Gee, I wonder if there's any connection ...

to the netting the of the rivers ??? Or to the lack of enforcement of the Boldt ruling??

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366900_gregoire13.html

How many more ways are the tribes going to find to walk all over this State!

Makes you wonder if Dino would have done the same?

Wonder if Gov. Gregoire ever has a problem getting a table.

Mf

We are up a river no matter who it is, the Commercials are in Dino's back pocket and the tribes are in Gregroir's...

Pony up, boys!

Anyone who would vote for Dino Rossi, and thinks that fish, fish habitat, and recreational fishing are important, is a f***** idiot.

Period.

Fish on...

Todd

Why????

Or at least pass the cool aid so I can feel good about a Gov who's signed every bill written by a tribe!

Because Dino, besides not being very bright, is a developer.

Period.

He's a member of the "Wise Use" community, which means "I think we should just f***** use this" community...

Fish on...

Todd

The only thing more retarded than voting for Rossi if you care at all about the fish, fishing, or fish habitat, is the "Sportsmen for Bush!" bumper stickers I still see around...

How can people who manage to peel off a sticker and put it on a vehicle that they presumably own be that stupid?

Fish on...

Todd

Gotta agree with Todd on this one...

If you are pro-natural resources you need to be in someone else's camp other than the Dino.

Weak Todd,
What about the 2000 crab pots in the "no commercial zone" of Lopez Sound that are there because the Gov. wont challange the tribes??? And that's straight from the Gammie's mouth. When the Gammie's can't stand her I have reason to question her leadership regarding fish matters.

Not going to argue that Dino's the answer but as an undecided aint nobody making a good argument for Gregior! Least of all herself.

Bumper sticker arguments don't work for me. Call Dino names if you want (after all aint every conservative "not very bright") but please make an argument for Gregior. Facts please!

Or pass the cool aid

Good stuff Todd I couldn't agree with you more.

Greg, Dino was my representative back in the day when I lived up on the Plateau, and I've had conversations with him, and the "ain't so bright" part is a very real and personal observation, not a partisan rant.

Gregoire has appointed a slew of fish friendly commissioners, and that has done more for fish and fishing than Dino would ever do, and the observations about Dino's disprespect for fish, fishing, and the environment are observed facts, not partisan bickering, either.

Most of the non-recreational-friendly politicos in this state happen to be Democrats, and they get my ire up just as fast as anyone else...again, it's not partisan, it's factual...but Dino will just make the situation worse, and you can take that to the bank.

Anytime you hear any politician say "wise use" when they are talking about the environment, that is code word for "rape and pillage"...and rape and pillage is what Dino is all about. Check on who his main contributors are...none of them have any respect for fish, fishing, or the environment, either.

Being an unreasonable partisan would be voting for Dino because you're a Republican sympathizer, and somehow deceiving yourself that it would be good for fish, fishing, or fish habitat.

Fish on...

Todd

It's Kool Aid. Only Fonzie can pass the cool aid.

Voting for Rossi is like vomiting in your underwear when you're drunk at the company Christmas party, and then pulling them up for a ride home in the care cab.

Damn...



Fish on...

Todd

Todd,
That’s better-

“Check on who his main contributors are.” That goes both ways I suppose. So one’s bought and paid for by developers and the other by tribes (and Gov unions)? That’s just great!

The way I see it is 30 years ago we could fish our choice of streams for spring steelhead and today what 1 or 2 rivers! 30 years of Democratic leadership in this State and their ain’t a whole lot to show for it! I know it’s complicated as PS’s population doubles about every 20 or 30 years and that rate isn’t slowing down any so I wish there was some way we could accommodate that without hurting our recreational interests? Just not sure Gov. Gregior has shown the leadership attributes to pull that off.

Still undecided………………

Fish4brains,
Thank you for your excellent contribution to this thread!

BroodBuster,

What is it you'd have Gregoire do, besides appointing sport and fish friendly candidates to the WDFW Commission, to demonstrate her committment to fish in WA state?

Please don't bring up tribal fishing. You've been around the block enough times here to know the state, let alone the gov, can't do anything about tribal fishing.

Bringing up where you could steelhead fish 30 years ago is almost as dumb. What did Gregoire have to do with the changes in steelhead fishing opportunity over the past 30 years? At least she was Director of the Department of Ecology during the only time in its existance that it wasn't known as the "department of apology."

Sg

I would be willing to bet that unchecked/semi out of control development and population growth have far more to do with the fisheries problems we have today than tribal fishing. The tribes are just more visible when they do stuff, especially to sports guys on the water all the time. Does anyone really think that an illegal net in the locks does more damage than all the houses built around the shores of lake Washington, Sammammish and on the plateau?

When deciding who to vote for I ask, who will be more likely to limit/plan the real problem, rampant development? Is it developer/BIAW stooge Rossi or Indian controlled Greggoire? At least the tribal administrations, if not individual tribal fishermen, have an incentive to insure that some resource continues to exist so they can continue to pursue their treaty rights. Not so with developers.

If I have to choose between a house 100ft back from the edge of the river or a net stretched from one side to the other.......I think I will go with the house. The fish would too, I am sure.
And anyone who thinks the bowing to every wish of the tribes and getting nothing in return is a good idea is an F-ing idiot. I love the crowd that blames everything on one group and gives the others a pass. those rose colored glasses you know. Those are always the same ones that scream the loudest too. I remember what my father told me years ago......Seldom is the loudest one in the room the smartest, even if they clame to be.

What if a fish had to chose between thousands of houses next to streams, rivers and lakes permanently eliminating most of its required habitat and a next across a stream blocking passage at some times? What if a fish had to chose between tens of thousands of culverts and dams permanently blocking its spawning passage or a next across the stream at some times? I think the same is true for logging, clearing and road building throwing silt into streams. It is a losing argument to assert that anything but habitat is the biggest issue facing salmon. And Rossi and his developer buddies are less likely to address the habitat issue in a way beneficial for fish.

I doubt anyone here is arguing for totally caving into the tribes. I would not want a free pass for the tribes. I would always like to see those tribal members who break the rules prosecuted. I would like to see the tribes play by the rules as written or better yet, remake the rules, but that wont happen with Boldt, we are never going to be able to change it. I would really like to see the tribes step up, use their casino money, and exercise their treaty rights by requiring habitat fixes to correct the stuff that has been so screwed up.

We all know that with the environ laws in place we are never going to see ten houses much less ten thousand built up on the rivers edge as was done in the past. Those days are over and thank God for that. The fear tactics of saying "Rossi and his developer buddies" is no better than the other side evoking 9/11 or the war on terror. And we all know how much your side likes that fear mongering. Dont follow suit with this.
The laws are in place to keep a minimal comercial impact if they are followed and held to the standard they were set for. If they are not then we take their license and send them to some jail time/fines. We need to address teh nets in our rivers and it should have been done with the casinos but wasn't. Then days ago we had another shot and what happened there, didn't do it again. Just caved and gave more gambling rights.
The gill netting during native runs is one of our biggest, if not the biggest problems facing our fish. No matter how many times you say it isn't so does not make it true. I was here when it started adn watched first hand the impact and I see it still today.

The whole reason the GOP is attacking her on her stance regarding Tribal issues is because the have no other leg to stand on.
They are trying to get the Rec. Anglers on the westside to turn against her...

...Since the Eastsiders and the Commercials are already in Dino's pocket from the get-go.

Its not like Republicans can say their policies work for anybody but the top 1%. We're experiencing that this very day.

how can you tell when a lawyer's lying?
either his lips are moving or fingers are typing...haha...

Well from the article, "Gov. Chris Gregoire is benefiting from more than $650,000 in campaign contributions from Indian tribes that hit the jackpot in 2005 when she killed a gambling compact potentially worth more than $140 million a year to the state." "The money would have been dedicated to projects of "mutual importance to the state and tribes" such as Puget Sound cleanup, salmon protection, culvert expansion and transportation projects." I suppose 140 million from tribal gambling earmarked for salmon and habitat projects would be a start.



Gov. Locke was able to put together an agreement where the tribes honored the "no commercial crabbing zones." (Back to Lopez Sound) The day she took office out come the pots! Imagine that!!!! There is a reason every Gammie I've talked to from Curlew to Forks dislike her! And to those who think I'm a conservative patsy I voted for Locke twice and would be thrilled to have the opportunity to vote for him a 3rd time.

I can fully understand folks concern that Rossi will allow development to run rampant. My dilemma is that from my Condo in Bothell up thru the Sky valley is nothing but development run rampant. Just like I would hope that Gregiore could use her influence with the tribes to improve habitat I would also hope that Rossi could use his influence with developers the same way. Unfortunately she has not shown one bit of leadership regarding growth. Tax, tax tax for nothing nothing nothing!

Still undecided-

p.s. I appreciate everyone's opinion!

Marsha, I don't ever "go after you", or anyone else...I just like to have a civil conversation, something that you are utterly unable to do with someone who is not lockstep with your faux 'centrist' position.

There's no explanation necessary, not that it's my job to explain Gregoire's actions, anyway...she wants a review of whether or not the requested spill regime actually helps fish, or just helps the cottage fish recovery industry you are so happy to complain about...sounds like you should be agreeing with her to me.

If you have a problem with her, bring it up with her.

Fish on...

Todd

Marsha,

Yet again you are mistaking me for someone who gives a rat's ass about what you think, especially when you feel the need to open your mouth and spout about stuff that doesn't concern you in the least.

What I was saying he was ignorant about was talking about "history" of the fisheries, and that "history" didn't include nets or commerical fishing, which it clearly did.

Fish on...

Todd

Really? You sure have a lot of crying and whining to do about whatever I write when I don't agree with your faux centrist BS opinions...

Fish on...

Todd

Aunty,
No need to defend me. I can handle it myself as I do know my facts.
Todd,
you can show your ignorance and call me ignorant but here is my point and was my point then. Culture is one thing, fine. But historically, the native americans did use nets but they were built of weaved cedar, pulled by cedar canoes. Not nylon drift nets pulled by jet boat. The nets were primarily used to herd fish though some were kill nets. They were at the longest 50 to 100 feet not hundreds of yards. The modern gillnet fishery has nothing to do with tradition and was a strickly european creation.
Similar point was taking big game. Recurve bow.....300 win mag.
Worse yet Casino gaming.......Hoop and pole or jacks.............becomes 5 star casinos with blackjack, poker and slots. Not quite teh historical way of doing it. Do I want them in hte stone age, no. But do I think they should build five star casinos because it was their tradition to play stick and hoop, that is a bit of a stretch if you are saying it is cultural. Poker, slots, blackjack, craps, and all the other games have nothing to do with native american "tradition". Thats the point and call it ignorant if you like but dont pretend your all knowing and the rest of us dont know what is going on. Now lets all be nice and move on. Sorry for teh dust up created.

I remember looking at tribal smokeshops 25 years ago and thinking that Indian tribes could buy a big chunk of territory back by exploiting our vices and adding liquor stores, gambling, and brothels. Three down, one to go!

They are going to have to outbid the Chinese and Arabs if they want more land.

WTF happened to Bikini Thursday?

Looks as if it was moved to a Moderator only page. The pics are still there, thanks guys!

Jerry has to be the coolest member of PP that has a gay character as his avitar pic.

Well... maybe BlueJay.

PSSSSSSST! "Viva Jueves!" thread. SSSHHHHHHHHH...........

Most of you folks on this thread crack me up.

Deals between State government and large organizations are done everyday. Influence peddling is as common a feature of our legislative and executive branches of government as rain in Forks. Big corporations have been getting tax breaks for a loooong time. When Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago, WA State about had a cow so they offered up something like a billion in tax cuts (over so many years) to them. Were you yelling for an investigation then? I doubt it. I suppose its OK for the CEO of some big a$$ corporation to get something for that $250k they contributed to XYZ's political campaign but surely we can't allow the same thing for them tribes... why, that's just un-American!

Here the tribes are "movin' on up" and getting the kinds of resources that get people's attention, and they cut themselves a big fat deal and all of the sudden...

INVESTIGATION needed.... them tribes are screwing us agian.

Right... most of you need to wake up and smell the java.

The tribes have figured out how the real world works and they are playing the game like the big boys play it... now you want to change the rules? Think about it.