Picture = 1,000 words.

Wonder what that smirk is about...

From the Winchester website............

"4/7/2009
Winchester Ammunition, like other ammunition manufacturers, has seen the demand for our products increase significantly since last fall. To meet that increased demand, our operations are running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Our team is literally working around the clock to make quality ammunition available for purchase. We remain absolutely committed to meeting the growing needs of our customers."

Fear sells...it's the NRA's favorite product.

Fish on...

Todd

"We remain absolutely committed to arming the extremely paranoid nuts"

Still no sightings of the gun grabbers?

stlhead-

I've come across some hush-hush inside news that Obama is gonna make a move against Maker's Mark (muslims aren't allowed to have alcohol). So much for your swine flu poison!

I'd better stock up so I can stay drunk, guns loaded, watching for the gun grabbers.

I've also heard turban's are the new tin foil....shhh.

I instantly thought of this - make sure you double up on your stock of everything

Todd and stlhead are the gun grabbers. They wait daily for their secret message to start grabbing to be broadcasted over NPR. Gun grabber cells!

they do always have something to say in any gun related thread....

Yup. One day I will have all of the guns and rule the world. And then there will be peace as long as you are obedient. And NPR is so passe. I get cell phone calls......the mission is code named The Bourne Obama.

+1

I don't want anyone's guns being grabbed by anyone, whether they be mine or Andy's...and just as much I don't like seeing the constant whining and crying by the gun nuts that someone's after their guns, especially when they clearly are not...

The fear mongering is the most detrimental part of the whole story...and it is always coming from the same group of folks, the ones who think we're going to become socialists, that Obama is a Muslim, and that Saddam Hussein actually had WMD's...idiots, all of them.

The NRA preys on those folks, and if it wasn't for fear the NRA wouldn't have anything to sell at all.

At least it's good for the economy that all the fear mongers and whiners are running out to stock up on guns and ammo for the forthcoming gun grab fantasy.

Fish on...

Todd

the only ones talking about gun grabbing are you and stlhead...dogfish just put up a funny picture...pull yer head out

doobie, drop the water pipe and read the eight page "guns are about to be grabbed by the Muslim President of the Socialist State of America" thread...

Fish on...

Todd

Toad!!

And you wonder why people don't take your opinions too seriously.

The whole "increased sale of guns and ammo" is directly related to nutjobs thinking the gubment is about to take their guns. You really think the idea of "gun grabbing" is something being furthered by the "liberals"?

It's the same as the other mantra that the GOP is currently spewing "Obama has raised your taxes". It's from the Rove handbook of political strategy....the infinite loop of repeating untruths often enough and they become truths in the minds of some.

step 1: Repeat GOP party message
step 2: If asked for facts perform step 1

Yes, Aunty, he wants to go around take them from you. That is what he wants. In fact, he would "LOVE" that.

I'm not exactly sure what "claims" I made? I guess I could find 3 from my last post:

1. (Most) people don't seem to value your opinions.
2. Increased gun/ammo sales is related to fear that the ability to make those purchases will fail to be an option.
3. Stocking up is not being done because "liberals" are talking about it.

This is why I barely read the dark side and post here even less.

Exactly!!

They knew this would happen from experiences gained during the Clinton years. So why would they do it again? The answer comes from thinking globaly.

As I suspected; Obama is really no different than any other politician that has lead this country. First clue was the increased troop level effort in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Hmmmmmm were already stretched pretty thin around the world.

Our economy is in the toilet.

World opinion of the US is low.

Taking these three things into consideration; it seems we could be seen as vulnerable. How do you send a message loud and clear to those who might use this vulnerability against us?


Easy! Threaten gun legislation and the public will arm themselves to the f@$#ing teeth. We would have the best insurgancy the world has ever seen. You know 2nd amendment, militias and what not.

True. They allow everyone the honor of seeing my typed response!

Actually, I consider this our bonding time of the year Aunty. We do share the common love for spot prawns. Together, with spot prawns, we 'll fix the world!

And, if it makes you feel any better, I own multiple guns. I also plan ahead so ammo shortages aren't exactly an issue for me.

Towlie: Maybe if I just got a little bit high...

Yuppers.....


Idiots, all of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i87cZ3Og6ts

While i agree that one single presidency wont drive us to full blown socialism... 44 presidencies have us well on our way...

Thinking back to the Clinton era when the assault weapon ban was enacted, did the government issue an edict that all firearms of a particular list be turned in to some central agency? I don't recall.

Or did anyone here have a government person show up at their house to take any firearm away because of the AWB?

Who was the last president to order that a particular weapon be confiscated from all US citizens?

I have SAM's in the backyard for black helicopters.

If not fer dem dar NRA folks thed a dun swept in like a pole cat on possum tail by gum!

That's right! NO thinking allowed, just liberal grabbing of my gun!!!

So...






...when's this 'Sharia Law' supposed to kick in, anyway?

It already kicked in back in November...they just haven't got around to grabbing our guns or making us wear beards or making women go around barefoot and not being allowed to drive yet.

Join the NRA, buy twenty-two new guns, and enough ammo to last you until at least 2056...by then the End Times should have passed and there won't be any need for a gun anymore.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. It would be funny if there weren't so many whackjobs that think everything I just wrote in this post is true.

Was that buy a new .22 or buy 22 of anything?

Besides, what sort of a fawkin half-wit would think that a single inbred hillbilly with a rifle would stop the combined forces of the UN backed with the firepower of the Taliban?

Oh that's right... They believe that crap they saw watching Red Dawn.

The more dum-fawks that lock themselves in bunkers in the hills until they run out of air, the better America becomes.

Here comes that Darwin's Theory like a big bitch slap that they still presume to be heresy...

Oh and Hankster, you don't fish. Go find a new board to troll.

+2

When did you people learn to count?

On the stock piling of guns issue....when it comes down to it....if the S*** did hit the fan there will be plenty of free guns lying around next to dead morons.

That's a fine example of twisting words. All you get from that is "all gun owners are morons"?

IMO, there would be plenty of dead people lying around who should never have owned a gun in the first place along side their dead neighbors who were killed by friendly fire....most likely shot in the back.

Aunty-

This is not one of your well thought out, factual responses. Do you have shrimp fever?

First Off

Hankster +3

Secondly, who are you to decide who should and should not own a gun. Secondly most of the gun owners I know are very proficient with there weapons and have basic safety knowledge and know the responsibilities owning a gun entails. The only people I really worry about with a gun in their hand is dumbfuk liberals who have a token gun so that they can say I own guns but am still pro guncontrol.

I live in one of the most liberal neighborhoods in Seattle and doubt that any of my neighbors are liberal gun owners just to say they own a gun. I like this. If the END comes as the bullet buyers are thinking I could fend these fawkers off with a stick.
That said I've got a few guns ready.
Stick first though.

pistol whipping can also be fun.

One shot.
668 yards away.
Right through the vitals.




Now that's proper gun control.

EEEEEEWWWWWWW!!!!! ICKY!!!!!!!!

Especially impressive considering it was all done without a penis.

Just kidding, Sal. I wouldn't want you to shoot me.

That's the longest shot I've attempted.
Calm morning, Laser ranged , no wind, broadside and a rock solid prone rest.
I am a lot like you Stam that I'm not a gun nut either.

I actually find sneaking close and making a deadly shot with a well placed arrow to be much more of a rush.
However the conversation isn't bow control.
Not yet at least.

I'd be slammed by 2A nuts in that I find gun ownership by inner city youths a little disturbing.

If you were in fully automatic mode you weren't too accurate.

"Secondly, who are you to decide who should and should not own a gun."

I can say without a doubt that potential mass campus killers should not own a gun. Unfortunately we have no proper way of predetermining who will snap.
So, I am left with my own opinion that the extreme paranoid, worried about somebody coming to get their guns, running out and stockpiling weapons and ammo should not own guns. I wish I were "the decider".

You're NOT so STFU.......

+1

Better have an extra hockey stick Dave. There are a lot of Libs in your area . . . . .

subject to opinion....i would take the last two terms over the current one any day

Don't make me hide your stash again son.

I've got plenty of hockey sticks. Bring em on.
I also just learned that I have an attack dog. TBig came over about a week ago and my pup barked and growled for the first time. Strange.

Isn't this about turkey time in LaConner?

"Don't look at me... I voted for Kerry. If I had a choice between Bush and Stlhead, I'd vote for Bush again in a heartbeat.

Bush got elected. Stlhead just wants the power to make decisions based on what again??? A really biased, half assed opinion."

Should someone diagnosed with early onset Altzheimers lose their weapons? Especially if that someone has a major arsenal? AM you've been acting pretty peculiar lately.

All the frothing at the mouth. Better run out and stock up on some more makes you feel good, "my precious", ammo tonight. The gun grabbers will show when you least expect them. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Yeah... but since you live your life in a drug-addled right-wing stupor... your opinion don't count for much dewb.

Less than half of you americans that voted, voted for bush each time. So much for the logic behind voting.

Which election are you talking about AM? Certainly not his first term. memory slipping? Should we get your guns?

KK...STFU

"Nice try to deflect. Obama won and you've been a whiney biatch ever since, because you don't have a president to hate."

Wow. Talk about deflection. Sober up and tomorrow re-read your posts. Twist and spin. I have no problem with this pres so far. Big problem with the past as you sometimes admit also having. Big problem with the wingnuts who started blaming the current pres before he even took the oath. And if he ends up pushing gun control legislation then maybe the gun nuts can say I told you so but until then they are just plain old gun nut nattering nabobs....and you've joined the cult.

I'm thinking dueling pistols.

No....dueling fully automatic AK 47's with live grenades as backup.

Gun control defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

WRO, Salem OR, check.......I'm building a list for the gun grabbers. Should be here soon.

I feel so much love in this thread!!! YAY!!!!

One can apply for ownership of guns in our country. Yes, the StG44 is for my son. His name is Harry? Why do you try to hurt EnglishPete so when you know he knows you have the hots for him!?!

"Hey, you're the hater that keeps making outrageous statements about people with guns shooting their neighbors in the back. You have to be one angry liberal idiot to make the statements you make. Maybe you're the one who needs to refresh your faulty memory."

nope. I said people who shouldn't be qualified to own guns shooting their neighbors accidently in the back when the [censored] hit's the fan. You came up with your own translation. Mine is that NO, HELL NO, do I feel every idiot in America is qualified to own firearms. We've all seen plenty of people who are obviously not playing with a full deck and shouldn't be armed....and when people start foaming at the mouth and stocking up for armegedon, although I am not a psychiatrist, I'd call that extreme paranoia which is a psychosis and I'm sure all would agree we'd like to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally unstable people.

EP, didn't you have two sons? I thought your pistol only fired one shot? Are you sure the other one is yours?

Must be a slow melt this spring because a lot of people appear to be slippin'.

"In your opinion"

Actually I said "in my opinion". Still not quite sure what your opinion is but it sounds similar to the GOP party line right now which is disagree with everything, spin what you can and offer nothing of substance. Is that all ya got AM?

Aunty-

Why do you persist with this nonsense? When we previously debated this issue, I provided factual evidence that I was twice as likely to be killed during a criminal act in your country as opposed to mine. If you are unable to refrain from telling "the big lie" I will have to put you down with JKook as a subscriber to Völkischer Beobachter.

And before you reply with "you Brits don't report the actual crimes that occur in your country," I can make the same retort about the USA. Let us see some REAL numbers on rape, pedophilia, incest, armed robbery, etcetera in the USA.

Finally, the boldened type above is true in this respect - violence will never go away. However, we do not have gun murder/violence in our country like you do in yours.

Your recent posts make me believe that either caveman or brewer has gotten ahold of your password.

Uh-oh, more blood in the water.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/21/205139.shtml

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21346/Crime-Rate-Lower-United-States-Canada-Than-Britain.aspx

E P,

In a loud Coughing voice... [censored]. while there might be a bigger chance of being killed in a violent crime in the US, your chances of being involved in a violent crime are twice as high in the UK.

Persistent in her spin isn't she. AM knows full well the ongoing debate/rehash which is not about my wanting guns banned but wanting those who are out stocking up out of fear exposed for what they are. Same mass histeria that got us into a wrong war. Now even if the "assault weapon ban" were reinstated why are they stocking up on pistols?
Anyone in their right mind believe all guns will be banned?

As far as England versus the US I'm willing to bet people report crimes at a higher rate than here in the US especially where crime is highest in our inner city problem areas. You don't bring the cops in if you want to survive.

are all of your opinions based on guesses?

They have the same inner city problems we have..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/6383933.stm

"are all of your opinions based on guesses?"

Prove me wrong. It's what is NOT accounted for in the polls yet a huge problem for law enforcement having people come forward.

"The largest number of gangs are said to be in Hackney, east London (22 gangs); Enfield in north London (13); Lambeth and Merton in south London (12 gangs each); Waltham Forest in north east London (11) and Brent in north west London (11).

Gangs were found to have around 20 to 30 members, and to commit crimes in smaller groups of three to six. "

Whereas direct from the FBI:

"About 20,000 violent street gangs, motorcycle gangs, and prison gangs with approximately 1 million members are criminally active in the U.S. today. Many are sophisticated and well organized; all use violence to control neighborhoods and boost their illegal money-making activities, which include drug trafficking, robbery, theft, fraud, extortion, prostitution rings, and gun trafficking. Here, you'll find more on the threats posed by gangs, on how you can help spot and prevent gang activity, and on how we're redoubling our efforts to disrupt and dismantle them through intelligence-driven investigations and new initiatives and partnerships."

So you compare the total number of gangs in London to the total number of gangs in the U.S.A.?

Good point. his first link specified the entire UK of which 3/4's are in their cities. Here's from 2002:

"Alarming figures suggest there are now as many as 30,000 gang members across England and Wales and the numbers are rising rapidly. The number of gang members aged under 16 has doubled in the past year and nearly half of all gang murders committed with firearms now involve victims under the age of 18. "

Anyway, so AM or Willamette or whomever, please show me where I advocated banning all firearms or revoking the second ammendment.

And Willamette, what does the UK have to do with anything I've posted?

Still no gun grabbers. Maybe they are at Todds.

No Hankster, you can't possibly fish. You spend all day every day posting here on this BBS between sun up and sun down. So maybe you should STFU and go fish for once.

Furthermore: You've been the one pissing ad moaning ever since that guy who's picture you jack off to every night lost the election last November. Not Me.

PS I'm still waiting for that Sharia Law you promised us.

bitter libs are funny....you crack me up

WilldamitLiverScofflaw-

I will make this very simple for you:

For the years 2005/2006, there were 746 murders in England and Wales. 50 murders were by gun.

Please compare both these numbers to just the number of homicides commited yearly in your country by gun. Next, compare them to all the homicides commited in your country.

And you need not worry about the crime rate of our country as we do not want you here for any reason.

Feel free to peruse the following link for my source material:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb0207.pdf

The lame assumptions are yours AM. You ASSume I am advocating gun control. You ASSume I am spreading fear or maybe you yourself are scared?

"Any time there is a probablility that something consumer related is no longer going to be available, folks run out and buy it up."

You said it yourself. This is the fear you speak of. Simply pointing it out as fear (baseless fear) seems to get you confused. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm done with your spin.

Still no gun grabbers.

[quote=AuntyMIf Todd posted that there was a close out sale on Rvrfshr's most popular product and no more would be available, do you think these guys here wouldn't try and purchase every single one he had???

You need to get a fricken clue, since you obviously need one. You're the one living and breathing irrational fear.

[/quote]

worms, jigs, spoons and spinners don't kill people - not even in the anrchist climate of the UK.

wow, you guys are barbaric....

Thankfully, we are not Hanna-Barberic.

GODDAMMIT!!! WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO GRAB MY GUN??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how did you know that was my favorite cartoon???

Dewbson-

EVERYBODY knows what scooby snacks are!!!

No one will grab your gun Richard. You will be expected to lawfuly turn it in to the police.

Last I checked I wasn't even referring to you with the UK post, it was in response to English Pete. You self absorbed liberals are always the same, its always about you and how you've been injustly attacked or victimized.

Who really knows what you want, you've alluded to the fact that you'd like to be the decider of who can and can't own guns. (with strong alluding that any concerned gun owner is crazy, so I'd guess you'd be Libs only.. Which is fine considering that if many of them owned a gun they'd possibly feel a little more manly and quit mensturating so much) So I guess I'd your pro gun control, not to necessarily repealing the second amendment level, but with the feeling that the goverment knows better than the avg joe. If you look at where many European nations have gone (which fuckheads like you look up to so much) it wouldn't be a stretch to assume you'd be in favor massive gun control measures.

Hey you dolt your reply was to my text. You reps are always getting your foot caught.

One more time and I'll type slower this time:

A) i was asked who made you the decider so i said "I wish I were the decider". If I were I would start with drugs not guns though.

B) "with strong alluding that any concerned gun owner is crazy"
More BS spin. Those out there panicing about gun grabbers are crazy. Not this former gun owner former hunter. My deceased father in laws guns are being given to me soon though. Curious what he has but not a nut about it like some. He was a retired major in the army and a combat vet of three wars and I'm betting he didn't feel the need for any assault style weapons around the house.

C) "I guess I'd your pro gun control"
learn to spell and guessed wrong didn't you? Dolt!

So bottom line: an idiot like you proves my argument. You make wild assumptions that aren't there. You live in irrational fear. All of which point to mental instabilities and those are the very people most would agree shouldn't own firearms. That's why I added you to the gun grabber list. Should be there soon.

irie's just pissed cause when the other kids went out to play ball they didn't invite him.

Wilmagiverpoutsquaw-

I see that you have been unable to further impugn the British people in light of my facts. Perhaps you would prefer a game of tic-tac-toe? Based on the illiteracy of your last post (to stlhead), you may be unfamiliar with the scribbles that appear before you now. It's the game with the "x" and "o" scribbles. I'm sure your interpreter will explain with pictures.

Hey Fuko,

First off, EP and AM brought started the UK, portion. Then I replied, then you, then me.. Then you became the victim.

A) I hope your wish doesn't come true.

B) Congrats, I could care less what your FIL thinks. I like my AR, never felt it necessary for home protection though. Fun to shoot, accurate, and relatively cheap on ammo. I'd guess if you asked the Austrailians 25 years ago if there guns were going have to be turned in, they'd have said no too. Luckily history never repeats itself.

C) If you want to point out an error (which was obivious on my part and I should have caught it) atleast do it correctly. Failure to Proof read or Grammatical error would have been correct Douche bag.

Unfortunately for me, all of my guns were lost in a bunker collapse last year.

So tell me, have murder and violent crime rates fallen since the parliment took away most of the average citizens right to own guns? How about simple crime rates, i.e. B&E's, armed robbery, assaults with a deadly weapon? Just wondering since most literature out there seems to says that your chances of being involved in violent crime are significantly higher in Great britan than evil gun infested USA.

As Immigrant Crime Rises In Britain, The UK Government Is Trying To Ban Not Guns, But Knives

By Brenda Walker

In a culture where the normal instinct of self-defense has been largely depressed by decades of liberal peacenik propaganda, mere gun grabbing (as Washington is now gearing up) will not suffice. British peace extremists may have imagined that depriving the people of firearms would ensure the end of violence in society, but something else happened on the rainbow road to kumbaya—the confiscation of guns from the British people over several decades did not result in perfect peacefulness.

Instead, the place of guns in violent crime has been replaced by knives in another brilliant example of failed social engineering from the left. British media is full of sensational headlines on the topic, e.g. Revealed: The truth about knife crime—it has soared by 35 per cent in some parts of Britain. The Daily Telegraph reported 400 victims of knife crimes each week in 2007. A bad guy so equipped is sometimes characterized as "knifeman" (like a gunman in a parallel social universe). Justice Minister Jack Straw remarked recently that improved statistics "underline our determination to tackle the scourge of knife crime."

In 2006, police offered an amnesty so people could turn in their... knives. The Home Secretary announced that "carrying knives on the street will not be tolerated." A photo from the campaign shows a few machetes and military-style knives collected, which were vaguely threatening in appearance.

Were Britons also expected to clear out anything pointy and sharp from their kitchen drawers? Perhaps the "bad" knives of the UK are like "assault" guns in this country, which are basic semi-automatics but with styling that frightens anti-gun legislators (like hypocrite Sen Dianne Feinstein, who has a permit to carry).

Of course, a knife is not an "equalizer" the way a gun is. Small persons can successfully defend themselves against much larger attackers with a firearm in hand. With knives, that is not necessarily the case.

Yes, the anti-knife arguments sound annoyingly like anti-gun rhetoric, and the propaganda is relentless...

Prime Minister Gordon Brown had strong statements last year about the need for Britain to reject self-defense as an unacceptable urge (rather than a basic human right):

'Young people are thinking it's acceptable, fashionable, necessary for them to protect themselves, to carry a knife,' said Brown who called for parents and community leaders to help get across the message that carrying a knife put people at greater danger of violence than not carrying one. Just like we made guns unacceptable, we should make knives unacceptable.

'You need, not just young people but parents and other people to say that knives in Britain, like guns, like bullying, like racism, all these things are unacceptable.' [...]

'There are certain boundaries in a decent society you don't cross and these boundaries are cultural. In America it is acceptable for many people to carry guns, it's not in Britain. We've got to make it as unacceptable to carry knives. Most decent people would want to do that and I think what you will see over the next few months is this sort of campaign, which is led not just by government but people in the country, to say "get knives off our streets".' [Rise up to curb knife culture, PM urges at book festival, Guardian, August 10, 2008].

Right, only primitive Americans have enough self-respect to carry firearms.

And after all the guns and knives have been removed from Britain, then what? Will scissors be next? What about screwdrivers, saws and cork-screws? (The tool section of hardware stores provides a broad array of possible weapons, incidentally.) At what point will Brown's "decent society" be deemed sufficiently pacified? It is difficult to understand how a nation is supposed to benefit when its people are unable to defend their lives and homes.

An old saying about guns might be revised like this: "When knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives." Either way, it means that disarming the law-abiding citizenry makes life a lot easier for would-be criminals.

Remarkably, a British retail chain has announced it will no longer sell knives:

"The East of England Co-operative Society said it will withdraw knives from sale in its 135 supermarkets and food stores and five petrol forecourt shops.

It hopes the decision will reduce the risk of knives "falling into the wrong hands" in the communities its stores serve." [Co-op announces ban on knives , by Anthony Bond, East Anglia Daily Times, March 9, 2009].

Apparently people are supposed to eat gruel and hand over any valuables to the first robber who happens by. If I were a criminal, I would certainly make my way immediately to the easy pickings of East Anglia.

The criminal element, whether diverse or home-grown, are often cowardly types who prefer victims who do not have the wherewithal to fight back.

Or gangsters may rely on having a huge numerical advantage, like the case of red-haired Henry Webster, 15, who was nearly killed in a savage attack by 13 "Asians" (UK MSM-speak for Muslims), who fractured his skull with a claw hammer:

"The attackers were sentenced to between eight months and eight years last year, but they would likely have got longer if the attack had been proven to be racist. [...]

Mrs Webster, 44, also believes the assault—by a gang calling themselves the Asian Invaders—was racist and the result of simmering tensions at the school.

She said: 'I have fought hard to find out all the facts. It has been an excruciating wait. The fact is that the attack on my son was a racial one.

'There have been numerous similar attacks before but nothing was ever done. I feel my son was badly failed by a school that believes racism is only something that is carried out by white pupils.'" [Boy's fight to prove attack by Asian gang was racist, Daily Mail, Feb 23, 2009]

The whole thing stinks of fear on the part of authorities who don't want Muslim riots in their town. Mrs. Webster described a "culture of timidity" among teachers at the school who fear that disciplining young Muslim gangsters would bring accusations of racism.

In addition, the weak sentences, ranging from a few months to eight years, don't send a message of serious punishment for a crime that caused permanent brain injury to young Henry.

Sadly, the Websters are one family who now find it difficult to celebrate diversity.

And no matter whether the violent crime is done with a knife or a hammer or an illegal firearm, foreigners do more than their share, as reported in 2008 by the Telegraph: One murder in five is committed by a foreigner.

"One murder in five in England and Wales is committed by a foreigner, police figures released to The Sunday Telegraph show. [...]

Scotland Yard said half of the organised crime gangs in London were "ethnic"—bound by a common language or homeland. The most common nationalities for foreign killers were Pakistani, Indian and Jamaican. "

The article notes further that the foreign-born account for just six percent of the British population (for now).

However, the immigration spigot remains turned on high despite all the problems, even though England is already more densely populated than the Netherlands, which used to be Europe's most crowded country. In fact, the United Nations forecasts that the UK will surpass Germany as having the largest population in the EU by 2050. So Britain will be incredibly crowded as well as dangerously diverse.

On March 7, the Daily Telegraph described the upward trend of criminal activity by the non-British: Crime by foreigners doubles in five years.

"Records disclosed by 10 police forces reveal a 120 per cent rise in the number of non-Britons arrested, charged or convicted of offences between 2003 and 2008.

And figures from 20 forces, covering more than half the population of England and Wales, show that foreigners committed or were accused of more than 70,000 offences last year – pointing to a nationwide total of well over 100,000 offences if all 43 forces had provided figures. [...]

Sir Andrew Green, chairman of Migrationwatch, said: "These statistics are partial but they confirm a great deal of anecdotal evidence. I have lost count of the number of magistrates who have told me privately of their concerns about the high proportion of cases coming before them which involve immigrants." "

The article mentions that the statistics were obtained through the UK Freedom of Information Act, strongly suggesting that the government doesn't want the people to know how permissive immigration has made their country far more hazardous, crime-wise.

The British example shows how far the liberal nanny-staters will go to enforce their idea of the ideal society by disarming and thereby endangering honest citizens who merely want to defend their lives and property. And it's not just loony left extremists proposing fanciful pacificism as a basis for public policy, but the current Prime Minister. Doubly alarming is how the people don't seem to mind being treated like children, incapable of managing sharp objects.

Will a black market in cutlery grow up on the island if more stores refuse to stock knives? The mind reels with the absurdity of a country so infantilized that everyday knives are considered too dangerous for the pubic.

Meanwhile, many in Obama's Washington are probably envious of the road taken by Britain. Attorney General Eric Holder has moved to curtail the Second Amendment because he believes Mexico's complaints that many guns used by drug cartel criminals come from the United States. There has been a media campaign on that talking point over the last couple weeks which serves two purposes. One, the presence of American guns will be part of Presidente Calderon's future excuse for his failure in Mexico's drug war. Two, it serves as an opening gambit for Obama's long-term anti-gun strategy. We can't let it happen.

The rapid British slide to infantile nanny-statism should be a galvanizing reminder that gun rights are human rights, and must be defended as passionately as borders and sovereignty.

Brenda Walker (email her) lives in Northern California and publishes two websites, LimitsToGrowth.org and ImmigrationsHumanCost.org. A great admirer of Theodore Roosevelt, she agrees with his sentiment, "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."

Looks like I have created a sufficient Shitestorm. My work here is done.

Yup.

TFF

DillDickfartloaf-

Yes, murder went down. Too bad you were not in the bunker collapse previously mentioned. 746 murders einstein, in the whole country no less. Just keep sucking your thumb, rocking back and forth.

TLGP

DillDickfartloaf-

Yes, murder went down. Too bad you were not in the bunker collapse previously mentioned. 746 murders einstein, in the whole country no less. Just keep sucking your thumb, rocking back and forth. [/quote]

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0347.htm

The failure of this general disarmament to stem, or even slow, armed and violent crime could not be more blatant. According to a recent UN study, England and Wales have the highest crime rate and worst record for "very serious" offences of the 18 industrial countries surveyed.

But would allowing law-abiding people to "have arms for their defence", as the 1689 English Bill of Rights promised, increase violence? Would Britain be following America's bad example?


The 'wild west' image is out of date
Old stereotypes die hard and the vision of Britain as a peaceable kingdom, America as "the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic" is out of date. It is true that in contrast to Britain's tight gun restrictions, half of American households have firearms, and 33 states now permit law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons.

But despite, or because, of this, violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America's for every major violent crime except murder and rape.

You are now six times more likely to be mugged in London than New York. Why? Because as common law appreciated, not only does an armed individual have the ability to protect himself or herself but criminals are less likely to attack them. They help keep the peace. A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England.


Concealed weapon can be carried in 33 states
Much is made of the higher American rate for murder. That is true and has been for some time. But as the Office of Health Economics in London found, not weapons availability, but "particular cultural factors" are to blame.

A study comparing New York and London over 200 years found the New York homicide rate consistently five times the London rate, although for most of that period residents of both cities had unrestricted access to firearms.

When guns were available in England they were seldom used in crime. A government study for 1890-1892 found an average of one handgun homicide a year in a population of 30 million. But murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as "in startling free-fall" and British rates as of October 2002 the highest for 100 years the two are on a path to converge.

From the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm


So EP, You are correct murder and rape rates are lower (although rising) than the US. All other crime rates are up. That being said I'll take my chances with the murder rate, to avoid being mugged or having my house robbed while I'm still in it England.

BTW, where did you get your 746 figure, I can't seem to find it anywhere. (are you getting it confused with the number of naked underage boy pics you have on your computer?)

Dear Mr. Hankster-

Yes, the terrorist killings are included. Therefore, the murder rate is actually less than posted when you reclassify crime versus terrorist murder. However, dead people are still dead. Please refer to the previous link to The Home Office I posted. Also, much of the info provided by my foils indicate that much of the increase in crime over here is due to property crime, namely car theft and burglary. Additionally, most assault crimes are perpetrated by poor on poor, as evidenced by Mr. stlhead previously in this thread.

I would like to point out to Aunty and PondscumHoffbrau that while you may be preoccupied with the crime rate of the UK, your Bush administration and your Wall Street have stolen your entire middle class for the next two, three, maybe four generations. Who do you think has the bigger crime problem? While we are looking into banning steak knives, you are incorporating government into every level of your existence. Nice job people.

"you are incorporating government into every level of your existence."


We still have a long way to go to catch up with England.

May 1, 2009...11:11am.

After being gone fishing for a month, I returned home late last night to find that none of my guns had been grabbed...yet. There's still almost four years for it to happen.

You "gun grab panic folk" go ahead and hold your breaths until it happens...I'll pass on it, just as I'll pass on the other mass hysteria topics of the day, like Swine Flu.

Fish on...

Todd

Englishmuffintopbob---Unfortunately in the U.S there is a party of liberal thumbsuckers that need to incorporate government into every facet of their miserable lives. They are sheep too scared to fend for themselves and unable to protect themselves they NEED the gov't because if they left their chitstrewn pastures (aka cul-de-sacs and housing developements) they would find out how woefully inadequate they are and death would be their savior.

This last November they got their wish and elected a president based on his skin color and remarkable speeches of a social oneness that surely warms the empty bowels of the sheep.... all the while he is expanding gov't at litespeed.

Luckily we haven't been to depths of social destruction that your chithole country has but we are well on our way thanks to the Democrats.

Good job people.

This thread is like a sh1t churner.

Blows&SlurpsGays-

Not only are you a sad little man, it is plain that you are a racist. And I thought your level of depravity ended with your wife crapping on you from my desk, you fecal freak. You ultra-right (untra?) types really are the most deviant sex fiends. You are only running from your true self, so embrace your inner Larry Craig.

Todd! You terrible, terrible person!!! Why did you get my hopes so high and now no one will grab my gun??? Shame on you

"expanding gov't at litespeed."

Say it ain't so? Faster than GW who led the most expansion of our government since the New Deal? Wow. This I gotta see. Couldn't think it could get bigger thanks to "The Worst President Of All Time".

But wait, there's more! The GOP, in a bold move, announced today that they are backing the swine flu as it only kills potential illegal immigrants and is rumored to only infect unemployed Americans, solving three problems at once (killing off the people who aren't working and are sucking on the government teet).

This thread is GOLDEN !

A Tourist walked into a Chinese curio shop in San Francisco. While looking around at the exotic merchandise, he noticed a very lifelike, life-sized, bronze statue of a rat. It had no price tag, but was so incredibly striking the tourist decided he must have it. He took it to the old shop owner and asked, "How much for the bronze rat?"

"Ahhh, you have chosen wisely! It is $12 for the rat, $100 for the story," said the wise old Chinaman.

The tourist quickly pulled out twelve dollars. "I'll just take the rat, you can keep the story".

As he walked down the street carrying his bronze rat, the tourist noticed that a few real rats had crawled out of the alleys and sewers and had begun following him down the street. This was a bit disconcerting so he began walking faster.

A couple blocks later he looked behind him and saw to his horror the herd of rats

behind him had grown to hundreds, and they began squealing.

Sweating now, the tourist began to trot toward the Bay. Again, after a couple blocks, he looked around only to discover that the rats now numbered in the MILLIONS, and were squealing and coming toward him faster and faster.

Terrified, he ran to the edge of the Bay and threw the bronze rat as far as he could into the Bay.

Amazingly, the millions of rats all jumped into the Bay after the bronze rat, and were all drowned.

The man walked back to the curio shop in Chinatown.

"Ahhh," said the owner, "You have come back for story?"

"No sir," said the man, "I came back to see if you have a bronze Democrat."

Let's all puke for peace.

We had close to 17,000 murders in the US for 2007, so the brits still look pretty good numbers wise.

And careful about the wacko stuff, you live in SF (which is wacko enough) right across the bay from the People's Democratic State of Berkley. Just say yes to rent control

Don't be talkin' 'bout my hidey-holes...yer one of the few RWWJ's I know who hasn't turned all Larry Craig

Fish on...

Todd

OK...I went and checked, since I've been gone for about three hours...still all there.

Whew.

Fish on...

Todd

Moi Aussi!

I can see it now...a jackbooted thug comes up to KK's house, lookin' to be grabbin' some guns...KK reaches for his shooting iron, and accidentally tips over his glass of merlot, right into the open cover of his Peaches & Herb's Greatest Hits CD.

KK grabs his Sham-Wow out of the kitchen cupboard and dabs at the CD while humming "Reunited", the snub nosed .22 with pearl handles temporarily forgotten on the hallway sidetable.

The thugs rush in to find KK snuffling over the liner notes, which are now stained a pretty shade of dark pink, but no longer readable.

Sad.

After taking his Lady Pea Shooter, the thugs then proceed to the kitchen to start in on the knives.

"Hey!" shouts KK, "I've got some friends coming over to play Pictionary (tm) tonight, how can I serve the brie without a knife?"

The thugs are so overcome by this desperate man crying over Peaches & Herb and a brie knife that they take his corkscrew, too.

This tips KK over the edge, and he falls to the floor muttering incomprehensibly about "socialism" and "muslims" and "damn Sharia Law!".

One of the thugs makes to kick him in the ass, but the other thug says "Come on, man! Haven't we ruint his life up enough for one night?"

They light out, probably to MagicFly's house to take his wrist rocket and boomerang.

At least...that's how I'm seein' it in my mind.

Fish on...

Todd

I don't drink Busch Light.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. As a matter of fact, I've got a leftover Busch Tall Boy in my hand right now

Wr's yes, Br's no....lol

Pretty funny Todd....enjoyed your little note today as well...

Mf

You mean the love note I got while out fishing? I should post that one up on the main board!

Fish on...

Todd

Yep that would be the one.... lol

Mf

Todd-

I still got my guns, how about you? Surf's up!

I ride all the big waves on my gun brah! Why are people stocking up on them? And why does this guy Todd keep checking on his?

Still there...either they've been grabbed so stealthily that they're still there, or they haven't been grabbed at all yet.

I'm going with "haven't been grabbed at all yet".

Any of you chicken little Nancy boys had Obama come and take your irons yet?

Yeah...that's what I thought. Better go buy about ten more, though, just in case.

Fish on...

Todd

Why is it that I just recently found 'em in 18-packs?

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our street will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolf Hitler, 1935

Now I'm confused...are we Socialists or Fascists?

Fish on...

Todd

a little bit of both

I think I'll just figure it out the old-fashioned way...I'll listen to Rush and watch FauxNews today, and they'll tell me what to think.

Far less taxing that way, and I can get back to the celebration over banning gay marriage in California, and hating the new Supreme Court nominee.

Fish on...

Todd

There not mutually Exclusive, so heck we could be both!

Just head to a national park. You'll be safe from the gun grabbers there.

I'm voting for fascist. Check out this excerpt from wikipedia about "Military industrial complex":

"A similar thesis was originally expressed by Daniel Guérin, in his 1936 book Fascism and Big Business, about the fascist government support to heavy industry. It can be defined as, “an informal and changing coalition of groups with vested psychological, moral, and material interests in the continuous development and maintenance of high levels of weaponry, in preservation of colonial markets and in military-strategic conceptions of internal affairs."

Uuuuhhh, Todd - can I get a time check on the weapons?

Mike, whenever the Republi-parrots on this site kept calling the Islamic terrorists "Islamo-Fascists", I brought up the definition of "fascism" repeatedly...not surprisingly, it seems that the great majority had no idea what it meant, but kept hearing Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and George Bush say it, so were just parroting it to sound cool, or tough, or whatever it is they like to sound like when being DittoHeads.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd-

still looking for that time check on the guns.

Got guns?

Yeah...still got'em...maybe the gun grabbers lost the files.

Maybe I'm just not concerned enough about the economy to go out and waste a bunch of money buying more and squirrelling them away in holes and false floors.

Maybe they're just not out grabbing guns.

Who knows?

Fish on...

Todd

The latest supreme court nominee feels that the 2nd amendment does not apply to the States.

Too bad she's not an "activist judge" like the ones who found, with no words whatsoever to support it in the Constitution, that individuals carry a 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

I hate those damn activist judges...where were all you RWWJ's when that was going down?

Oh...that's right...you don't mind activist judges legislating from the bench when it's in favor of something you love...especially guns.

Fish on...

Todd

SCOTUS got another one wrong....

I didn't say individuals, I said States.

Todd's in a full blown Lib tizzy today. The fact that a infirmed minority woman was nominated to the SCOTUS has him in full on wood. The only thing that would make it better would be if she was a lesbian.

I wasn't talking about what you mentioned, Dogfish...and I'm pretty sure you know damn well what I was talking about

You know she was appointed by Bush, right? And that she was confirmed...twice...by a Republican controlled Congress...right?

So...were the Republicans wrong then...or are they wrong now?

Fish on...

Todd

What'd Rush have to say about it earlier today?

Oh, yeah...called her a racist, and said Obama was a racist, too.

That dude needs to go back on the Hillbilly Heroin...I think he's pretty fukked up.

Fish on...

Todd

Too easy...and still too painful to even think about.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd
did you ever read obama's book? how was that not racist?

Ok, you lefty smartasses, here are two "gun grabbing "(ammo grabbing) bills that just came up in California.

California: Two Anti-Gun Bills Scheduled for Consideration on Thursday, May 28
Friday, May 22, 2009


Please Stand-Up and Make Your Voices Heard!

Assembly Bill 962 and Senate Bill 585 are scheduled to be considered on Thursday, May 28.

AB962, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), is in the Assembly Committee on Appropriations. AB962 would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.

SB585 is currently in the Senate Appropriations Committee. Introduced by State Senator Mark Leno (D-3), SB585 would prohibit the sale of firearms and ammunition on the property or inside the buildings that comprise the Cow Palace. In short, SB585 is a stepping-stone to banning gun shows on all publicly-owned property in California.



Next question?

Yeah.

Why do you still live in that messed up excuse for a state?

A few bad apples (LA, Oakland, SanFrancisco, San Diego) and the state goes to hell in a hurry!

+1

AB962 would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database.

We always did our own loads at home.

Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers.

A locked cabinet to prevent theft or children getting their hands on ammunition.

The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice.

We already have to supply a driver's license and fingerprint for gun purchases.

SB585 would prohibit the sale of firearms and ammunition on the property or inside the buildings that comprise the Cow Palace. In short, SB585 is a stepping-stone to banning gun shows on all publicly-owned property in California.

Sounds like they are taking preventive measures to not be sued by bleeding heart liberals later on when it is found a crime was committed with a gun purchased on publicly owned property.

As a foster parent, I had to declare what firearms I own. Nobody cared that I owned them or told me I had to get rid of them, just that I had to properly secure them in a locked container. The state definitely knows where my guns are, but nobody has come to take them. The time is 3:51 PM pacific time.

...as they erode your freedoms one nibble at a time...

fixed

We're all in this together. Well, except you, since you had that boating mishap and all

yeah dude, i would be totally bummed if i lost all of my guns like that....

Has it really been a month already?

A few reasons....
I own a nice home in the country.
You can look out any window & not see neighbors.
My front yard do get a lil crowded though....



Thomas gets to play cowboy on the neighbor's ranch helping with ranch chores......









Having lived here all my life, I have connections to private property for very good blacktail hunting...

This year the Kid & I get to have this ranch all to ourselves...






Yeah, we have no salmon fishing for the time being, but life ain't all bad.
We had our annual squirrelfest up north last week on a friend's ranch...







California ain't the best place in the world, but I can think of a lot worse...

Kid's growing up fast...starting to look like a young man these days.

Fish on...

Todd

Is that Lake Berryessa Sal?

I grew up in Fairfield... lived in Sackatomatoes... and almost married a girl from Woodland. I actually miss it down there sometimes myself... even after living up here for 22 years now. My brother still lives in Napa.

FAWK...NICE SPREAD SAL!!!

Yeah I wouldn't move either. Imagine if that place held elk as well. That spread looks incredible.

i think this is the first time i have ever been jealous of someone who lives in cali......sweet place

"We always did our own loads at home."

Tried getting primers or powder lately?

good luck.

Didn't you get the memo? You were supposed to stock up!
Now Obama is tracing his family history to connections with Islam on his mid-east peace tour. Get ready.

Hey Todd! Got guns? Time check! BOB SAGET!

Still got 'em, even after leaving them for two days unattended while I was out fishing...

Fish on...

Todd

The story is that they'll be taking everyone's guns, tomorrow, or maybe the next day.

Anyone here had a gun taken yet? Even one?

Yeah...that's what I thought.

Fish on...

Todd

I am scared of guns....that's why I don't own any.

I am glad I have all of you to help protect me....

Now where did I put that CCR (Concealed Carry Rock)??

[quote=Big_Daddy].

I
Now where did I put that CCR (Concealed Carry Rock)?




I saw the CCR...next to the Mini 14 and under the Desert Eagle...

Mr. Big Daddy-

You need to switch to the EPFB - much more stylish, multi-purpose, and respected everywhere.

Okay...........I'll bite....What in the hell is a EPFB??

I am sure I will be sorry I asked..

English Pete Fish Bonker...aka "big f***** rock"...

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,

Ya know, there's a lot of "rumor and innuendo" floating about, however, not everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon.

People are concerned for their country, and the fact that our current President is changing policies and growing the Gov't faster than an obstetrics nurse can change diapers.

A lot of good men (and now women) have bled and died for what this President is now giving away (and apologizing for) as fast as he can sign his name and read his que-cards.

It's not me, or you (or my weapons) that I'm worried about..it's our kids and grand kids. THEY are the ones that will have to live with the legacy being created by Obama, and if (or more likely WHEN) civil war returns to American soil, it will be them fighting for it. Fighting, again, for what made America great. They will be fighting for the FREEDOMS that we are currently losing left and right.

Laugh and joke all you want, but there's going to be some serious [censored] happening in the USA in the next few years..... be sure you're on the correct side.

You're a very ingtelligent man Todd, but in this case I believe you've failed to see the whole picture.

That's JMHO,

Mike

Thats great..I write s h i a t (not even the actual word!) and it gets censored...Todd writes in an F-bomb and the system allows it.

Your honor, I rest my case. AMF

I agree this bullshitt is really getting old.

It is the increasing barrage of regulations and restrictions on firearm ownership that gun owners are refering to.

You think it's a joke?

Think again lefty Louie.

I'm on my required 10 day waiting period right now for gun aquisition in California.

Just one more hurdle that Todd & Mikespike's beloved lefty politicians have thrown at gun owners in this state.

I've never been what you call a "gun nut" but Todd's sarcasm is ridiculous to say the least.

"Todd,

Ya know, there's a lot of "rumor and innuendo" floating about, however, not everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon.

People are concerned for their country, and the fact that GW changed policies and grew the Gov't faster than even Ronald Reagan.

A lot of good men (and now women) have bled and died for the freedoms our former president took away.

It's not me, or you (or my weapons) that I'm worried about..it's our kids and grand kids. THEY are the ones that will have to live with the legacy created by GW, and if (or more likely WHEN) civil war returns to American soil, it will be them fighting for it. Fighting, again, for what made America great. They will be fighting for the FREEDOMS that we have lost left and right. Because they will be a smarter generation than their parents who took voting a bit too lightly.

Laugh and joke all you want, but there's going to be some serious [censored] happening in the USA in the next few years to correct the wrongs of the Bush Administration..... be sure you're on the correct side which is no longer anything Bush or Republican.

You're a very ingtelligent man Todd, but in this case I believe you've failed to see the whole picture.

That's JMHO,

Mike

Thats great..I write s h i a t (not even the actual word!) and it gets censored...Todd writes in an F-bomb and the system allows it.

Your honor, I rest my case. AMF"

Fixed it for you.

"I'm on my required 10 day waiting period right now for gun aquisition in California."

Did you have an urgent need to go shooting? I've been waiting a lot longer for the return of my constitutional rights.

Well, now we know which side of the battle you'll be on Stlhead.

No ORIGINAL thoughts? best you can do is plagerize my words and again, make fun of it?

For the record, I'm not "Left" or "Right"...I'm an AMERICAN damnit!

Seems some like to sit "on high" with their quick wit and fancy words...fact is, I don't give a [censored] who started it, OBAMA is making it much worse.

Just imagine your own home: Your BROKE, unemployed and the creditors are pounding at the gates. So, instead of cutting your bills back and paying some of your debt...no, you go borrow 10x as much as you're already in debt for and make it look like your doing something good.

Sure, the "wolves" are at bay, for now, but the days gonna come when the Piper has to be paid...and you've still got NUTHIN' to pay the bill with, let alone pay off the huge loan you took to get out of hot water the first time.

If we all ran our checkbooks that way there would be a 50 mile line-up outside every bankruptcy court.

What a joke. Go ahead, poke your fun.

Would then you put it, on record, that you assure us hard working people that in 5 years America will be better off? We'll all still be here on PP, and you can bet your ass I'll rub your nose in it.

[edit in note] Stlhead: I don't mean to be so confrontational, honest. I do believe we are on a totally wrong track. Our Gov't is buying businesses (like GM and banks), thousands upon thousands are losing their jobs, small businesses are closing left and right due to a lack of capital (including mine). Very few dollars are being spent to upgrade manufacturing facilities, or to prepare for the next generation of products. Instead, companies are making due with what they have, afraid to spend more as a majority of Americans just don't have the bucks to buy the products.

If I am wrong I will apologize publicly, and you can rub MY nose for saying that in 5 years the US will look very much like any of the Eastern European Socialist countries. We will produce little, and pay exhorbatant rates in taxes to keep the government machine running. [end edit]

Mike

My point is where were you the last eight years? NOW you worry about your rights and what's happening to this country? What's that old saying "I stood by and did nothing and when they came for me there was nobody left to object"?

No sir. I was flipped out over that then, too. The majority of the so called "Patriot Act" is an abomination on the blood that's been spilled to make this country free.

Unfortunately, I believe what Obama is doing is making the last idiots blunders even worse by a factor of 10.

I'm not some radical (on either side), but I can read the writing on the wall.

You replied while I was writing in an [edit] on the previous post. Check that and maybe you'll understand.

Mike

Whatever rights people thought got trampled the last 8 years Obama has continued.

So far or could it be he's not "rushing" into anything without thinking it through? I hate the whole bailout thing. Especially since, once again, I don't see a damn dime of it. But our banking system was considered the safest in the world and allowing it to collapse wasn't an option. Lack of oversight is what brought it down. I do hope Obama is successful in going after off shore tax dodges as well as his "buy American" strategy.

Anyone complaining about our country getting screwed up right now who sat on the sidelines, or even worse, voted for and defended BushCorp, has no credibility in any conversation about it.

Fish on...

Todd

That's a hellofa way to try and attenuate the current discussion Todd. Bush was a bonehead, no doubt, and many of us would have to say we were wrong.

An honest man admits where he screwed up, but that doesn't mean once he discovers his mistake and fesses up to it that he is going to sit around and continue to take it in the shorts.

Is that how you handle your mistakes Todd? "Oops, I screwed up...so I'll just let them continue to hose me because I deserve it?"

I seriously doubt it.

ROTFLMFAO

No sir, you recognize where it all went wrong and then try and FIX it! (and you can't fix it by doing more of the same crap that got you into trouble in the first place).

MB

The FDIC did not have the funds to bail out the entire banking industry. The FDIC would have needed a massive bailout.

Oil prices shouldn't rise every Friday afternoon, or the day before Memorial Day Weekend, or the day before Fourth of July...but they do.

Fish on...

Todd

Different because the FDIC is insurance on deposits only. And up to $100K at the time. No mortgages, etc. Talk about massive losses.

FDIC insurance is currently $250,000 per relationship. Proper structuring of account ownership allows a couple with two or three kids to easily safeguard over $1 million. I bet I could get that up over $2MM.

FDIC insurance on non interest bearing checking accounts and savings accounts earning less than 0.50% is unlimited, provided that they are business accounts.

Salmonella-

I am a registered Republican. I have no love for "lefty pliticians" or the GOP. I voted for Ron Paul.

I enjoy Todd's sarcasm because it is on the mark - the government is not coming to take our guns. If the government wants to, it will take us out from the air or with armor or with artillery. Our guns will not protect us from the military, nor will our guns protect us from legislation. That last one is the real killer.

That's why I said "at the time".

Here is just the foreign activity (insured by the FDIC add 000 down from 2008):

Deposits, total 1,416,065,967
Individuals, partnerships & corporations 1,087,201,228
Commercial banks & other depository Institutions in the U.S.
88,820,199
Banks in foreign countries 163,498,001
Foreign governments and official institutions 75,710,425
U.S. government, states, and political subdivisions 836,117

We have seen a huge influx of funds from large banks. Between March 1st and April 30th, 44 business days, we saw a $45MM increase in deposits, or just over $1MM per day. (Our bank is about $650MM in size, so that is a huge increase)

Stupid people lose money due to not having FDIC insurance. Structuring accounts, pledging cash as security for an unused line, or using a CD program like CDARS will allow 99% of people to get full FDIC protection.

Banks right now are paying an increased assessment to build the fund back up.

Or, you can hide your head in the sand and see how that goes......

So what is your point? Are you making the argument that simply bailing out the FDIC would have resolved the banking crisis, like Hankster claims, or are you just blowing smoke and informing us all that you work at a bank? My argument is the issue was much greater than individual deposits and covering foreign deposits alone would have been almost $2 trillion anyway. Not to mention all of that covered foreign money going bye bye as countries pull out. Mom and pop wouldn't have to worry about their savings because the US dollar would have been all but worthless anyway.

The FDIC could NEVER have covered all deposits. How meaningful is FDIC "coverage" if you can't get it when you want it?

Mike,

I'm not worried about anyone taking my weapons either. In the first place, I would venture to guess that 90% of law enforcement would all but ignore the directive, and second, the SCOTUS would never allow it.

My concern is that we are following in the [already failed] footsteps of other governments...socialist ones. It all sounds great, but it just doesn't work!

I'm 50, and will only be paying into the sytem for another 15 yrs or so (or until I croak, whichever is sooner). Problem is our kids, and grand kids are going to be saddled with the BILLS for what is being spent now for their entire working lives, and when it all collapses (and it will) we will be just that much worse off.

That's what I'm afraid of.

True but the robbing Peter to pay Paul is pure Reaganomics 101. You'll be lucky to collect on that SS. At some point I'm going to be tempted to withdrawal all of my 401K moneys and pay at todays tax rate because, even with the penalty, tomorrows tax rate is going to be ugly.

Roll it into an IRA, then convert to a ROTH. You'll pay the taxes, but avoid the penalty. If you can't do that now because of income restrictions, you should be able to next year, when the rules change.

Wow. You think WE will actually get to retire? The North Koreans will take us all out before that happens...

Ever stop to consider how many of the industrailized nations in the world are more socialist than not, in comparison to how many subscribe to an economic system that mirrors ours?

DISCLAIMER: Not to be construed as an endorsement of socialism, just something to think about. Although I admit I would be perfectly content with a more socialized system here.

Well Hank... since the European democracies are FAR more socialized than we are... and the "Trickle-down", pseudo-fascist, corporate oligopoly, 'favor the rich at the expense of the middle-class' system that's been in place here for the last 30 years has been an abject FAILURE and has been patently rejected by the American electorate... perhaps a hybrid that employs the BEST of both systems would be in our best interest?

Something else to consider...

Yeah, 4Salt, but that's the American Way. Hasn't always been that way, but it sure is now.

Sarcasm? Sure...would you rather hear my actual feelings about the childlike fear-mongering around gun grabbing that you "tough gun guys" are always being peddled by the NRA, and eating up like candy?

No, you wouldn't...so take the sarcasm and get over it.

Fish on...

Todd

FDIC won't fail. Period. The healthy banks will cover the losses of those who are not, unfortunately, and shareholder returns will suffer.

When the Bank of Clark County went down a few months back, Washington's own little version of FDIC worked as it should. All uninsured public deposits were covered by other Washington banks within the pool. This did not include credit unions or S&L's, just banks.

We wrote a check for $80,000. B of A wrote a check for $4MM.

The same essential chain of events will occur when/if any bank large enough to threaten FDIC's reserves fails. I think we are at 35, or 37 year to date on bank failures. Banks will pay a special assessement based upon a percentage of their assets, and the fund will be replenished.

You can wring your hands all you want. The FDIC won't fail. Yes, the dollar is going to be taking a hit. Yes, some stupid people will lose money. How much of a hit is only conjecture at this point. You don't know any more than I do at this point. The FDIC is a non-issue compared to the other issues out there.

Some people I know are diversifying their cash into metals, and some foreign currency as a hedge. Not a bad idea in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm not a teller, I don't help folks balance their checkbooks, but if you need a few million bucks, are interested in a particitaion or syndication deal, need to buy or sell a business, or finance a trucking fleet, I'm your man.

Interesting time to be a banker.

Hankster!

I heard this on the radio this morning and instantly thought of you, in a good way, so enjoy!

fixed

..and if the entire financial system fails, you'll be wishing you had a gun.

If, as Hankster has proposed, we had taken the approach of no TARP and instead let the chips fall where they may as FDIC funds rapidly dwindled there would be an increasing rate of "run on the banks". it would be a snowball effect. We'd be forced to bail out the FDIC or get used to being a third world country. Small banks would be toast. Nobody in their right mind is going to keep large sums in a small bank with the FDIC on the verge of running out of deposit insurance.

Mr. Dogfish-

I am not a "working man" and would employ the royal guard for any needed gun play. I believe I have enough manpower to safeguard my stockpile of caviar and champagne during the coming financial crisis.

I couldn't agree more. The FDIC is protection in the same way that God helps athletes win games.

As usual, 4Salt is sounding too intelligent and rational for this board.

And how am I doing that? Supporting someone's First Amendment right to free speech doens't mean I have to like what they say...or give up my right to make fun of them when they are acting like scared little children.

Fish on...

Todd

Can't dodge the fact that four was four too many. So, from now on, you'll need another half enlightened person to make a whole argument.

Todd's remarks are NOT on the mark.

What I'm saying is that his remarks about someone banging on the door and demanding our guns is not the way it is going down.

It is the ever increasing regulations that seem so acceptable to many (especially liberal democrats) that will legislate them away.

Banning guns that look scary...."Cop Killer " (LOL) bullets...."Sniper Rifles"....the number of guns or ammunition you can buy in a certain time frame...the number of firearms that constitute an "Arsenal" yadda yadda yadda.
More and more and more each year.

You should know Mike, coming from California that the freedom of firearm ownership is becoming more and more difficult.

Don't get me wrong, I talked a young father out of buying a gun just last week.
He was considering a handgun for self protection and has three young kids....bad move IMO.
You can only keep a gun safely in the house with kids if it is securely locked in a gun safe rendering it useless against an intruder.
I don't buy everything the NRA pushes, but have seen the ever tightening gun laws since I was a kid myself.

And I'm sorry Todd, you cannot look me in the eye and truly believe that the democrats are the party of choice regarding gun rights & gun ownership even if you have several dust collectors in your closet.
Todd rightfully jumps at the chance to defend salmon & steelhead habitat and is always leading the charge in backing protective measures for salmonids & I applaud him for that.
The avid hunters and shooters of this country are every bit as protective about issues relating to guns, hunting & shooting, but he takes pride in ridiculing their concerns calling it "paranoia".

I'm not a gun nut and do believe that some people should not have guns for their own safety and the safety of others.
The rub comes when we decide who makes this decision and on what grounds.

Sal-

Basically, we agree. I mentioned that legislation is the real killer and we might be the most legislated state in the union - we seem to get the most press for it anyway.

Todd is on the mark about making fun of "Obama is going to take your guns." It won't happen that way and anyone that promotes that has an ulterior motive or chooses to not deal with the reality of the situation.

Ultimately, your last comment is the key - I voted for Ron Paul becasue I could not in good conscience vote for the shinolas offered by our plutocratic GOP & Democratic parties. When the people of the USA realize that we don't have to put up with having only two choices (really just one choice as it is all rhetoric and posturing), things will change for the better.

People constantly make fun of "socialist countries" on this board, and I am not going to support socialism in this diatribe, but I would point out that VOTING makes a big difference in those countries and the people are more realistically represented by their legislators. We don't have to change our system of government, but we do need to introduce a non-satus quo party or parties to get effective change.

We don't need socialism in America, we just need to separate our politicians from influence peddling special interests.

"you cannot look me in the eye and truly believe that the democrats are the party of choice regarding gun rights & gun ownership"

If your voting decision, as some on here have stated, is based solely upon gun rights issues then you prove Todd's point.

______________________________________________________
Article claiming gun laws are softening:
Despite Recent Violence, Gun Laws Are Softening
Thirteen killed at an immigration center in New York. Eight at a nursing home in North Carolina. Five in a house in California. These were among the 57 people killed in mass shootings in a 30-day period this spring in the U.S. Meanwhile, new laws are easing restrictions on guns.

Congress recently approved a bill to allow guns in national parks. Tennessee has passed similar measures for its state parks. In South Carolina, a bill under debate would allow weapons on school grounds. Texas may welcome guns into bars. In Montana, a new law requires landlords and hotel owners to allow firearms on their premises.

The bills' supporters say these measures may actually help head off greater violence. "Crime can happen anywhere," says Andrew Arulanandam of the National Rifle Association. "The only thing that can stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun. Law enforcement can't be everywhere, so law-abiding people should have as many options as possible if and when they are attacked."

Gun-control advocates argue that weakening laws is disastrous. While it wouldn't necessarily lead to more mass shootings, they say, it would almost certainly increase the number of gun-related murders in the U.S. There are currently more than 11,500 each year, and America has one of the world's highest firearm homicide rates. Per capita, our rate is 39 times greater than that of England, 13 times Australia's, and
6 times Canada's.

"We have the equivalent of a Virginia Tech massacre every day in this country. It's just not all in one place," says Daniel Webster of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. "It's what happens when a person gets mad and has easy access to a gun. Someone is shot over a game of dice. Had the gun not been in their hands, no one would have died."

— Rebecca Webber

"We don't need socialism in America"

We are already socialists. The citizens are the corporations and the govt exists for the corps. All resources are divided up by the govt and given to the corps who then feed crumbs to us mice breaking off a third of each crumb to pump back into the corp feeding trough. They label this form of socialism "Capitalism".

today's word boys and girls, is "plutocracy".

As usual, Marsha, your faux-centrist make believe position is full of crap.

I decry infringements of all our rights, including our 2nd Amendment rights...my sarcasm is pointed at the scared Chicken Littles who are finding boogeymen where they don't exist...no one is taking your guns, or mine, and acting like a child who is scared someone wants their candy is exactly what those lying sacks at the NRA want you to think.

If they actually were taking guns, then I'd have just as big a problem with it as I did with all the other rights that BushCorp infringed...and pointing out the hypocrisy of those who say "if you're not a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about, get over it!", and then think the sky is falling and their guns are about to experience rapture and disappear before their eyes, is the ultimate in consistency, not hypocrisy.

Read, think, then type. Give it a try.

Fish on...

Todd

I read that bill--twice--and thought about it, so decided to type this:

Where does it say anything about coming to take your currently owned guns away?

Evidently the gubment ain't satisfied with just taking your guns. See here.

With a good coordinated effort we can have scheduled fear mongering now biweekly. I suggest a "They's comin' ta get my guns" thread on the first of each month, and a "they can have my knife when I stick in their chest" thread on the 15th. That should keep the right amply frightened things orderly.

It doesn't take any guns away, and no one will be doing it, either...typical knee-jerk reactions from right wingers who actually believe the crap they get in their NRA newsletters...why are you guys always so damn afraid of everything?

I've been out of town for a week...guns utterly un-guarded by me...not surprisingly, still here when I got home today.

Unlike many "tough guys" here, I wasn't even scared that they'd be gone when I got back...

Fish on...

Todd

Picture = 1,000 words

I don't get it. but the V-8 makes me want to have a bloody mary while waiting for an update from Todd.

Guess it's a you must be from around here to get it thing.

I don't get it, either...but I do still have all my guns...not even any attempted grabbings yet.

Fish on...

Todd

Fear monger!!! Is Obama behind this?

I guess it's my "pick on Parker" day

PS Todd! Anyone take your guns while you were in Fargo?

Nope...still here when I arrived.

Hank, I thought you'd be happy about that ruling...after all, it was about as "activist" as you could get to manufacture an individual right to bear arms out of a provision in the Constitution whose plain and obvious text applies to maintaining State militia...

'Course, "activist" judge really is a bullchit RWWJ term, one that really means "didn't vote the way I like"...

Fish on...

Todd

Damn,

I created a monster. This thing is still alive.

Occassionally, I believe that some things should not die.

I think you've provided a worthy service...a clearinghouse where we can all tell the horror stories of guns that have literally been grabbed right out of our hands...though, it seems that it hasn't happened to anyone, anywhere, yet.

Marsha, by your reasoning the dude on the back of the Humvee with the 50mm cannon should be able to take it home and use it to kill beer cans in his back yard...after all, he is a citizen. Same goes for the guys who fly gunships...because, of course, they're citizens, too.

Fish on...

Todd

Since you were a rag-a-muffin little colony back then, the only way your secessionist leaders could raise an army was by calling on any man that owned a musket. Essentially, each state raised a militia, which then shot at us from behind trees instead of facing us and being slaughtered like real men.

Today, you shoot each other at convenience stores and in your homes because "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It is obvious the fallacy of your thinking lies in believing your government will call on you to bring your weapons to defend the state, instead of using the professional army paid for by your taxes.

Give a handful to Chuck Norris and see how many heads will roll...

Let's roll.

Who gets your Vote today?

I voted for Ron Paul.

fixed

I love bacon

That's going to take a bite out of your dating circle, isn't it?

Ever hear of Australia, or even Canada ?

I wasn't aware that Australia and Canada were covered by the US Constitution. Must have happened while they were stealing Todd's guns!!!!!

Are you implying that the US Constitution protects individual citizen's right to gun ownership...?

Wolverines!

Pure genius - that gun is covered in bacon, right? since Obama is a muslim....

Todd! as a backup, cover your guns in bacon, just to be sure.

The funny parts of this thread are actually funny.

The "intellectual" portions of the thread are sad.

Nice Red Dawn reference Andy....

Glad someone picked up on that one!

It was an astute observation as well.

Since I saw the fear-mongering on the hunting board, thought I'd bring this one back up...

How's that gun grabbing treating you guys?

Let's all prepare the I'm sure loonngg list of guns that Obama has come to your house and taken right out of your hands...grabbed 'em, even.

Something tells me that in spite of the fear and whining, not one single gun has been grabbed from one single one of you.

I know mine haven't been grabbed by anyone but me.

Fish on...

Todd

Doesn't mean that vigilantly defending the 2nd amendment is useless.

Would you agree that gun control is on the short list of the current administration or are you touting it as a ridiculous notion altogether?

By the time they are actually grabbed it is too late.

Todd,

Interested to get your input on this... (concept of this was on Dave Ross's show today)..

Should a legally qualified medical marijuana patient, who is a business owner, taxpayer and upstanding citizen in every respect, be denied their right to own a firearm because they use what the Federal Gov't considers as an "illegal drug"?

Should the same apply to anyone using something really dangerous like Oxycontin (when taken by prescription)? Oxy is, no question, a far more dangerous substance...yet, I can take 2 and go buy a handgun...but...be an MMJ patient and you are denied your rights?

Not arguing...just honestly looking for your input as this is a "close to home" issue.

ISO

Mike, yeah, they're a felon, felon's can't carry guns.

Do I think it's right that medical marijuana users...or any marijuana users, for that matter...are considered felons? No.

Marz, just keep poppin' the fear pills...you'll find plenty of compatriots.

Fish on...

Todd

So your saying that the potential for increased gun control is a myth?

Or are you just saying that expressing concern for it is a ridiculous pointless act?

I actually dont know why I even re-ask these questions since you avoided the first with a Bill Maher-esque attempt at the funny.

The potential for almost anything in the whole world is possible...

If I were you, I'd consider buying 10K rounds, and getting in your coat closet...after all, they could be coming today.

Fish on...

Todd

First, there is no need to paint me as a paranoid tin foil hat wearing wing nut, as your glib attitude projects. I got nothing against you, I am just challenging your unearthing a dead thread to give yourself a gold star of self assurance.

The fact that gun sales went through the roof and the O-man's approval ratings took a hit could very well be a reason for him pushing back from the gun control table.

I agree, no one is going to come grab our guns, they may tax the hell out of em, limit legal firearms to that of a single bolt action .22, maybe they will make high-cap mags and vertical forward grips illegal... but not even Washington Cease Fire will take your guns, they may make you a criminal for owning them, but they wont take em.

I am not hitting the panic button but I am also not pretending it doesn't exist. I dont throw money at the NRA to make the boogie man go away, I just challenge those that seem intent on pussifing the US and those that seem complacent with letting it happen.

That is signature worthy right there...

Simple possession isn't a felony and therefore isn't a disqualifying event. It's the questions posed on the federal form 4473 that can get an MMJ patient in trouble.

Question 11 a. on form 4473...."Are you you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Which most all MMJ patients could truthfully answer with a firm "NO". If
they were to add "Based on Federal Law" to the start of that question
then that would sticky things up a bit.

ISO

We floated a river today, caught some fish...even had a handgun on board...it wasn't grabbed.

Further updates as the weekend progresses...

Fish on...

Todd

You know, I have a pretty good history of starting 5 star threads. Why is this only a 1 star thread? 34 freaking pages people. Who else brings this much entertainment to you?

You people are beginning to dissapoint me.

Are you double jointed or missing a rib or two?

I don't know how you do that all day.

Seriously though, its just nice being out here....

Seems I'm not the only one pondering the question of firearm ownership:

********************

Kirkland shoot-out aftermath proves medical marijuana dilemma requires legislative fix - Dave Workman

The case of Kirkland medical marijuana activist Steve Sarich suggests that there may be something fundamentally wrong with federal firearm statutes that penalize people who have not been found guilty of a crime or adjudicated to be mentally incompetent.

Instead, they are simply “disqualified” from possessing firearms, as noted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer's on-line edition, even if it might mean – as it could in Sarich’s case – that they are rendered unable to defend themselves from home invasion robbers who might kill them. This much has already been established in the Sarich case, because he traded shots with one of four thugs who broken into his home March 15. Sarich critically wounded one of the perpetrators, and another of the group slightly wounded him with a round from the stolen shotgun he was carrying.


Sarich, 59, said he tried to buy a shotgun and a pistol a few days after the March 15 shootout to replace ones seized by investigators. He said he has no criminal record but failed the background check because of federal laws prohibiting "unlawful users" of controlled substances from buying or otherwise receiving guns. Marijuana is illegal under federal law.


The March 15 gunfight was the second case involving Sarich and King County. An earlier case from January also figures into this situation, because at that time, Sarich disclosed to investigators that he has a medical marijuana certificate after one of the deputies smelled pot.

In the aftermath of the March 15 shooting, which I wrote about here, Sarich’s two .22-caliber pistols and a pair of other firearms in the Kirkland residence were taken as evidence by King County Sheriff’s detectives, which is standard procedure. Sarich, realizing his vulnerability, subsequently tried to purchase a shotgun and handgun, but because he is a medical marijuana user – legal under this state’s statutes – he is “disqualified” from even possessing, much less buying, a firearm by federal statute.

King County sent a copy of its report on the Sarich incident to the National Instant Check System, operated by the FBI, which promptly denied the gun purchase. Federal law has no exemption for medical marijuana users. The law classifies marijuana in the same realm as heroin, period.


Sarich runs CannaCare, an organization that claims 7,000 members in the state. It helps patients with legal advice, runs clinics where patients can meet with doctors who authorize marijuana use, provides patients with marijuana clones or starter plants and delivers about 50 patients a week with usable marijuana, he said.


This column takes no position on the use of medical marijuana. This case presents a tidal wave of irony because the only recourse for Sarich and people like him to not be legally stripped of their gun rights is to get the law changed. To accomplish that, medical marijuana users in this state will have to approach lawmakers who are no friends of gun rights.

At the federal level, that would be Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, and Representatives Jay Inslee, Jim McDermott and Rick Larsen, all Democrats. Their party currently controls Congress and the White House. But ask any of them if they would push for a change in the federal marijuana statute so people like Sarich could legally possess a gun for self-defense, and chances of a warm reception fall somewhere between zero and zilch.

Seattle’s FBI spokesman Fred Gutt put this in the proper perspective. Federal statute has no exemption for medical marijuana users. Under federal law, medical marijuana use is no different than smoking pot just to get stoned, or shooting heroin to get high. It is the “illegal use of a controlled substance” in the eyes of the federal law. That’s why Sarich got flagged in the NICS check, and denied his gun purchase. His dilemma is getting mixed reviews from Seattle Times readers, who are very divided on the issue.

State Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles (D-Seattle), who recently insisted that it is time medical marijuana patients get “complete protection” from prosecution, is one of Olympia’s most ardent gun prohibitionists. Kohl-Welles might be horrified if Sarich asked her to help him fix the law so he could arm himself for defense against another home invasion robbery. “Complete protection” in her mind might not be so “complete” after all.


It is time to provide qualified medical-marijuana patients complete protection under the law and to directly regulate the production and dispensing of cannabis. Patients should not have to fear arrest, home searches or property seizures by law-enforcement officers. Providers who want to help patients access medical marijuana should not have to risk prosecution and robbery.—State Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles


In the middle of this quagmire fall the law enforcement agencies. Sarich is angry at the King County Sheriff’s Office for sharing information on his case with the NICS system. However, King County and the FBI are stuck with having to enforce gun laws that are supported by – you guessed it – the same people to whom Sarich would have to take his cause. Sheriffs and FBI agents didn’t pass those laws, politicians did.

Besides, as sheriff’s spokesman Sgt. John Urquhart noted, Sarich “has been quite open with the press… as to his status as a medical marijuana patient.” Being high profile can put you on more than one radar screen, as it were, and FBI agents are certainly capable of reading.

If there is to be any relief for Sarich and others like him, it probably would be through the legislative process. If a person legitimately uses medical marijuana to address a medical problem, the argument goes, there should be no way his or her gun rights can be stripped. One should not sacrifice a civil right or their personal safety for using a controversial remedy that is legal in more than a dozen states.

*************************************

He needs to go to a gunshow and buy one there, or through a private party sale.

Pretty impressive Andy. I was so enthralled with your 5-star clucker architecture thread that I completely missed that you've also significantly resolved the 2nd Article of Amendment matter too. Must have been because this one is only 1 star....

Okay, some of you can stay.

Very interesting post by ISO. Poor Sarich now has to buy his guns the same way criminals do. Oh, that's right, he is a criminal under federal law. F'n drug laws proves we as a nation are stupid.

Sg

Let see. 3 stars for Dogfish after 36 pages.

5 stars after 6 posts on the Hank Johnson Guam thread. Andy, maybe you need to add some babes in bikinis preventing imminent capsize of the mainland for those final 2 stars....

'Andy, maybe you need to add so me babes in bikinis"

Steller advice. Adding bikini babeage is never wrong on this side plus it gives us old guys a kick in the cabeza de' melon and makes us actually think.

I believe all treaties must be voted on by the Congress but
> I may be
> wrong.
> I don't trust this administration.
>
> Subject: Obama Finds Legal Way Around The 2nd Amendment
>
>
> Obama Finds Legal Way Around The 2nd Amendment And Uses
> It. If This
> Passes,
> There Will Be WAR. pass it far & wide.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to
> Ban All
> Firearms
> in the United States. On Wednesday the Obama administration
> took its
> first
> major step in a plan to ban all firearms in the United
> States. The
> Obama
> administration intends to force gun control and a complete
> ban on all
> weapons for US citizens through the signing of
> international treaties
> with
> foreign nations. By signing international treaties on gun
> control,
> the Obama
> administration can use the US State Department to
> bypass the normal
> legislative process in Congress. Once the US
> Government signs these
> international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to
> those gun
> laws
> created by foreign governments. These are laws that have
> been
> developed and
> promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and
> individuals
> such as
> George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are
> designed and
> intended to
> lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms.
>
>
>
> The Obama administration is attempting to use tactics and
> methods of
> gun
> control that will inflict major damage to our 2nd Amendment
> before US
> citizens even understand what has happened. Obama can
> appear before
> the
> public and tell them that he does not intend to pursue any
> legislation (in
> the United States) that will lead to new gun control laws,
> while
> cloaked in
> secrecy, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is
> committing the US
> to
> international treaties and foreign gun control laws. Does
> that mean
> Obama is
> telling the truth? What it means is that there will be no
> publicized
> gun
> control debates in the media or votes in Congress. We will
> wake up one
> morning and find that the United States has signed a treaty
> that
> prohibits
> firearm and ammunition manufacturers from selling to the
> public. We
> will
> wake up another morning and find that the US has signed a
> treaty that
> prohibits any transfer of firearm ownership. And then, we
> will wake
> up yet
> another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty
> that
> requires US
> citizens to deliver any firearm they own to the local
> government
> collection
> and destruction center or face imprisonment.
>
>
>
> This is not a joke nor a false warning. As sure as
> government health
> care
> will be forced on us by the Obama administration through
> whatever
> means
> necessary, so will gun control. Read the
> Article -- U.S. reverses
> stance
> on treaty to regulate arms trade.
>
>
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on
> Wednesday
> and
> said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate
> arms sales
> as
> long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics
> said gave
> every
> nation a veto. The decision, announced in a statement
> released by
> the U.S.
> State Department, overturns the position of former
> President George
> W.
> Bush's administration, which had opposed such a treaty on
> the grounds
> that
> national controls were better. View The Full Article Here
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE59E0Q920091015
>
>
>
> Please forward this message to others who may be concerned
> about the
> direction in which our country is headed. This is a
> very serious
> matter!
>
> Silence will lead us to Socialism!!!
>
> Confidence is locking the door, and then not trying the
> knob to be
> sure.
>
> Have we been 'had' or what???
>

Maybe not but he has had Craig fries!

The only thing less-enlightened than reading and believing right wing propaganda email chain letters is actually posting them on the interwebz and asking others to believe them, too...never thought I'd say this, but you'd be better off getting your "facts" from Glen Beck.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Just spent Wed-Sun on the OP...even had a gun along...didn't get grabbed, nor did any of the guns at home while I was gone.

there's always turkey bacon or Sizzlean.

Is Tahola a rogue nation?

"Have we been 'had' or what???"

Only you, equinox, and others who believe whatever shows up in thier inbox no matter their political leanings. I finally got my Mom to quit sending me this crap by giving her a link to snopes and fact check. Now she has a new hobby debunking the cut and paste emails herself.
You might consider that, equinox.

gf grabs my pistol all the time.

the rogue is in oregon, but i wouldn't call it a nation.

oh good heavens no, too many guns and banjos around there

which almost gets us back to gun grabbers

PS please tell me you stayed in the treehouse B&B in takilma. any howler monkeys up there?