If George W. Bush had doubled the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had criticized a state law that he admitted he never even read, would you think that he is just an ignorant hot head?
If George W. Bush joined the country of Mexico and sued a state in the United States to force that state to continue to allow illegal immigration, would you question his patriotism and wonder who's side he was on?
If George W. Bush had put 87000 workers out of work by arbitrarily placing a moratorium on offshore oil drilling on companies that have one of the best safety records of any industry because one company had an accident would you have agreed?
If George W. Bush had used a forged document as the basis of the moratorium that would render 87000 American workers unemployed would you support him?
If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a TelePrompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?
If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?
If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia , would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the nonexistent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?
If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had stated that there were 57 states in theUnited States, would you have said that he is clueless?
If George W. Bush would have flown all the way to Denmark to make a five minute speech about how the Olympics would benefit him walking out his front door in Texas , would you have thought he was a self important, conceited, egotistical jerk.
If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May (Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?
If George W. Bush had misspelled the word "advice" would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and "potatoes" as proof of what a dunce he is?
If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?
If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people, followed by a jet fighter, in downtown Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually get what happened on 9-11?
If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest, where more people were killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?
If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in America , would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?
So, tell me again; what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's done all this in 15 months -- so you'll have two years and nine months to come up with an answer. Every statement is factual and directly attributable to Barrack Hussein Obama. Every bumble is a matter of record and completely verifiable.
Irie, just once, I mean just once, can you articulate a position without trying to verbalize profanity? Try it guy as you have it in you but just have to get past bs. In the end your thoughts and positions will have far greater validity, and you do have good points. Your presentation................it is lacking.
I don't think it's right to call anybody an idiot or a retard. That's the way I was raised. I don't think GW is an idiot or RR either. What is stupid is all the name calling and mud flinging that started with the GOP.
I have a higher IQ than GW. I'm not a genious like Obama either.
IR... edit that sucker quick before someone quotes you!
Do I think GWB was an idiot?
No. Not really.
He knew exactly what he was gettin' into when the corporate star chamber that runs this country made him their lackey!
He comes from money and that mentality is all he really understands.
Now all of the brain-dead right-wing troglodites that knowingly vote against their own self-interests and the good of the majority of citizens of this country because they're so consumed with hatred and so easily manipulated by the same corporate interests that controlled GWB...
I Now all of the brain-dead right-wing troglodites that knowingly vote against their own self-interests and the good of the majority of citizens of this country because they're so consumed with hatred and so easily manipulated by the same corporate interests that controlled GWB...
...that's some MAJOR phukkin' idiots there!
That sounds like most of the guys in Western Washington who live to have a rod or gun in their hands in their spare time, or make a living in the woods. They regularly vote against their self interests by electing every person with a D after their name, no matter how many times that same party skrews them in regards to gun control, environmental legislation, or endangered species policies.
I just don't get it. You would have thought people living in the counties west of Olympia would have learned by the skrewing they got from Clinton and Gore in the 90's.
The answer is yes. However, there are some here who would vote for him again and those are the real idiots.
Bankmaggot needs to do his homework. The GOP of late never saw a forest they didn't want to cut. Never saw a resource that shouldn't be exploited. Look up Dick Cheney Klamath fish kill before you vote next time.
Hell no GWB was no idiot and neither is BO. Just lying, cheating, tell you anything to get elected and get your money b.s. pols. Any president has to be to get where they are in this day and age. In the Teddy R times it was different(at least not as bad) but now that seems to be the nature of the beast.
The real "phukkin' idiots" should look in the mirror because they are so stupid they believe their side is different.
GFY, this ain't Dr. Phuckin' Phil here b1tch..................sack up or STFU.
Lightly moderated, that basically means no pussies Rvrb1tch........
As in..........................just a reminder here
Que Que, looks like we found your soft spot. Irie may need you to lick his sack in private but probably doesn't need you holding his hand on this site........... Just a thought:)
IR... edit that sucker quick before someone quotes you!
Do I think GWB was an idiot?
No. Not really.
He knew exactly what he was gettin' into when the corporate star chamber that runs this country made him their lackey!
He comes from money and that mentality is all he really understands.
Now all of the brain-dead right-wing troglodites that knowingly vote against their own self-interests and the good of the majority of citizens of this country because they're so consumed with hatred and so easily manipulated by the same corporate interests that controlled GWB...
O'my god. I stand corrected. There is a whole other group out there that is to stupid to understand what is even being said. That group must just like D's more than R's or the other way around.
Without reading the usual cut and paste from some ridiculous RWWJ mass email, i.e., I'm only reading the title of this thread...and I find myself answering with a question:
Q: Is George Bush an idiot?
A: Is that a rhetorical question?
There are only two things more idiotic than Dumbya's policies that caused our country to go straight down the $hitter...and that's the dumfuks who voted for him the first time actually voted for him again, and those same dumfuks actually are defending him still, even if they do it in the utterly brainless way of just copying/pasting mass emails that they get in their inbox.
If you are going to rank him you need to compare < 2 years of other presidencies.
"President Obama's steep decline in popularity since taking office should be distressing for Democrats, but at least from a historical standpoint -- and if past is precedent -- he can be compared to one looming American political figure: Ronald Reagan.
It is a comparison sure to send conservatives, many of whom idolize Reagan and abhor Obama's policies, running for the hills. It will likewise unsettle a good number of Democrats still frustrated by Reagan's policies.
But placed together on a graph the two men's approval ratings snake and jut downwards like a helix, from almost identical starting points, with approval in the high 60s, down to about 50 percent in the first year and a half. (Spoiler Alert: Reagan's popularity continued down to a low of 42 percent and Republicans lost 26 seats in the House of Representatives after two years of the Reagan presidency. Many political experts predict even stiffer losses for Democrats in November.) "
WHAT? Not our all time icon of conservatism! How can they possibly compare a muslim foreigner to our holiest of holy? My RWWJ head is going to explode!
jeez, same ol bullsquash i hear everywhere from everyone,why do you funkin bother? none one of us are ever going to see eye to eye, all your doing is causing your blood pressure to rise. Partisan crap is what it is. im disappointed in all of you
you know what id prefer? funkin zombie plague, or a scorched earth no law scenario. that way if you dont like my politics or the way i fish i can just kill you, and feed you to my dogs.
no your the one forgetting i come from the cutthroat right wing kill, extort, out for myself and no-one else,rape the land gene pool, you come from the tolerance and understanding koombaya gene pool. so it stands to reason that my gene pool can beat up your gene pool. you my fish, now hold my pocket
Was George Bush an idiot? No, of course not. I've met some idiots, and every one of them was way smarter than Bush. Now, if you were talking about a box of rocks, well that's different. Only about half the rocks are smarter than Bush. That's my non-partisan view, so don't say I never said anything good about GW.
yada yada yada.......the smart ones survive. That isn't you. Sorry.
dont hate on my zombie/YOU killin skills. we should play the boo game sometime, if you didnt know thats where i scare you into lettin me richard you... just saying
The answer is yes. However, there are some here who would vote for him again and those are the real idiots.
Bankmaggot needs to do his homework. The GOP of late never saw a forest they didn't want to cut. Never saw a resource that shouldn't be exploited. Look up Dick Cheney Klamath fish kill before you vote next time.
I've done my homework, maybe you should try some reading comprehension The fact is the Democrats fucked timber communities in the ass in the 90's. I'm sure you guys who consider where I live to be your weekend playground think that's wonderful. We on the other hand are still suffering from this and probably will never recover as a community. I say great and have your fun, eventually the Democrats will restrict these playgrounds to the point that only a handful of envirogeeks will be allowed, and you'll be locked out as well.
Its the same Democrats who never fail to to promote more legislation to restrict firearms, restrict hunting, or restricting access on public lands, not the Republicans. Any hunter, gun owner, fisherman, or off roader who votes for a Democrat needs have an immediate psych eval for suicidal ideations in my opinion
"A new report found that 76% of old growth forests had been logged since World War II, and the remainder would largely disappear within fifteen years at current rates."
"Bush later opposed special laws to help those who would lose jobs due to environmental legislation. "
"Many small mills were forced to lay off workers, whether due to raw log exports, genuine timber shortages, or increased mechanization. "
You should also be upset about private timber land being turned into massive housing developments. (weyerhaeuser/quadrant homes).
We were locked out when they started gating logging roads that WE paid for.
The answer is yes. However, there are some here who would vote for him again and those are the real idiots.
Bankmaggot needs to do his homework. The GOP of late never saw a forest they didn't want to cut. Never saw a resource that shouldn't be exploited. Look up Dick Cheney Klamath fish kill before you vote next time.
I've done my homework, maybe you should try some reading comprehension The fact is the Democrats fucked timber communities in the ass in the 90's. I'm sure you guys who consider where I live to be your weekend playground think that's wonderful. We on the other hand are still suffering from this and probably will never recover as a community. I say great and have your fun, eventually the Democrats will restrict these playgrounds to the point that only a handful of envirogeeks will be allowed, and you'll be locked out as well.
Its the same Democrats who never fail to to promote more legislation to restrict firearms, restrict hunting, or restricting access on public lands, not the Republicans. Any hunter, gun owner, fisherman, or off roader who votes for a Democrat needs have an immediate psych eval for suicidal ideations in my opinion
Yep.
The folks you're preaching to were still chitting their diapers and suckin' mommas titt when logging took a dive here.....they couldn't pour piss from a boot but they know where the local REI is.
"A new report found that 76% of old growth forests had been logged since World War II, and the remainder would largely disappear within fifteen years at current rates."
A new report by who? The Sierra Club?
Btw trees grow back. Once logged they are replanted like any other crop
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Bush later opposed special laws to help those who would lose jobs due to environmental legislation. "
At least he didn't take away people's living, then replace them with low paying service jobs. Still I'd like to see what else that was attached the legislation before I pass judgement
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Many small mills were forced to lay off workers, whether due to raw log exports, genuine timber shortages, or increased mechanization. "
Things were going very well in 92 until...
Originally Posted By: stlhead
You should also be upset about private timber land being turned into massive housing developments. (weyerhaeuser/quadrant homes).
Really where was this happening? Wasn't a problem here,my county looks pretty similar to the way it looked in 1980 - except a lot less mills. Maybe you guys should wring your hands and regulate your own backyards and leave mine alone.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
We were locked out when they started gating logging roads that WE paid for.
You were locked out in most cases because others chose to dump garbage, meth making materials, stole private property, damaged private property, or were presenting a fire hazard. You ever heard of walking or riding a bike around the gates btw? Granted the forest patrol guys might look at you sternly and make you cry but sometimes it's worth the risk.
How about I pay for a footpath through your front yard? I'll use it whenever I like, leave behind garbage and dangerous chemicals, vandalize your lawn, steal your garden gnome, and trash your private vehicles in the name of "saving the environment". How long will it be before you cut off all access to your yard?
Originally Posted By: stlhead
If you fish you should be thankful.
I am thankful. Thankful that real men like me cut the trees, built the roads, and maintained the forest so granola munching, starbucks drinking, Seattle metrosexual types like you can enjoy them.
The answer is yes. However, there are some here who would vote for him again and those are the real idiots.
Bankmaggot needs to do his homework. The GOP of late never saw a forest they didn't want to cut. Never saw a resource that shouldn't be exploited. Look up Dick Cheney Klamath fish kill before you vote next time.
I've done my homework, maybe you should try some reading comprehension The fact is the Democrats fucked timber communities in the ass in the 90's. I'm sure you guys who consider where I live to be your weekend playground think that's wonderful. We on the other hand are still suffering from this and probably will never recover as a community. I say great and have your fun, eventually the Democrats will restrict these playgrounds to the point that only a handful of envirogeeks will be allowed, and you'll be locked out as well.
Its the same Democrats who never fail to to promote more legislation to restrict firearms, restrict hunting, or restricting access on public lands, not the Republicans. Any hunter, gun owner, fisherman, or off roader who votes for a Democrat needs have an immediate psych eval for suicidal ideations in my opinion
If the Democrats screwed the logging communities then why did they extend unemployment and benefits to retrain displaced workers? I live in a former logging community. The local mill shut down and all that is left is a resource company with land they will sell to developers. I have ancestors who pioneered Grays Harbor. I fish and I cut trees. I even burn wood. My house is made of wood. Don't you think resources are limited? I even own firearms. I went in the woods looking for chantrelles but the forrest on the hill is so thin there were no more chantrelles. The only thing I like about the timber companies is that they allow recreation. The GOP is for the filthy rich. I'm not rich enough to vote Republican. Screw the NRA and right wingnuts! People who vote Republican and make less than $200K per year should have their heads examined.
maggot, your replies are stereotypical Grays Harbor mentality denial. Trees? plenty, just look around you they're all over, god forbid you should even think about not wearing cork boots. Salmon, hell they're a renewable resource, daddy fished for em, grandpappy fished for em, they just keep a comin'. "it's our way of life". think back to when you were 30, the local A&W drive in was the bees knees, then it turned into a mini mart. Who'd a thunk? And McDonalds? As foreign as a VCR.
The vast majority of timber industry jobs were replaced by mechanization. Mills were bypassed because the best of our logs were being sold in raw form to Japan. I remember reading at the time that Japan was burying them in sand to preserve them knowing we would soon run out. Probably planned to sell them back to us at a nice profit. Logging methods were destroying fish runs. The timber industry admits this now. Logging was happening at such a rapid rate that the remaining jobs would have been gone anyway. But the teabagger types needed something other than plain old greed to blame their lot in life on. If you want to get mad at a Dem get mad at Gary Locke for the Forest and Fish compromise. Fifty foot inner zone stream buffers. That's not even twenty yards. Plus, the timber industry having admitted old logging rules were killing salmon used a loophole in Forest and Fish and rushed in to get permits to log vast amounts under the old rules knowing full well salmon would die while publicly tauting how they had changed their ways.
"Btw trees grow back. Once logged they are replanted like any other crop"
I really like that one. Just wait a few hundred years right? Or else cut a giant and harvest a twig.
"A new report found that 76% of old growth forests had been logged since World War II, and the remainder would largely disappear within fifteen years at current rates."
A new report by who? The Sierra Club?
Btw trees grow back. Once logged they are replanted like any other crop
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Bush later opposed special laws to help those who would lose jobs due to environmental legislation. "
At least he didn't take away people's living, then replace them with low paying service jobs. Still I'd like to see what else that was attached the legislation before I pass judgement
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Many small mills were forced to lay off workers, whether due to raw log exports, genuine timber shortages, or increased mechanization. "
Things were going very well in 92 until...
Originally Posted By: stlhead
You should also be upset about private timber land being turned into massive housing developments. (weyerhaeuser/quadrant homes).
Really where was this happening? Wasn't a problem here,my county looks pretty similar to the way it looked in 1980 - except a lot less mills. Maybe you guys should wring your hands and regulate your own backyards and leave mine alone.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
We were locked out when they started gating logging roads that WE paid for.
You were locked out in most cases because others chose to dump garbage, meth making materials, stole private property, damaged private property, or were presenting a fire hazard. You ever heard of walking or riding a bike around the gates btw? Granted the forest patrol guys might look at you sternly and make you cry but sometimes it's worth the risk.
How about I pay for a footpath through your front yard? I'll use it whenever I like, leave behind garbage and dangerous chemicals, vandalize your lawn, steal your garden gnome, and trash your private vehicles in the name of "saving the environment". How long will it be before you cut off all access to your yard?
Originally Posted By: stlhead
If you fish you should be thankful.
I am thankful. Thankful that real men like me cut the trees, built the roads, and maintained the forest so granola munching, starbucks drinking, Seattle metrosexual types like you can enjoy them.
no doudt the very best rebuttal to qoutes EVER!!! BM1 you and BigStick know how to bake .
I guess brewer wants to add himself to the dim bulb club. I hate doing peoples homework for them, especially those who don't apply themselves, but I will this one time:
Originally Posted By: Brewer
Originally Posted By: bankmaggot1
Originally Posted By: stlhead
Not very well.
"A new report found that 76% of old growth forests had been logged since World War II, and the remainder would largely disappear within fifteen years at current rates."
A new report by who? The Sierra Club? Nope. The Interagency Scientific Committee (National Park Service, the Forest Service, the FWS, and the BLM)
Btw trees grow back. Once logged they are replanted like any other crop
We talked about that BS statement. Idiotic.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Bush later opposed special laws to help those who would lose jobs due to environmental legislation. "
At least he didn't take away people's living, then replace them with low paying service jobs. Still I'd like to see what else that was attached the legislation before I pass judgement
The timber industry itself took away peoples living. I'll let you look it up for yourself. Also look at Healthy Forests Initiative for an example of Timber industry hogwash.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
"Many small mills were forced to lay off workers, whether due to raw log exports, genuine timber shortages, or increased mechanization. "
Things were going very well in 92 until...
"During the Great Depression, Aberdeen was hit hard, reducing the number of major saw mills from 37 to 9. Mill owners hired Filipino and Jewish immigrants to keep wages low in order to stay in business. The timber industry continued to boom, but by the late 1970s most of the timber had been logged. Most of the mills were closing down by the 1970s and 1980s.
Salmon runs dwindled as spawning grounds were destroyed and rivers filled with silt. The Satsop Nuclear Plant was built in 1978, creating thousands of construction jobs with the promise of permanent employment once the plant was complete. The project was aborted in 1982, doubling the unemployment rate almost overnight. " Don't know your own history huh?
Originally Posted By: stlhead
You should also be upset about private timber land being turned into massive housing developments. (weyerhaeuser/quadrant homes).
Really where was this happening? Wasn't a problem here,my county looks pretty similar to the way it looked in 1980 - except a lot less mills. Maybe you guys should wring your hands and regulate your own backyards and leave mine alone.
I already told you where to look for info....Quadrant homes. Weyerhaeuser has been a land developer for several decades now.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
We were locked out when they started gating logging roads that WE paid for.
You were locked out in most cases because others chose to dump garbage, meth making materials, stole private property, damaged private property, or were presenting a fire hazard. You ever heard of walking or riding a bike around the gates btw? Granted the forest patrol guys might look at you sternly and make you cry but sometimes it's worth the risk.
All I can say to that one is what an idiot. Get on your trike and go for a ride.
How about I pay for a footpath through your front yard? I'll use it whenever I like, leave behind garbage and dangerous chemicals, vandalize your lawn, steal your garden gnome, and trash your private vehicles in the name of "saving the environment". How long will it be before you cut off all access to your yard?
So now you think you own the forests? The more you type the lower your IQ appears.
Originally Posted By: stlhead
If you fish you should be thankful.
I am thankful. Thankful that real men like me cut the trees, built the roads, and maintained the forest so granola munching, starbucks drinking, Seattle metrosexual types like you can enjoy them.
Don't live in Seattle. Most likely been around in our forests long before you were an egg. In my younger days I was a lineman. In college I was a lineman in the summer and worked for Whatcom county parks gaffing up trees, felling them and turning them into firewood. Maybe Termite would be a more fitting than maggot?
no doudt the very best rebuttal to qoutes EVER!!! BM1 you and BigStick know how to bake .
The Gubmit didn't shaft the Timber Workers, the Timber Industry shafted the Timber Workers and blamed it on Environmental Laws that wouldn't let them clear cut National Parks and Wildlife Refuges, because they were all out of everything else. The timber industry used the loggers, truckers and millers as long as they were needed, and when they ran out of timber, they tossed them aside and left the government holding the bag for retraining and welfare.
Slimy Slade's last big gift to the industry was his "Salvage Rider" that used such loosely worded terminology that it opened up the last reserves of USFS land to Weyerhauser, Simpson, Menasha, and Pope & Talbot.
And one last thing--Trees only take a few decades to grow back, but healthy forests take hundreds of years to grow back. That thing about not seeing the forest for the trees sums up conservative short sightedness and greed. It only takes a matter of years of silt, sunlight and log jams for a salmon run to be completely exterminated in a stream system.
Direct answer: Yes, GW was (and still is) an idiot.
Now, pardon me while I jack the thread momentarily.
Idiot or no, I don't blame GW personally for the travesties that passed through Congress during his tenure (although he certainly benefitted financially from some of it), much like I don't blame Obama for the recent legislation of which I have not been fond. Yes, the POTUS is a powerful figurehead, but he is still, first and foremost, a figurehead in the end. He is the one that delivers the message to the public, but it is Congress and the Supreme Court that have the final say in 99% of the hand we are dealt every term.
With that, I believe we should rate the Legislative and Judicial branches rather than the Executive.
On another note, I think this thread points out the ills of the two-party system (as if we needed more evidence on that front). I think if the vast majority of us really looked closely at the constantly moving targets that are our preferred party platforms, we would find that we disagree with at least a few of the stands taken by our chosen parties. Likely, it is our passion for specific issues that leads us to side with one or the other, but in doing so, we all cheat ourselves.
Take, for example, our friend Bankmaggot. He apparently has good reason to hate the Democrats, yet, being a working class guy (I'm assuming here - forgive me if I'm wrong), he likely doesn't benefit from the side of the Republican platform that works to make the rich richer. When he goes to the voting booth, he is forced to decide which of his interests is most important and turn his back on many of the others, all of which are likely nearly as important to him. The rest of us, whether we call ourselves Democrats or Republicans, are faced with the same dilemma.
Do I know how to fix it? Nah. Not really. By adding a third party, we would only introduce a new set of compromises. Popular vote on all issues seems to be the only way to truly enact the will of the general public, but that is hopelessly unrealistic, for too many reasons. As usual, in the end, a post about politics has amounted to little more than pointless whining.
I like the mention of the sale of our best timber to Japan. That whole thing is so typical of the short-sightedness of America's never-ending quest for the almighty dollar. If you ever find yourself looking for a reason why a gross injustice was allowed to occur, you need look no further than the fact that somebody influential profitted from it.
You know what I am talking about AM. Old growth is not renewable in our life time. Try finding the quality of lumber we had 30 - 40 years ago.
Its not really all that hard to find as most of the Old growth was cut prior to that. Want to know why the lumber is all smaller now, because thats what all of the mills have been optimized to do for tree farm wood. There is still alot of big timber around here in Oregon.. One just has to know where to find it.
In the big picture which some like to conveniently avoid or ignore, there is a huge difference between old growth and second growth, it is much farther reaching than circumference alone.
I like the mention of the sale of our best timber to Japan. That whole thing is so typical of the short-sightedness of America's never-ending quest for the almighty dollar. If you ever find yourself looking for a reason why a gross injustice was allowed to occur, you need look no further than the fact that somebody influential profitted from it.
Sometime back I ran a thread on timber. Going back fishing but as one who retired from 39 years in timber some of these post are somewhat fantasy land.
Export of raw logs began to San Fran after the earthquake way back when. I recent times it was the Columbus day storm that flattened things and the Japs bought it cheap, timber companies then started selling the best to them which killed off most local saw mills. Export rapidly increased the rate of harvest ( acreage ) as the money was in raw logs not a finished product. As to mechanization yes it had impacts. Once a side ( spar tree, crew, ect ) had over 50 men associated with it. Then came trucks, less. Steel towers, less jobs again, on and on. The mechanization was and is driven by timber size primarily, enviromental laws next, and tree farms on 40 year rotations. In other words you build lots of road ( about 6 miles to a section now with new rules ) so you can use cable shovels and shovels themselves to log as the giant Skagit slacklines and GT5 grapples are long gone. It is radio chokers, feller buncher, short yarding for fiber that is not measured in bd feet but Cunits which is squared chunk of wood fiber.
The treefarms, began by Weyco at Montesano with the Clemons farm, are on 40 year rotations ( or less ) so the impact are greater now than in the old days. Lot to this part but the R map stuff is going to get a 5 year extension and they want it to 2030. Oh, R Map are the new rules to save fish.
The logging on Forest Service land began with Gifford Pinchot and was to supply timber for jobs as the privately owned timber holdings were nearly gone. It was intended to be temporary until private holdings matured and never at the level it was done. The owl thing was bs as the argument was the harvest of old growth which had been moved well past where it should.
Put it this way, in my 62 years I have been in a forest only twice. Otherwise I worked in the woods for 40 years on tree farms. They are not forest, not intended to be forest, and will never be forest again. What they are is large scale, long term, commercial agriculture on a 35 to 40 year crop rotation.
Bankmaggot is a classic example of exactly what I said in my first post.
A "low information" voter who has been duped into voting against his own self-interest by those who count on him being easily manipulated and distracted with hating the "others"... in this case democrats and probably brown people and Muslims too.
That's what happens when all you watch is FOX News.
- The DOW was at about 7,400. Today it's at 10,860.
- Ford stock sold at about $1.80. Today it sold for $12.56
- GM existed. Today GM exists - yes, with a bailout. If Bush were president for another 4 years, it still would have needed a bailout.
- Unemployment was about 7%. Today it's around 10%. If Bush were president for another 4 years would unemployment rates be different? Why?
- America had suffered its worst on-continent attack. Since Bush left office, we have not suffered another attack anywhere close to that one.
- There was no plan for paying for the wars his administration started. Today, there is no plan for paying for the wars his administration started.
- There was no plan for replacing revenue lost when his administration's tax cuts expired. Today, there is no plan for replacing revenue lost when his administration's tax cuts expire.
Because he wasn't a socialistic Muzzie Kenyan borned POS ?
Anything he created that you can point to as a sustained positive impact?
He aint Obama. Duh.
He aint Reagan or his father, either.
He was a a good president because...?
Banned Partial Birth Abortion. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains. Signed two income tax cuts. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year. No child left behind.
Bush isn't an idiot, but he was a stooge in a big game he didn't have the noggin for.
Obama is getting an education in what it's like to be a stooge in a bigger game than he was prepared for right now.
Of course, the voters are the biggest stooges because they insist on buffing the helmets of half the people that have been bending them over for decades.
Be sure to let me know when a Democrat OR Republican rights this ship. Only the American worker/inventor/entrepeneur can right this ship, and only if the elected corporate stooges give them the opportunity to do so.
My bet is on corporate money winning the battle with Joe Sixpack........mostly because Joe Sixpack will back the corporation against himself.
Bush isn't an idiot, but he was a stooge in a big game he didn't have the noggin for.
Obama is getting an education in what it's like to be a stooge in a bigger game than he was prepared for right now.
Of course, the voters are the biggest stooges because they insist on buffing the helmets of half the people that have been bending them over for decades.
Be sure to let me know when a Democrat OR Republican rights this ship. Only the American worker/inventor/entrepeneur can right this ship, and only if the elected corporate stooges give them the opportunity to do so.
My bet is on corporate money winning the battle with Joe Sixpack........mostly because Joe Sixpack will back the corporation against himself.
Dan knows WTF he is talking about.
Dont let any of the dumbasses on the darkside know........
He was able to convince all of the intelligence agencies in the Western World and the majority of Congress there were WMD's in Iraq. That in itself begs the question "Who were the idiots?"
You have something there, Hankster
My biggest problem with W was his gross misuse of American military power, when he chose to invade Iraq.
You just can't help yourself when it comes to denigrating the lives of our veterans to argue cheap political cover for the GOP, and the Neocons, can ya ?
You simply have no shame, and no regard for human life.
Listen you little phucking cumguzzler. When you go to war and fight for your life, come back and tell me what it was like.
what i dont understand hank is why you let that dude get you all worked up...hes classic arrogant leftist, with college brain. actually it makes me laugh...keep up the good fight.
yea, terrible and evil GWB, liberating all those iraqi's from that nut-case saddam. The only thing GWB couldve done better was being completely honest about his motives. first and foremost, freeing the iraqi people from one bent a$$ dictator, secondly, all that oil, gathering resources. what a dick.
Well Hank I think you pretty much captured who KK is. Nothing wrong with Lib's as they move us forward be it kicking and screaming. Then you you have self righteous SOB's that have zero idea what is to have your best friend bleed out on your back as your try to make an LZ and Dust Off. So all will know ............I did that.
Relax guy ignorant shits have and will rail around political BS. KK has long since lost the ability to look at a issue minus prejudice. Anyway guy relax put forth good ( or bad ) opinions. That is what a 23 year old black kid from Detroit died for so many years ago as I failed to make the run in time. Unlike KK I DO NOT FORGET.
rivrguy: plus one thousand Hank: leftard. all liberals arent bad, but all leftist are. smiley faced facists. think the bigger the govt the better. think 'crats know whats best for the unwashed massed (you and i according to them) it leads to fights, big ones. so i understand, i live in walla walla washington. home of the latest wine boom, and whitman college, this town got lefted so fast it would make your head spin. in 7 years this town went from a pretty conservative bias, to a leftist/liberal elitist. its place place seattlites go to escape the piss stench of thier own rotten city.
-- Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.
-- Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.
-- Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community's uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.
-- The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.
While I feel that Iraq war was (is) wrong based on cost and net value to the US, it really gets disgustingly old seeing lock stepping lefties run away with their keyboards. This vid always keeps things real. Your lefty heroes shared the same goddamn beliefs as the Repubs based on the intelligence available at the time. Don't buy the revisionist bullshitt that these vile hate filled propagandists spew.
No aunty, He has been doing a lot of San Fran fund raising for the D's. It has left a bad taste in his mouth and he lost his donut to sit on. Taking a seat to type has been real tough on him making him cranky.
Having verified that Bush is an idiot, it looks like there was nothing left to do in this thread except for KK to go trolling for neocons. The funny thing is, he hooks a limit every time out. I don't know why you guys continue to be such suckers, or maybe getting hooked by an obvious troller is what you do for entertainment. I wish fishing for salmon and steelhead were as productive.
Just read this start to finish Need drugs for the cramps in my face. Thanks for the laughs BUSH IS A IDIOT He did pull off 2 terms so the people that ran that puppet got what they wanted. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I don't think it was GW's drive and intelligence that earned him the keys to the Oval Office. I'm fairly certain it was nepotism, and an especially atrocious example of it at that. Everything GW has "accomplished" throughout his career has been on the coattails of his old man.
I think most of us can easily think of a few people we've worked with that had absolutely no business being in their positions. In this world, who you know will get you a LOT further than what you know, and GW should be the poster boy for that reality.
The man was, and still is, an idiot, albeit a rich and "successful" one.
A poll taken recently in Ohio - where obama convincingly beat McCain in 2008 - shows that the people in Ohio would rather have Bush as president right now than obama by a margin of 50% to 42%!
(Not to mention details on his band-aid Purple Hearts)
you know this is bullchit. why do republicans support candidates who did everything possible to avoid serving... and then attack those who actually did serve?
attack, attack, attack... seems to be the republican motto. i guess when you have no ideas attacking is the only way to get power back.
Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.
Gawd that's some funny chit...didn't Kerry also lie about being some where he wasn't on Christmas day ?
You gullible lads were swift boated. Weren't we just discussing people becoming dumber?
A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of his three purple hearts.
But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records.
One of the accusers says he was on another boat "a few yards" away during the incident which won Kerry the Bronze Star, but the former Army lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water that day backs Kerry's account. In an Aug. 10 opinion piece in the conservative Wall Street Journal, Rassmann (a Republican himself) wrote that the ad was "launched by people without decency" who are "lying" and "should hang their heads in shame."
And on Aug. 19, Navy records came to light also contradicting the accusers. One of the veterans who says Kerry wasn't under fire was himself awarded a Bronze Star for aiding others "in the face of enemy fire" during the same incident.
Now where were we.......oh yeah the subject was idiots.
And that's pretty much what you get when dealing with Chickenhawks. I recall Bush telling people not to listen to McCain, because he had been brainwashed by his NVA captors.
As a four year Navy veteran and another 25 years in the Air Guard Avionics Flightline Division, I can say beyond any shadow of a doubt that there are indeed idiot pilots. So GW wasn't alone in that regard. Just like in any profession where you have good ones, and then some not so good.
Both were born with silver spoons.... One went, one didn't. The folks supporting the one that didn't, had to try to discredit the one that did.
If this is true, I have to take my hat off to the guy :
American Swift Boat tactics in the Mekong were such that they cruised the waterways trying to draw enemy fire. Once enemy fire was drawn, the Swift Boats would land several hundred meters away from the source of the fire and then try to engage the enemy on foot. By the time the counter-attackers reached the ambush site, the enemy was gone, in many instances. It has been reported that Kerry was one of the first to land his boats at the source of the fire, and then deal with the enemy before he had a chance to slip away.
It's too bad that when we hear the words "Swift Boat" now, we think of all this political crap. A childhood friend was a gunner on a Swift Boat and it was not a cakewalk. We heard about his first kill and after that he didn't say much.
"You could crouch behind the armor plate, but if they had a .51 it was coming right through."
I don't know about today's all volunteer military, but in the 60s VN it was routine to hand off responsibility for million dollar equipment to 19 year old draftees, idiots or not, and many were. And that was the same time that GW and his silver spoon was flying some piece of Air Guard equipment.
And that's pretty much what you get when dealing with Chickenhawks. I recall Bush telling people not to listen to McCain, because he had been brainwashed by his NVA captors.
And that's pretty much what you get when dealing with Chickenhawks. I recall Bush telling people not to listen to McCain, because he had been brainwashed by his NVA captors.
Do you have any corraborating evidence?
Do you live under a rock? Try paying a little bit closer attention to what is going on around you, we already know you don't know sh1t about the Iran Contra Affair. But Aunty is correct is was Carl Rove who said don't listen to McCain because he was brainwashed by the NVA.
I know lots of pilots, and let me assure you...........you most certainly CAN be an idiot and fly an F-102. In fact, they'll even let you fly a jet that they've loaded with 300 oblivious people.
Pilot skills and idiocy aren't mutually exclusive.
As a four year Navy veteran and another 25 years in the Air Guard Avionics Flightline Division, I can say beyond any shadow of a doubt that there are indeed idiot pilots.
One of my closest friends from High School joined the USAF right after graduation.
He's now an E-7 with a diamond and a year away from retirement.
According to him, USAF pilots are the biggest idiots he's ever met. Maybe its because he has to train them.
Personally, I've personally met pilots stationed at McChord AFB. One was a coke whore. Why coke? I asked... "Because it's out of my system after a few days." She replied.
It has already been proven that GWB has a low IQ and was a barely adequate student at best who obviously got some familiar sholastic "help".......but like Captain Ron in that old Kurt Russell movie.................. "he is far more cunning than earlier suspected".
YAY!
(wheres the grasshoper icon)
stlhead
