Where's the surveilance thread?

I'm surprised there isn't one, or else I missed seeing it. For the last week there's been constant news about the gov't recording all communications meta data, and Prez Obama even said there is strict oversight, and that it's necessary to give up a little individual privacy in order to combat terrorism and increase our security. I've been mildly fuming since that story broke. Now in the news is the guy, Edward Snowden, former CIA and recent Booz Allen gov't consultant, outed himself as the source for the Guardian article. OK, so he's the whistleblower. But then the radio has been abuzz all day about the gov't trying to hunt this guy down, extradite him, maybe charge him with treason. WTF? The gov't is violating the 4th Amendment rights of over 300 million Americans, a major crime if ever there was one, and the gov't is saying the whistleblower may be charged with treason. This is getting crazier than a looney tune cartoon. So much for our federal whistleblower protection laws. Snowden is a national hero.

Is he not?

I don't know who's who in this zoo.
What's next?

Hello NSA aka Salmo, today I looked at various fishing NW sites well really the big two, PP and another one that papa takes care of. Also browsed /Misc/ and /fit/ and google news but you already knew that.



yeah I am pissed as hell mr salmo g

It's not apathy Salmo, at least not from me, but moreso my knowledge that complaints or acknowledgement of these types of issues fall on deaf ears here.
There are a coupe few folks like Dogfish or Driftin that get it, but the rest of the blowhards here aren't worth discussing the issue with. so I figure.... Why bother?

I've known about this for years..ever since I read about the AT&T whistle blower spoke up in 2007 about the bulk splitter on AT&T fiber carrying all traffic going into a black room... and later corroborated the story with people I knew.

The problem is that the government answers to no one. The people in charge of these program are immune from scrutiny. The government itself can spy of dissenters, political foes, etc.. because they have the keys to the kingdom, so why would they care to change? My observation based on how the current administration has dealt with previous issues: They are embarrassed to be forced to acknowledge the program, and will bury it as soon as possible.

There was a big thread, but the NSA took it.

I'm naive and a Polly Anna, but I thought this is so egregious that the gov't will have to back off. If we want this sort of security blanket at the cost of the 4th Amendment, it's needs to be subject to a transparent national debate, and codified by that bunch of criminals we call Congress.

I'm mad as hell! Just thought I'd share that.

Salmo, did it come as a surprise?

this is just the tip of the iceberg, and most of your anger is probably because you just found out you have been getting rammed your entire life by the people that are supposed to be FOR the people... but are actually for themselves...

the government doesnt care about you, you are a burden to them... we always will be....

Umm...I think I started a thread the morning after NSA Prism broke. Per usual, I was ahead of my time

Seriously - nobody but a couple of REAL men posted in that thread. What's up ya pansies? You chickens afraid the "man" is watching? Bwakakak Bwwaaakakak!!!

I guess I "get it" that most don't want to believe that ill winds are blowing, and like most things in today's society....."If it ain't in my face, it's someone else's problem." Few will risk and the majority will just watch and hope there is something good in the outcome for them.

What a team.

Monitoring our communications pr-dates what has come to the attention of the general public. For years now our government has filtered and monitored phone calls,fax's and later cell and internet transmissions.

Part of the contract to buy, lease or own spectrum in the country involves language that requires the buyer to "throttle down" speeds and make it available for the Feds to monitor transmissions. This has been done so that the government can monitor the communications. In more recent years companies tried to cash in on throttling and have people pay more for faster service, which would have worked in the Feds favor so did not see much opposition until the general public got involved.

Ever travel to other countries and wondered why their internet is so much faster? No throttling.

I was in satellite communications in the military and was astounded by some of the things I learned. I am sure it has gotten a lot more invasive and egregious since I got out.

Fishy

So you are telling me my slow internet speed isn't the Porn's fault? NICE. Keep calm and spank on.

Hero? I would say he's a stand up citizen that did the right thing, hero, nah.

No......this makes them look bad. They will follow this poor bastard to the ends of the earth. Be lucky if he does not get droned to protect the POS, I mean POTUS(I keep forgetting the "TU"). It will all be for "national security" though. Ya national security and the children.

Don't worry...McCain's got your back, Salmo.

http://dailycurrant.com/2013/06/10/john-mccain-calls-for-invasion-of-hong-kong/

John McCain Calls For Invasion of Hong Kong
Jun. 10, 2013

U.S. Senator John McCain called for the invasion of Hong Kong today in response to recent leaks about secret surveillance programs.

In an interview with BBC World News, the hawkish Republican said that by hosting the leaker, Edward Snowden, Hong Kong has proven itself to be an enemy of the United States.

"Either you're with us or you're against us," McCain explained to anchor Freddie Lyon, "and clearly the nation of Hong Kong is against us. By harboring this known cybercriminal they pose a clear and present danger to the American people.

"I don't want to hear about extradition or rendition or any of that nonsense. This man is a traitor and if we don't get him within 24 hours I say we need to start bombing the hell out of Hong Kong.

"Luckily this is a tiny country with no real military to speak of. I don't expect any resistance. We could probably destroy their infrastructure and occupy the entire country by the end of the week."

The Chinese Connection

Hong Kong is a former British colony that is now a Special Administrative Region of China. Although it has wide autonomy in domestic matters, defense and foreign affairs are the province of China - which has the world's second most powerful military after the United States.

John McCain, however, has a long history of advocating greater U.S. military involvement abroad, vociferously supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and calling for airstrikes in Syria.

The former 2008 presidential candidate has also been a vocal critic of China, but his willingness to use military force against a protectorate of Beijing is nevertheless a surprise to many. Yet in the interview McCain was unapologetic and said the U.S. shouldn't stop at an invasion.

"After we take Hong Kong and capture Snowden, we need to seriously think about annexing the territory,' he continued, "they have a world class port, a great stockmarket, and the best dim sum in the world. I don't know why China should have all of that and not us.

"If we had a military base in Hong Kong we could keep a close eye on what the Chinese are up to. We could station missiles that would be only minutes away from Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Tianjin - all the major cities. And finally we'd have a place where we could move the Guantanamo inmates.

"Sure it will be a difficult adjustment at first. But everyone already speaks English, so half our work is done. In time Hong Kongers will come to love our rule - just like the Hawaiians, the Filipinos, and the Afghans."

John McCain has served as a senator from Arizona since 1987. He was the Republican candidate for president in 2008, a contest he lost to Barack Obama.

******************

Really, though...the only part about this that is surprising to me is that anyone is surprised by it...it started before the Patriot Act, and really ramped up with it, but it's nothing new.

Fish on...

Todd

It was a J O K E! McCain never said it, and the source was The Onion for krisesake!!

He does need to retire.

You mean McCain didn't really say that stuff about invading Hong Kong?

Who knew?

Thanks for the heads up, I appreciate it.

Fish on...

Todd

All this scandels will drag on until they are swept under the rug

I first saw it on a link this morning from the Onion before this post was made.

I'm with Ryley and FP on this. If this story was news to you, you are part of the intentionally uninformed, which is still better than the 75% that are STILL unaware and/or would support it in the name of the children.

I think its comical to watch the engineered character assassination attempts come out in the media now against Snowden. Senators, pundits etc are all calling Snowden a traitor in a plain attempt to divert attention away from his disclosure. Denial is often the preface to justification. For the citizens of our country there is no justification, no national security assertion, that should dissuade us from the premise that our current government, in listening to every phone call and reading every transmission on the internet, is violating the fundamental Constitutional rights of American citizens.

ITT the usual know it all suspects sat idly at their computers waiting for the big chance to tell everyone else I told you so!

Tech Companies Tread Lightly in Statements on U.S. Spying

Someone’s not telling the whole truth.

In the wake of the news leak that the National Security Agency is engaged in a wide-ranging surveillance program of Internet users through a system called Prism, the world’s biggest technology companies responded by unilaterally denying any involvement in the government’s spying apparatus.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/tech-companies-tread-lightly-in-statements-on-u-s-spying/?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Ftechnology%2Findex.jsonp

Fishy

even if you just went up in the woods and cut off all communications to the world like Jeremiah Johnson, if the US wanted to, they could still spy on you by flying a drone with heat recognition and infared tech and watch you up there....

basically they have been lying to you for your entire life, and longer...

so what else have they been lying about?

9/11?

.

that was kinda a joke Hank...

but seriously, what else have they been lying about? they government could probably control the stock market with some tactics dont ya think? maybe cause it to crash and bring americans to their knees?

oh wait, something like that already happened a long ass time ago... so they already have done it before....


edit for some history fun... who said it?

" I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies.. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, the banks and coporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.."

this isnt a clue, but the government is a corporation...

With few exceptions I'd wager that the government's first inclination is to always share nothing, then to share something that's not the whole truth, then to share something that's moderately truthful...and that's about as truthful and forthcoming as they are ever going to be.

Fish on...

Todd

Word.

So about that social revolt . . .

Never gonna happen, we're all too comfortable. If our kids were starving, it'd be different - then we have nothing to loose.

Besides, all Todd's friends came and took my guns away last night

more spying...


http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/201...s-records?lite=

The Unraveling Begins: Moments ago, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration over its "dragnet" collection of logs of domestic phone calls, contending that the once-secret program is illegal and asking a judge to both stop it and order the records purged. And, as the NYT reports, "the lawsuit, filed in New York, could set up an eventual Supreme Court test."

Oh, and this: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/g...rporations.html

Well I must give the guy credit. He kept his promise of working across the aisle and getting R's and D's to work together

I may even send the ACLU a check!

I'd go with "already knew" and "hero" both...though anyone who is surprised by this eavesdropping program must have been under a heavy rock for the past thirteen years.

Fish on...

Todd

We live in the times of an electronic Herbert Hoover

That's to FN funny!





Fishy

Glad to hear about the ACLU lawsuit. I might just send 'em a check too.

Early in this thread I or anyone who didn't know the gov't. was snooping was called naive. Surely I'm naive, but I knew the gov't. was snooping, but I really didn't think it was this broad and pervasive. Apparently I wasn't alone in that. And I've been anti-Patriot Act since before it was passed into law.

What bothers me now is that a lot of Americans think Snowden is a traitor for revealing classified information when he was bound by a non-disclosure agreement in his employment, or just for releasing classified information, period. But the Supreme Court has previously ruled that a law that is unConstitutional is void, and therefore isn't violated. I don't know what charges the gov't. is planning on trumping up against Snowden, since he hasn't done anything illegal. It's the U.S. gov't. that has done the illegal action, first by passing the Patriot Act in violation of the Constitution, and subsequently all the NSA spying. I think FISA passes Constitutional muster, and I've never heard of it being challenged.

I hope the ACLU lawsuit is successful, and that the gov't. has to stop this BS and has to purge the records collected. That would be a large part of my version of UP THE REVOLUTION!!

This will certainly be interesting to see how all of this plays out. The owners have way too much invested in these control schemes to just walk away from them. Their first priority will be to purge the MSM of stories to get this out of the public eye ASAP.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/nsa-prism-verizon-surveillance/

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1

do they have Wi-Fi?


sounds like my kind of library...

I hope he has a looker like that. I read he made 200K per year. If I made that much I would have at least 4 ladies like that.....

As much as I tend to like FP, good move on not giving him your address....just ask DanS.

He's right.

FP doesn't need you to give him your address - he already knows sh!t like that. Apparently he's a little smarter than most of us around here.

I did want to quote this one, though, as it is vintage FP

" I have the VIP Gold Library Card "

Of course you do, man...............and we'd expect nothing less.

its not that hard to do Dan... you just have to be an asshole

Here Is a new article from wired.com that really lays it out. What a can of worms this is. IMO we need a certain level of security but there is a huge potential for serious abuse. Can't imagine the power trip it would be for some of the psychopaths in both the private sector and government to be able to put anyone of interest to them under the cyber microscope.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/general-keith-alexander-cyberwar/

There were tons of small private contractors that has access to this info too.

Like a public employee is any more responsible with my info than a private contractor. The fact that they work for the federal govern would make me more worried.


Bottom line-I dont give a rats ass if it is a public or private employee. Stay the hell out of anything of mine without a warrant and even then if I have a good lawyer.

You missed my point, I was just mentioning that there were a lot of people who had access, not that one company or another was more of a danger of abusing info.

If freedom means anything, then

Liberty trumps security. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts, or compromise. Some things are that simple.

wtf?

and Americans cant even say the Pledge of Allegiance in school anymore because it says GOD in it....

so, why do they get imunity? im pretty sure that the FBI watches the Westboro Baptists and their memebers? regardless of how much of nutcases they are, they are still a church....

Natron, if you went to school, you would know they still say the pledge of allegiance, with the word "God" in it. At least in the schools around here they do.

so then the whole ban on it on the entire west coast and other states was lifted? something about "under god" being a violation of constitutional rights due to religion aspects... i remember it was in the SUpreme Court not terribly long ago, dont pay attention too much anymore tho, i stopped saying it in the 6th grade....

maybe if we stopped letting the "terrorist" in, we wouldnt get attacked... the FBI and CIA know EXACTLY who they are letting into this country, and even ones with ties, they still let them in, and then bust them after they gave them a fake bomb or whatnot... or, they dont do it quick enough and we have the Marathon bombing...

its like they intentionally shoot themselves in the foot, and then complain about it afterwards... the government should change its name to Plaxico Burress...

that says alot right there...


I was at my son's school the other day, the pledge that was recited over the loud speaker and in the room, still had "under God" in it...

Just sayin...

yes it does... it says that only Highlands Elementary in the Renton Highlands actually did it, McKnight didnt, and neither did Hazen... not sure if Maplewood, or Dimmitt, or Liberty, or RHS even did either...

and the reason it still had "under God" in it, is because the ban was overturned, as previously stated...

I thought it says 'I quit going to school in 6th grade'

thats because you didnt pay attention in school, if you did, you would be able to read correctly....

I'm so smart. I can read between the lines...

Wow, that was fast. I just looked over the front page of several MSM news online front pages, US News,CBS, NBC,ABC,Yahoo,CNN and FOX. They all scrubbed any mention of the "spying scandal" except for FOX which is pushing the "Does Edward Snowden pose a threat to national security?" spin. Funny how this started as an Obama scandal but when the tracks led back to the NSA the gate keepers went into high gear to sweep it under the media rug. Move on....nothing to see here.

Yet somehow, many think Snowden is the bad guy. WTF?

That's because former Vice President Dick Cheney and former CIA and National Security Agency head Michael Hayden said the government's reliance on data collection from both Americans and foreign nationals was constitutional and carefully overseen by executive, legislative and court authorities. How reassuring.
They have and are utilizing the most powerful propaganda machine in the history of the world, television.

I'm surprised they trotted out the BIG DICK for damage control. Does anyone listen to what he says anymore? Someone must think so. You'll know they are really starting to sweat when they drag out Zbigniew Brzezinski or Henry Kissinger to try to save the day.

You really need to get past the partisan mind set on things like this. Didn't you post a photo shopped pic of Obama that kinda looked like Bush on some thread lately? I thought you might be connecting the dots when you did that,If this country is going to change the path to a fascist police state we are on we all need to put the partisan politics ,that are dividing us, aside and focus on the real threat and that is corruption of our government by mega $ interests.

They are Democrats and Republicans until they are called upon to do the bidding of the richest top .01% at which time they are on the same team. No national politician gets into a key position who is not vetted by this shadow government of the .01%. With the unconstitutional surveillance system that is set up, and being greatly expanded upon, becoming exposed to the light of day the labels of Democrat and Republican are meaningless when applied to those politicians protecting the system. Right now the spying is being justified as defense against foreign enemys but as more and more people become aware of how bad we are being screwed by the criminals that really run this country, Americans will become the enemy that needs to be dealt with and this surveillance system will be invaluable to the few that want to keep the system so much in their favor.

Oh, that's choice.

I suspect he signed some paperwork that forbid him from being a loud mouth about his work. That being the case he is in violation of his oath.
Send Bourne after him.
Tis always amusing that the electorate places the movers and shakers in office and then acts surprised at their behavior.

Personally I don't believe him to be a national hero, and to rank him with
Benedict Arnold does the shade of Arnold a disservice.

Benedict Arnold tried to sell Westpoint to the British.

Snowden blew the whistle on a domestic spying operation that goes thru every level of Gov including the WH, Congress and SCOTUS.

Wee bit of difference!

As for all the news of late I've come to the conclusion that non-Americans have two choices. Either come to America and expedite it's demise from within or stay were you are and get murdered by a Drone Strike!

My native Poland is looking pretty appealing right about now!!

Lol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMPQmIPibE

That...was pretty good.

Fish on...

Todd

I heard a cool thing on the radio the other day. It's unlikely the gov't. will give up on snooping cuz that's just not how gov'ts. work. So what we Americans can do is make the gov'ts. surveilance irrelevant. Make sure you include words like terror, terrorism, pipe bomb, dirty bomb, etc. sprinkled throughout each and every phone call you make. If even one million Americans will do this, NSA will grind to a complete halt when the computers mark all these phone calls for follow up checks. Use those words in every email you send as well. Help the wheels of surveilance collapse under its own weight and grind to a halt.

UP THE REVOLUTION!!

good thing the moon isnt on there...

Right after the first private citizen to citizen phone call was made, somebody was listening in illegally.
Why is this new revelation a surprise?
It didn't take the real terrorists long to figure out someone was listening.

'Tis a shame. Snowden should be making the TV and speaking rounds in the US as a free whistleblower who doesn't have to worry about trumped up charges and being locked up by a government that thinks it can and should be able to criminally violate citizen rights. I mean this is really simple. If the US gov't. doesn't want people blowing this whistle, all it has to do is refrain from violating its citizens' constitutional rights. A few things are this simple.

Hank,

I guess it depends on what the secrets are that he gave to foreign gov'ts. If it was the "secret" that the US gov't is spying on everyone, I don't begrudge him that. If it was strategic intelligence other than PRISM and phone call meta data that undermines US security, then that's a different conversation.

Sg

There are two things that jump out at me regarding Snowden and this situation.

The first is that I'm amazed anybody would ever again think that Government is competent at anything they do. Some of the countries deepest, darkest secrets walked out of the country in the briefcase of a contract worker?? And we think they are competent at running ____________ too?? Not only can this Government not keep an eye on their own spies/analyst's they can't even find a way to get them on the payroll! Boy that just gives me a warm/fuzzy.

The second thing is this line of Congress members screaming bloody murder about what a traitor this guy is. Don't they realize that this type of spying/data collection could just as easily be used against them as it could against any of us? Is their hubris so large that they think an embedded organization couldn't use their power against those who only have the job for four to six years? If I where to base my whole campaign on getting rid of the NSA and repeal the PA how far do you think I'd make it before my skeletons where "leaked" out to the whole world?

This whole thing is just another example of Gov governing from election to election without anyone looking at the big picture or where we will be at as a nation in 5, 10 or 20 years from now!!!

Hank, Where is there proof of this other than the talking heads on TV expressing concern that he MAY share info with other countries? IMO that topic is part of the Snowden misinformation/smearjob campaign.