Flossing For Chrome

Well I got a chance to fish the Snohomish today with a gracious host and another friend. We launched at Highbridge and fished a "zipperlip" below the 522 bridge...(hint hint)

I have read postings from Dave Vedder who wonders why the fish in the don't bite and I have read the endless debates over who is flossing and who is not.

Well we were fishing in a spot loaded with Coho. Secondly we were fishing in a tested manner what would require actual biters. We got skunked but had 6 chances to get a fish with all 6 coming unbuttoned early on. I did observe a couple of boats doing quite well and saw said boats back at the parking lot. The common thread amongst the successful anglers was a 7-8' leader and often times corkies and yarn. I watched carefully the techniques of the guys outfishing all of the other 6 boats in the same hole. They all had similar technique of occasionally jerking back on the rod and reeling fast.

Let the flaming begin....All you 50 fish a day guys must have found the only aggressive biters or maybe your techniques and gear were similar to the folks I saw doing the best catching...

A real fun day on a new stretch of water for me. I usually don't get skunked like that but it happens.

Oh and by the way....almost all the fish I saw were getting colored and some were quite dark. A "chromer" was nowhere to be seen.

How is the boating on that stretch of river?? A friend of mne wants me to take him there but I am a novice jet boater and am afraid.

Also, does one anchor or what??

Could someone please tell me whats so bad about flossing, its not like flossed fish are reeled in backwards. Sometimes it just works.

Down from the 522 as you approach Thomas Eddy it gets pretty hairy. There is an area with a lot of logs and shallow water that has my heart in my throat every time I run it. But that's about the only bad spot. Just have to proceed with caution and you'll be fine.

Sorry to hear you did not put one in the box. The technique you were watching is an Alaska technique for flossing. Just another form of snagging, but you can talk yourself into telling the world it was a biter. The leader length helps drastically, does not matter if it is a corkie or dick nite. The Dick Nite is the talk of the town because it is a spoon and all the rock wall fishermen can claim big numbers and call themselves the "expert" Dick Niters. Just the thought of 15 boats in a 4 boat hole keeps me from even going down there even though I can almost see the hole from my house and have "fished" it for 30 years. I just hope we get enough water to push them up river and some peace in their last weeks.
I cannot imagine how many fish have been taken out of that hole without regard to the fish or the sport.
I have heard the fish cops have been watching that hole.

With a little practice, the act of flossing is a perfectly legal and responsible way to fish. You drift just like you would for anything else and with the right angle of the bedangle, ones' hook might just place itself right in the fishes mouth. Then a "jerk" is perfectly legal. If it's a single hook, who the frig cares if the fish hit it or if the hook hit the fish. If it's happens to be sunk anywhere other than the mouth, kindly release it. Otherwise enjoy the ensuing battle. Silvers are perplexing in the snohomish system. If a non-traditional method needs to be employed, so be it.

O sheeet,here we go again!!!

No one said it was not legal. But fishing is about outsmarting the fish and getting them to bite or attack. It just seems that the "new young" additude is "does not matter how" just bonk a bunch. Not the way I was raised to respect the sport.

this will probably ruffle some feathers but here goes. what if there was a maximum leader length? would that stop the flossing debate? nah people would just say your useing wrong something else!!

I dont see any harm in flossing, no the fish dont bite it but it still take plenty of skill to do it right. My thinking is that flossing is not snagging because it hooks them inthe mouth. Any other oppinions?

Barnettm, most people anchor or beach their boat on the Snohomish. A few people troll some sections, but I've almost never seen anyone boondog or pull plugs.

It may or may not be obvious, but the river hazards change a lot based on flow. Right now, it is almost 9000 cfs or about 4 ft on the gage height. That extra 2 ft from a flow of 3000 cfs is a huge difference. Needless to say, if the flow is down aroud 1000 it is basically 0 on the gage or 4 ft less deep! If you stay on step, it is not impossible, but harder to hang up at the higher flows. You still have to know when you can come off step.

Finally, you might want to consider hiring a guide to give you some pointers when you want to learn a new river. I'm sure Three Rivers can hook you up in that respect, and may be worth the piece of mind.

Yes, I get sick of purists.......You bet I can give a damn about flossing, and would become quite upset if someone were to give me ANY crap on the river. To be quite honest I could care less if people pulled them in by their ass........They would be OFF THE RIVER faster. I run a 18-24 inch leader, and release all foul hooked fish, but I think it should be a choice, not a law.

I am a primitive archer, and like challenge. Would this give me the right to call a modern rifle hunter with a scope a ........flosser of deer???? Deer/salmon dead is dead.

Oh, to you citizen game wardens......Please call the game department when you see a offense, as your loud mouth really ruins my day of the river!!! Confrontation on the river is NOT your place, and a simple recording of licences on a vehicle will HOPEFULLY get the same response, and not ruin a peacefull weekend......thanks!

Chumster

thanks for the info, fellas.

Flossing or tribal netting, you pick!

Regardless of what folks think is a "choice" or not...

The law allows for keeping a fish that is hooked from the gill plates forward.

My personal opinion is that this is a stupid law that encourages snagging, but that is what the law is at present.

That being said...

The law also says that "snagging" is illegal, and defines "snagging" as intentionally hooking, or attempting to hook, a fish without the fish "voluntarily" taking the hook into its mouth...this is in addition to attempting to hook a fish somewhere other than the mouth.

Whether you think it ought to be a "choice" or not is irrelevant...intentionally trying to take a fish by hooking it in the mouth, or anywhere else, without the fish voluntarily taking the hook into its mouth, is snagging.

Is it difficult, perhaps even impossible, to enforce the anti-snagging rules against a flosser?

Yes, it is difficult, or even impossible.

Does this make it right?

Of course not.

Intentionally flossing is illegal...it's not that way everywhere, i.e., in B.C. it is legal and culturally acceptable to floss fish.

This isn't to say that flossing doesn't have its own aspects of art or difficulty...clearly some are much better at it than others, without hooking fish in the ass repeatedly.

However, in Washington, it is, by definition, against the law.

If it's that important for you to catch a fish that you must employ snagging (which flossing is, by definition in Washington), then I think you ought to think really hard about why you are out fishing.

Fish on...

Todd

IN BC , especially on the Fraser River, there are alot 12' rods....not for the sport so much but because using them allows an angler to use a 12' leader which is what they do.

Yesterday we tried all the traditional methods for Silvers that I know are successful in most rivers where the Coho actually attack the lure and "bite" it or whether the leader swept into their mouths as it swept past. . I did notice by watching others and doing it myself , that the "bite" usually happened early in the drift. Right after the dropper weight hit the bottom and started to hop over the rocks. I suspect that is when the leader sweeps by the weight on the way to being totally downstream. With those 7-8' leaders the time is lengthened and the sweep is bigger allowing a better chance of a "hook up".

We had no luck with plugs either at anchor or boondogging even in the hole with so many fish in it you could walk across them. We didn't try what I heard worked on the Snohomish and that was corkie and yarn (most likely with a long leader). We did have our only luck on Dick Nites and I cannot testify whether they attacked them or not. When hooked they shot out of the water and put on a show. I suppose using those tiny trout hooks had something to do with losing all of the ones we hooked.

The only thing I know for sure is that the guys boating most of the fish were using really long leaders and were jerking alot and reeling fast. I would say they cast and let the weight hit the bottom and then jerked and if they had nothing they would immediately reel in fast and do the proceedure over again. Whatever you want to call it that was the winning formula yesterday.

Wrong! Yes there are lots of long rods in B.C. and yes there are lots of flossers, but you have jumped to another erroneous conclusion. Long rods were and are very popular because the vast majority of B.C. rivers and salmon anglers use floats which dictate long rods.

I have fished in B.C. extensively for more than 20 years and can tell you that overall their river etiquette and ethics are excellent. In recent years, especially since sockeye were open for retention, snagging/flossing has increased and a horde of “new” anglers has come on the scene. Many B.C. anglers who consider flossing sockeye acceptable would never dream of doing it for coho or chinook. T Many consider the sockeye as a food fish and believe that any from of harvest is acceptable for food fish.

But they use long rods because that's what the stores carry and that's what the need to fish floats when they are fishing for other fish with floats.

grandpa - Here's just my personal experience from that River.

Early on in September, when the coho are first coming in, they will readily bite Wiggle Warts and Dick Nites. They are all chromer fish, and very aggressive.

Now, that being said, starting about October, those silly fish get some serious lock jaw. They darken up pretty quickly and are hard to get to bite. You can still get them to take a wrapped K-15 in the Sky later in October. Once the Snoho get's a big push of water and the fish all move up in to the Sky, they will bite again on the dropping river, but once the river cleans and clears up, they get lock jaw.

You can have big numbers on the Snoho, but it usually is early on with aggressive fish. By now, there usually is a big push of water and all the coho are up river in the Sky. If the fish are in the Snoho now, I bet they'd have some serious lock jaw.

Flossing =meat fishermen. Could'nt sleep at night if I did. The Duck

Dave.....I didn't intend to generalize and am well aware of the normal use for the long rods..heck , you are the one who taught me that. I am not an expert in the rivers as I have lived a sheltered life fishing on the Quinault and the Queets mostly.

I should have said....My neighbor fished the Fraser this summer for Sockeye and he thought that the general rule was the use of 12' rods with 12' leaders....No floats....In Alaska on the Kenai flys are used but the reality is that most folks up there either floss or snag them. I have stood in that river next to lots of folks doing just that. I think you are right about the food fish angle. I tied my own flies up there and thought I was catching them the hard way in the mouth but I'm sure I would have fit the PP definition of flossing. big deal.

Dave you brought up the issue of why the Snohomish Coho don't bite and I agree but remember that yesterday was my first outing for Coho on that river ever. I have alot to learn and I think Parker has it nailed pretty good. We tried wrapped Kwikfish yesterday with no hits. Last year I fish for Chum and did real well with wrapped Kwikfish but did notice a lack of sport in it.

A true purist would never set the hook, infact he probally would never even use a hook. He would also eat nothing but safeway fish. A certain amount of logic must be used,
tempered with sportsmanship, which is a personal percieved value.

Sockeye DO NOT BITE, so if flossing is just glorified snagging then we might as well just ditch the fishery (joking). Seriously though, the Kenai river red fishery used to be treble hooks and lujons. Snagging was blatant and tickets were in abundance. Over the years we developed more humane methods to catch these bruisers. Yes it could be construed as snagging, but 9 times out of ten I hook the fish in the mouth, enjoy an unbelievable battle on a 9-weight, and go home with a smile. Not a big deal, the rest of the year I fish for steelhead by conventional means. But for 2 weeks out of the year, I let down my guard and floss, big deal. It's fun, the mortality rate is virtually nil and I get a few beauts to pickle.
Now maybe if we embraced the act of flossing here, people learned the right way and the wrong way, and we went to single barbless hooks, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Most people would strike out anyway so mortality wouldn't be a huge issue, but at least it would get treble hooks out of the hands of the blatant snaggers.

Ak,

You bet, but I would never FORCE my opinion on you........ITS MY CHOICE. You won't see me out during rifle sesons preaching, as I can care less YOUR METHOD......PERSONAL DECISION!!

Chumster

This thread always gets me back on the board... Its been a while. Good stuff.

Thanks for the post Gpa. Wayne Kurse posted a similar story about fishing the lower Snohomish in the Sunday Harold. My limited experience on the Snohomish, mostly flyfishing, has been an exercise in frustration. But I think, as Parker aluded to, its all about timing to get the biters.

Hmmmm, the only thing I have to add to this interesting thread is perhaps my opinion as to whether you're actually flossing most fish with the Dickies. In my opinion (and experience), many fish hit Dick Nites, as oppose to the other way around. It's much easier to floss a fish using a bouyant corky, or neutrally bouyant yarn with a smallish hook, then a Dick Nite.

As to the jerking thing--this is just not necessary when flossing and people that do it probably snag more fish (fish hooked places other than the mouth). A "bite" from an actual biter or a floss job feels pretty much the same, if you use a reasonable leader, say 5 or 6 feet. You also fish the same, jerking only when you feel the head shake. If you're using a super long leader, that's when you feel the line running through the fishes mouth for much of the drift so tend to jerk a lot more and reel like crazy to catch up.

Whether you agree with flossing or not, I guess my point is, its just not necessary to use a ten foot leader, jerking like crazy, and harrassing the hell out of the fish. Its also not right to automatically label people who are using Dickies or corkies as flossers (unless they're using a leader longer than their rod!).

Ditto what Todd said.

Like it or not...

If the fish doesn't take the bait voluntarily, it's an illegal take in the state.

To me, snagging is akin to netting. It is not a sport - It is just a method for extracting fish from the water.

Aside from what Todd said, what about the anglers code of "fair chase"? I am of the opinion that some are so enamored by numbers that they forget that "true" angling is the game of fair chase and will do anything to prove their worthness to be on the next cover of fishing and hunting news.

Parker is correct. The last high water about 3 or 4 weeks ago brought on some aggressive fish. We limited that sat, sun, and mon in about 3 hrs each day with wiggle warts on the lower sky. Since then its been pretty tough to get them to hit anything. I fished last fri, sat, and sunday without any success. Other than a few on eggs over the last couple of weeks its been tough fishing. I saw a couple of guys on the lower sky fishing a hole from the bank with an ounce of lead and two foot leader with a corkie. They had no problem getting their fish. Similar technique as on the snohomish except they were not hooking the fish anywhere close to the mouth.

Parker is also correct that they will hit K14/K15 quickies near the end of the run when the chum are in if there is enough water. I caught quite a few last year at the end of october/early november.

Slab..Well I'll be dogged...I think we need a video camera in the river to see what is really going on.

Don't you think what happens when fishing with the Dick Nite with the long leader and basically drifting with it like bouncing eggs is that the line swings in a big arch and inadvertantly lands in the mouth of a fish? When the fish feels the hook it freaks out and jumps sometimes getting hooked better and sometimes getting off. Don't you think that the reason for using the tiny Dick Nites is that it is super light and will be easier to land in the mouth than other lures? I honestly don't know but I have to wonder after some close observations I made yesterday. I was pitching spinners in place of the Dick Nites with no luck at all.

What kind of kills me is that people will swear til Hell freezes over that fishing this way their fish bite while others are flossing. Witness the last post stating the ideal leader length being 5 or 6 feet....That is only 1' shorter than the 7' I mentioned earlier. The guys I saw slaying all the fish had a 6" dropper where I was using 24-36"...Using a corkie and drifiting with a long leader is ideal, especially with some yarn which helps it stick to the teeth as it passed by. The corkie will float off the bottom just right. I suspect the Dick Nite is so light that it takes a while to descend...The bites I got were close to the very beginning of the drift say from a cast at 2oclock to a swing of 10 oclock before the lure hits the current and is swept downstream.

Again. I am no expert so flaming me won't solve anything. I really want to know what is going on.

If sockeye dont bite, what is happening in Lake Washington? Those seem to bite just fine. I've also fished sockeye in clear water in Alaska, and watched a sockeye turn towards my fly, flare it's gills, and inhale the fly. I even caught one on a deer hair mouse. On the surface. With witnesses. Who were sober (at the time, anyway). So I'm pretty sure that a good fisherman can get sockeye to bite, at times, anyway.

Now, if fish don't want to bite, and you want to floss them, that's between you and the authorities. But don't try to tell me you're fishing. Fishing is inducing a fish to bite, not finding a way to impale them on a hook. Flossing is harvesting. It's not sportsmanlike, and it's usually illegal.

Now, on the dick nite thing, I catch lots of fish trolling and retrieving the dick nite upstream. That is clearly a strike, so the silvers definitely will hit them. I don't know what the folks are doing in general on the snohomish, however.

I just don't get it.......Worry about a soon to be dead salmon???? I fish the green quite frequently, and by the end of the season to see soooooo many dead dying fish going to waste makes me puke!!! After the hatchery gets their quota I see nothing wrong with the harvest of excessive fish. Ya, I have heard the aurguement that those rotting fish feed the next generation........great, but arguements of cruelity, and unsportsmen like conduct I think are words only a P.E.T.A member would use on this board.......geeez!

You guys in my opinion get to caught up in definitions, or your spin on what is LEGAL that you forget salmon is A FOOD FISH. I don't advocate spark plugs and trebles, but you guys are being flat rediculious with this flossing arguement.

The only one that benefits from snagging tickets is the department of game, and lawyers...............Todd are you a lawyer?? :p My sister is a prosecuter, yes for this state, and finds game violations to be a hassle.........especially fishing....snagging.


Chumster

When fishing a dick nite, the biters are caught when you can anchor above the fish and feed it to them. Almost like back bouncin, especially the clearer the water gets. A lot of times its straight out the back of the boat. But, when you get 10 boats fishing a little pocket you cant hog the hole to yourself. You have to get off to the side of the fish. Which allows more anglers to join in. And yeah if you got a lot of fish kegged up they get lined... It happens.

And as far as flossin if you dont your teeth fall out!

I guess Dave and Scott better take me out so I can see the right way to fish these stubborn Coho.

OK, my 2 cents. I have fished the Snoho for coho for over 20 years, back when it wasn't "combat fishing". Coho will hit a lure when presented properly AND when they are in the mood. Most of the time they aren't. When they are, it's incredible and they will chase your spoon/spinner/plug right to the boat. You can see it, it's a rush, and it's not flossing.

Flossing for coho on the Snoho is like kissing your sister. Get a life. I don't and never will. Hell, if I foul-hook anything it goes back, period. And I sleep better at night.

I'll be out there tomorrow, "fishing" for coho. It's great when they bite, rather than "I think I feel a fish, so I'll jerk my line".

Todd, Slabquest, and those of you of the same mold.....you can fish with me anytime.

Hear, hear.

Maybe I have to much respect and to much tolerance to launch an offensive hear but I do have to put up a little more D than the Seahawks had at the end of the game on Sunday.
I was raised by an Officer in the Airforce. If I felt I was 1/2 the man well maybe 3/4 the man he is I would be fairly proud of myself. He does have one big weekness, FISH. He loves fishin, catchin, cleanin, smokin, fryin, BBQin, cannin, vacume packin and sharing fish. He has no problem suporting inhancement programs, purist flyfishing clubs or anthing else thats good for the sport. He is one of the most thrifty Men I know and because he is it allows a few of his friends the ability to spend a few weeks a year up in AK with him. He has 3 boats, tons of gear a truck and a camper he leaves in AK year around but only spends 6 to 7 weeks a year in them. Did I mention it is his big weekness. He loves big Kings, Halibut, Razor clams and you guest it Sockeye (flosseye). He turned down fullbird Col. an assingment to the pentagone and maybe more for a WA and OR commercial troolling license and a new boat.(gave it up after about 6 years because the seasons were to short) Gettin the picture yet, the guy loves to fish. When I started my own business he harped and looked down his nose at me for not being better with my money and threatend he wouldn't be the one to bail me out. When I called and told him that I was tight on money and was selling my boat there was a check in the mail the same day.( After all he doesn't like towing boats across the state and yes technicly he now owns my boat)
We don't get to spend enough time with each other but we talk alot about it. We will be spending 10 days together on Kodiak next Aug. I fish alot and like all fishermen I catch more than most. I have fished the Snoho system maybe a dozen times for silvers and still havn't landed one. Lost one on a fatfish and one on a vibrex. Frankly the place frustrates the hell out of me and I am still out on the salt until there are very few fresh fish in the river.
If I was to to take my Dad out on Snohomish I would imagine we would go through evrything he could think of trying to get into the Silvers jumping all around us. Heck I might just do it to mess with his mind. Point is after trying everything he had at his disposal ( witch would put most sporting goods stores to shame) I wouldn't put it past him for one second to start throwing corkies and yarn on a long leeder.(if he was going to floss he wouldn't screw around with the little hooks on a wee dick night) I have all the confidence in the world he would figure out away to get a hook into a silvers mouth. If Ididn't know better places to fish where the fish are more likely to bite I would love to spend a day flossin the Snohomish with my Pa. While I was fishing with him I would probably keep a leagly hooked fish because for some reason it is that important to him. He is a product of the midwest and the 1930s. If I was with my other dick nite fishin buddies and a fish tried to rip the rod out of my hand while I was reeling in after a drift I would release it just so I could accuse them of being snaggers if they got one. After all there my Budies and they expect that kind of crap from me. Ya just don't know how the guy in the next boat is put together or why they do the things they do. If they're not a threat to anyone and I am not 100% sure they are breaking a law It is not my problem.
Queetsqueef I would be honnered to spend time fishing with you. I think we think alike.
Chumster I hunt Deer with a rifle because my closest friends have some increadable late Whitetail land with a big hunting cabin that has no electricity and is heated buy a wood burning stove. Its my favorit place to be with a foot of snow on the ground. Archery only for Elk. If you would like to hook up to fish or hunt let me know.

Grandpa
I may not always agree 100% with you but anyone that has done as much for what they care about let alone fishing gets a great deal of respect from me and I thank you. Look forward to meeting you tonight. Art


I did love taking my 4 year old Daughter and 7 year old son over to the Sky to floss and release some pinks with my flyrod last year. My 4 year old threw herself onto a passing buck humpy and succesfully restled it to shore.
It took me 5 minutes to convince her to let it go. It's in the blood.

Dave ,thanks for trying to help clarify the 12 ft rods and such.In B.C. we opened the Fraser to flossing sockeye 12 years ago as a way to target the super large runs of sockeye we were getting(due to the very muddy water ,1ft visibility),what a mistake.Since that day our fishing ethic has had the bottom drop out,the new generation knows no other way to catch fish than with loooooong leaders and heavy weights ,fished with or without a float.In fact ,if you go to the Vedder you will f ind 75% of the fisherman attempting to floss salmon.The whole reason for this progression is the false belief that catching salmon with this technique is the most productive method.I constantly out fish the snaggers using super shortfloating techniques using roe ,jigs and blades,I can hear them muttering about how short my leader is and "it's in the mouth",as if this were some kind of voo doo magic.Fresh fish are very often the best biters and watching these guys snag then bonk black springs and red tomat-hoes,is quite the sight.It should be no surprise to anyone who fished here this summer that our sockeye runs were virtually wiped out this year by the commercial boats ,massive illegal native nets and the huge number of snaggers.Many of us anglers who were sadly involved in this snag fest back in 92 are embarassed and saddened by the loss of ethics and degeneration of the fishing .In Canada we always looked down upon any form of fishing that facilitated flossing of fish,probably why we loved shortfloating,as almost no fish were lined when performed correctly ,not to mention damn effective.A strong push will be made to have the snag fest put to rest in the next couple of years and hopefully we can get back to fishing for sport .Getting skunked is part of the fishing experience ,it builds character ,develops patience and prepares one for the rigors of steelheading .The ability to accept that coho will sometimes not bite (or any other fish for that matter),and head in fishless is a true test of ones fishing ethic .Someone here said that flossing required skill,I hear this all the time from folks who have a hard time CATCHING not HOOKING fish,fact is that flossing fish is often no more than knowing how to cast and knowing how to follow the crowds.Real fisherman ,accept there skunkings and just work harder at finding a way to get them suckers to bite.Sorry if I offended some snaggy types ,but the truth hurts .
Bent Rods

I did hear someone say they caught a big fish on eggs. I wondered to myself what would have happened had we used a float and eggs and drifted it through the hole. Maybe the eggs were back bounced? With a corkie and yarn?

The other day after loosing the second silver I had ever hooked in the Snohomish on a trooled fatfish in slack water I was so upset that I accedently exceeded the speed limet by 6 miles an hour. I feel so bad about it that that I probably won't ever allow myself to fish again. I just can't take the chance of being skunked and dealing with the on going distraction that it causes. Speeding is a crime and now I am a criminal all because i love to catch fish so much. I think it would be best if I were to have a deep conversation with my .357 now.


aw to hell with it I am going to the Veddar with spinners, spoons and bobbers and eggs and Ill try to keep the rig under 75. I may take some longer leeders and wool but not my bonker or even an Ice chest because i don't keep the fish I catch there. I just love to reel em in. SEE YA

I have heard that in Alaska, flossing/snagging and even the use of dip nets is permitted for specific overpopulated fish runs. So I guess the practice of snagging has it's place in the big picture, just like seine nets, gill nets, etc. It just isn't "angling".

Dynamite Kid,

I'll be up on your local stream next Wednesday...how's the fishin' been?

It does crack me up a bit to see all the guys trying to floss fish with floats and wool up there...I fish eggs under a float amongst them when there is room, which there usually is. I swear, the fishermen are so nice and polite up there that if you stop and watch for more than a minute or two, they'll squeeze tighter together and invite you come over and fish with them.

Two years ago some fellas made some room for me (without me asking)...and I proceeded to outfish the four of them about five to one using eggs...I tried to give them some bait (I had a lot with me), but they politely said that they were OK with yarn. One of the guys, about a 14 year old kid, took the eggs and proceeded to hook fish after fish...

Fish on...

Todd

Well I respect everyones opinion on this and have much respect for those who say they can do it without the 7'+ leaders, but could you please more thoroughly explain how? I fish barrier dam quite a bit if I'm not bumming a ride in a friends boat and at the dam or hell at the nisqually, puyallup, green, skok, or anywhere I bank fish it just doesnt matter, every bankie I see is doing the 7+ thing. I have read over and over again about how to catch fish without going that route but I never ever see it employed therefore I have no confidence in it. Though I am completely confident the biggest king of my river fishing life(40#), which I caught yesterday at the barrier dam, bit my setup even though I was using a 5' leader. Still 2'+ shy of the next shortest setup I saw. Anyway what do you guys suggest when going with shorter leaders? Do I need to use larger or more corkies to get my setup where I want it? I don't give a rats ass if anyone flosses or not but I do find humor in flippin people **** when I catch a fish via more traditional methods

Sorry for this hi-jack.Todd ,the fishing has been quite good for big whites but the coho have been more than a little finicky,some retired everyday fisherman I know have not hooked 1 coho.Seems the best way to find the coho is to fish smaller runs and pockets ,I have done well doing this ,using small colorado blades fished under a float.The coho really start to move once it gets light out and the flossers bombard them with lead ,good time to hit the pockets near Tamahi bridge.When I fish these small pockets I shortfloat roe using a 10" leader ,as they are shallow and the short leader prevents the eggs from drifting up.The big chums are moving in and a large doe is allowed to be kept ,these eggs are without equal .Good luck on your trip up ,have fun and Bent Rods to ya

The 1st time I saw flossing was 10 yrs. ago on the Trinity. 7-8' leaders a corky, puffball or single bead & a 1/0-2/0 barbless hook and 9-10' spinning rigs. Lots of casting & ripping with many more hookups than the bait or hardware gang. When one of the kings found it's way into a net the barbless hook conveniently fell out in the net & no one but the guy on the end of the rod knew where it was really hooked. Ironically Cal. F&G has regs that prevent you from using leaders less than 18" but to date don't deal with "long" leaders. The flossing debate will go on a long time & I guess it just comes down to a matter of style until it's outlawed by WDFW?

Thanks, DK,

Kid Sauk and I will be up on Wednesday...we're planning on coming up Tuesday night and fishing on Wednesday.

What are the hours at Fred's? I seem to remember he opens at 8, but last year opened earlier. We're hoping to get our licenses Tuesday evening so that we can get right to business Wednesday...

Good call on the chums, but we'll be fishing it on the cheap, most likely (i.e., non-retention licenses).

Know anywhere cheap to stay...two beds less than $50? I'm not sharing a bed with The Kid...

Thanks for the info, and I also apologize for the hijack, but I think this thread has pretty much run its course anyway...

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Want to fish on Wednesday, DK?

Todd,

Fred's usually seems to open around 7:00 a.m. this time of year, I am not sure the closing time. I sent you a pm. I am bringing a bunch of eggs this year.

Eggs won't do either of you any good 'cause after I'm through fishing it this Saturday... there won't be nothin' left for you guys! :p


"two beds less than $50?"


Todd, call the Travelodge, that's where I usually stay. $65 Cn. + tax is probably around $ 50 US. Pretty nice place too!

I was up last weekend and let's just say I did VERY well... I'll be there this weekend too.

I think that Fred's opens at 6 am this time of year, I know it's open at 7 for sure. Kid Sauk and Todd loose in Chilliwack, lock the doors and keep the women and children indoors!

"Eggs won't do either of you any good 'cause after I'm through fishing it this Saturday... there won't be nothin' left for you guys! "

I ain't scared a' you, 4S! Are you coming back before Wednesday?

"Todd, call the Travelodge, that's where I usually stay. $65 Cn. + tax is probably around $ 50 US. Pretty nice place too!"

Thanks!

"Kid Sauk and Todd loose in Chilliwack, lock the doors and keep the women and children indoors!"




Fish on...

Todd

Fished the Snohomish this morning off the bank. I got skunked but saw 4 landed on DK's in the mouth. All 4 fish hit close to shore and at the end of the drift/swing. All 4 fish were bright. I've noticed all the fish I have hooked have also been close to shore like Coho do when they follow a spoon. Just an observation.

I also saw some fool doing the snagging thing. Cast, yank, yank.... When will these people get it. We yelled at the guy and then it looked like a snagged fish he had on got tangled up with some lines out of a boat. A few words were exchanged (something about a huge $$$ fine) and the guys technique changed. To bad the Fish Cops were'nt around. I know they have been in the area on a regular basis.

Ahhh, river salmon season, it's the only time of year where trash is as deep as the talk. Hey as anyone else ever run into the big women with the thirsty two oncer cup screaming at people to get their lines out of the way? Last time I saw her was at Stevens Creek in the mid nineties

I hit it yesterday from the bank and still lots of crome to be had. Eggs held close to shoreline dead still after a short drift was the ticket. Super duper has been producing too. Only 1 fish taken on a dicknite. I don't like them. Seems to be a fad or something. But now that there are some colored fish in the mix it's time for the master lure, white sonic rooster. Can't beat it. And i pitty the people that hate or say that Chum suck. Where's the respect? It's probably the indians fault right? LOL j/k.

FLOSSIN' IS A TECHNIQUE FOR THE WEAK ANGLERS WHO CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE FISH BITE. FLOSSIN' IS AN OLD SCHOOL COWLITZ RIVER TECHNIQU E FOR THE GUIDE'S TO MAKE MONEY. tHE GUIDES ON THE COWLITZ KNOW HOW TO FLOSS NOT HOW TO FISH, ITS A HATCHERY NOT A FISHING OPPORTUNITY

I don't fish in the rivers...too many flossers :p

(1) post and you slam the guides on the Cow. My home river. I learned to boondog from a guide friend. It is not flossing. It is pure fishing.
Pull your head out of your ars.