Who has the right of way? Sailboat...

I'm above Ice Harbor Dam this past Sat. trolling plugs and notice from afar that the local salboat club is out sailing their dingys...I'm headed across the water in a southerly direction. I'm noticing a 14'sailboat headed down stream and coming toward me (I have a 20' Crestliner). If I do not cut my motor we are going to collide! So I decide to cut my motor...this guy in his sailboat just misses me as he cuts 10' in front of my bow!! He doesn't say a word- I have my 14yr. old son with me so I reframe from letting out a tirade of profanity- I'm Pissed , but did not say a word to this knuckle head.
Who has the right of way? I could not tell if he had a motor (which he did not).

Mac

If thats the worst thing you had happen to you all day, you had a pretty good day. He is probably telling the same story to his "dingy" buddies but in his version your the bad guy.

Just did a quick search to confirm my faded memory from reading "Chapman's" boating book years ago when my dad had a sailboat. Below is a link that explains it. Looks like in most situations the sailboat has right of way.
I was reminded of a time years ago salmon fishing with my brother in law off of Shilshole on a foggy rainy day with the canvas snapped up and poles sticking out. We drifted into a sailboat race and almost got run over by a 30 footer! Talk about a wake up!!

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/boating/6_2_b.htm

A sailboat under sail has the right of way in the situation you've described. The only time that a sailboat under sail does not have the right of way is in the shipping lanes in Puget Sound, to my knowledge. Of course, the practical rule is tonnage. If the other boat is a lot bigger, you better get out of the way.
IMO - you should sign up for a boating class if you don't know the rules of the road. The sail vs power boat rule is Basic Boating 101.

I believe that the power boat has the right-of-way if it is engaged in fishing operations (trolling), or if the sailboat is overtaking the power boat.

2 weeks ago, we were trolling and I was being overtaken (nearly hit) by a sailboat -- my buddy was trying to tell me the sailboat had the right of way.

Dont think so... rec fisherman do not get right of way because they are fishing. Granted common sense should tell the sailer they need to avoid a boat that is trolling, but since when does common sense mean anything to most boaters. If they are motoring they are like any other boat, but once under sail they rule unless in shipping lanes or marinas. Not meaning any offense, I agree with ChuckE. That is a very basic thing that one day could get you in a lot of trouble if handled wrong. Sailboats should always be given ample room to manuever.

the sail boat has the right away and tonage rules.

the problem is that right of way is not absolute as a pedestrian cannot walk into your moving vehicle and blame the vehicle. if he was walking across the street in a normal fashion and was struck that would be different..

i would say that the problem was with the sailboat. those dingys are fast and manuverable and he should have been challenging your path wich would have been probably much slower than himself.

usually its the wind dicks that are the problem like when they set up their sail races right outside of shilshole harbor and then glare at all the power boats going thru the races and they do that during coho season with 200 power boats out there.

if they want to play like that, you can go out in a row boat so that you have the right of way over the sailboat and go chase them around.

personally i think those regattas should only be allowed where it woulb be safer and they shouldnt be allowed to use wdfw boat lunches during peak salmon seasons or set up the race just outside of the boat launch

Rick...
Thanks for the info. According to the "Chapmans" boating book I was the boat to the RIGHT when I refered to the CROSSINGS section.
So.... I WAS RIGHT AND KNUCKLEHEAD WAS WRONG!!

No, the boat on the right issue only matters if you are both under power or under sail. Having done both sailing and powerboating, I can assure you that sailboats under sail will always have the right of way over your powerboat.

I agree with someone earlier who said that you should probably take a boating class.

Found this on a quick google search. I think it answers the question. Sailboats generally have the right of way unless they are under power.

Also, there is a new state law that will eventually require all boaters to pass a boating course. If you are a boater, I'd suggest you find one in your area and get it over with. The upside is that your insurance company may give you a break on your boat insurance. The US Power Boat Squadrons and USCG Auxiliary offer approved courses.
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How to Use Navigation Rules to Avoid Boating Collisions

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The Inland Navigation Rules help ensure that two boats do not collide on the water - much as rules for driving a car do on land. The U.S. Coast Guard enforces these rules on waters connected with the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans, or the Gulf of Mexico.


General Right-of-Way Rules

Steps:
1. Yield the right-of-way to divers in every case.

2. Look for vessels with the international code flag "A" or alpha, either red and white or blue and white, which indicates the presence of divers in the area.

3. If you are on a sailboat, assume the right-of-way over all powerboats, except when you are overtaking another boat.

4. Give way to commercial fishing boats or large ships in narrow channels or confined areas.


Warnings:
Large ships are prone to a "blind spot" that can stretch for hundreds of feet in front of them. Such ships have a longer stopping distance, move with deceptive speed, and can block your wind from a long distance making it difficult for you to maneuver.

Larger ships can also cause turbulent waters that might toss your boat around. Approach carefully in all cases.

Two Sailboats

Steps:
1. Yield the right-of-way to a boat on starboard tack if your boat is on port tack.

2. Yield the right-of-way to a leeward boat if you are windward and on the same tack.

3. Yield the right-of-way to a boat that is ahead if you are an overtaking boat or are otherwise astern.

4. Yield the right-of-way to a moving boat if you are coming about or jibing.


Two Powerboats

Steps:
1. Pass port side to port side.

2. Yield the right-of-way to the boat on port side if you are on the starboard side and you must cross paths. To keep clear, alter your course and pass astern, or slow down until the other boat passes.

3. Yield the right-of-way to the boat ahead if you're an overtaking boat.


Tips:
These rules also apply to sailboats running under an engine.


Tips from eHow Users:
All must take responsibility
No boat ever has a right of way, and all boats have the responsibility to avoid collision (even if it necessitates breaking the rules.
Sailboats are the stand-on vessel over a powered vessel with the responsibility to maintain course and speed only when it is under wind power. When sailboats are motoring they have the exact same status as any other power boat of its class and size.
Sailboats must yield to other vessels in many circumstances (i.e. narrow channels, shallow water etc.) and yield to many other types of vessels, such as; large power vessels with limited maneuverability, fishing operations (not a sport fisher), vessels in tow, and others.

The key term here is "restricted manueverability"
with regards to the fishing vessel. Generally,
"while trolling (fishing)" implies commercial vessels. However, if trolling with downrigger gear caused "restricted manueverability" the fishing vessel may have the Right of Way. It would be a tough Coast Guard call, so stay out of the way of sailboats not under power.

Spud

Don't know if you guys run into this one often, but we see it quite a bit. A drift boat is working a tail out above a rather large rapid. The slot for a 24 ft jet boat to run upriver safely is very narrow. In order for him to do it he would have to possibly hit you when he gets over the top. q: how long does he have to wait for the drift boat to get out of the way. a: as long as it takes. Another boating 101 lesson that some people can't grasp.

Sometimes a little common sense needs to come into play. If the power boat is not "underway" and is not altering his coarse, while the sailboat is in racing mode tacking and jibbing (or whatever they do) and overtaking the the powerboat, well.........
if he sailed behind you perhaps there would have been no boatrage.....remember sail boats generally move slower and sometimes it takes them a bit longer to get in touch with their feelings etc.

"can't we all just get along"

The sail boat had the right away, as long as he was not under way by motor and under sail.
I believe this is the order of command. When they are talking fishing, they mean commerical. Sorry you are in the wrong.
All of these situations below have the rightaway in every situation .
1,Not under command.
2,Restricted in ability to manuver
3,Constrained by draft.
4,Fishing, except troling with lines.
5,Seaplane
6,Pilot
7,Sail
Then there is rule number 8, which was broken when you did'nt take any action.
(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and [Intl] shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.

(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.

(c) If there is sufficient sea room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close-quarters situation.

(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally past and clear.

(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to asses the situation, a vessel may slacken her speed or take all way off by stopping or reversing her means of propulsion.

(f)

A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel.
A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action which may be required by the rules of this part.
A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
It realy is a goog idea to take a boating class at the least. You will feel much safer.

Capt Bob

This has been discussed on another board and few people with "Captains" licenses offered their understanding of the issue. One recently went thru the testing and certification, so the rules were current. Personal power boats (or charters) that are sport fishing do not qualify as "fishing boats", even if their mobility is restricted due to their method of fishing. A boat powered by sail almost always has right of way over our type of boats (non-commercial power
boats)unless it is coming from astern and overtaking us. A sailboat using its motor is considered a power boat so it must follow the right of way rules we do.

This is from another fishing site:

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General Rules

Rule 3

(d) The term "engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fish apparatus which restricts maneuverability, but does not include a vessels fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.

The key words are restricts maneuverabilty.. "We" can never be restrcited in our ability to maneuver. The guys hauling 600-yards of net are certain restricted.

Steering and Sailing Rules

Rule 13 (overtaking)

(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B sections I and II, any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaking

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from such a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, that at night she would be a ble to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither sidelights

(c) When a vessel is in doubt as to whether she is overaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.

(d) Any subsequent alteration of bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a cossing vessel within the meaning of these rules or relieve her of her duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

If I remember correctly you mentioned that the sailing vessel was approaching form astern... Does the criteria for overtaking exsist in your situation?

If so, the sailboat was required to keep clear. One the same token... Rule 17 (c) states, " When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as best to avoid collision.

Sounds like you did the right thing...

I would recommend to all owners/operator of vessels to snuff up on the rules.. We have too many knuckleheads on the water... and the fines are stiff if you were found not to be in complaince with the Rules...

Captain John

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I will second taking a Power Squadron basic safety course. I did when I purchased my boat several years ago. In addition to learning the basic rules of right of way, you will learn what safety equipment is required for your type of boat, State regulations, basic navigation information, and lots more. Rules on the water are different than the road and it is important to be familiar with them, even if many people don't know or observe the rules.

he did take action to avoid, Macsteely says he cut his engine and the dingy boy sailed across his bow. Macsteely avoided no harm no foul.

NO NO NO

The biggest boat win's

It looks to me like it worked out the way that it should have...the boat under power changed course (direction and/or power) to allow the boat under wind power to take the right of way.

Recreational fishing will not grant anyone any more right of way than if they had no lines in the water.

As with cars on the road, legal right of way and courteous behavior aren't always the same thing, some folks are in position to make life easier for everyone involved, and if that's what it takes to avoid trouble, then that should happen.

Fish on...

Todd

I have seen too many of those small sailboats under the control of very young operators. I would rather give them wide berth and avoid a collision then to get close enough to challenge what may be a relatively inexperienced sailor to make the right choice. I have also seen these guys so caught up in their race that they are oblivious to the other boat traffic aside from the other racers. There is lots of water out there, and boats don't have brakes. Just give each other lots of space and always assume that the operator in the other boat is an idiot. If you have a collision out there it is going to ruin your day whether you had the right of way or not.

Yeah, I know.....I like to stretch my interpretation of "engaged in fishing operations"

But if a sailboat rams you from behind, I'm afraid it's his fault.

Here's a test question for youse guys:

"What's the difference between "under way" and "under power"?

Famous last words, "I have the right of way!!!".

I am guessing, which is what I do best. Under power means the use of a motor. Under way means not at anchor and with the ability to move if required. Hopefully someone who really knows the answer will chime in.

My wife has no conception of right of way. I wonder how she has survived driving as long as she has. Almost every time we are in the car I have to say something so that she does not A> back into someone, or B> merge right into another car. When I tell her these things she says " I did not see that car because your fat head was blocking my view "

so does anyone else besides me sail... and not feel a bit bad for a fisherman having to give up right of way?

:p :p

besides when you cut the engine suddenly while trolling... guaranteed instant strike!!!!!

I typically have the right away, due to the fact that I'm typically out of control....

Keith

People flat out get off the river when they see you barreling down at them!

Right of way? More like "get out of my way".

Especially where there area a few "beverages" involved!!

Keith

TYPICALLY? I didn't think your narcissistic pathology would allow you to have such a conservative opinion of yourself, Keith.

Slabquest, If the sailboat is OVERTAKING you, yes you are right.
Now the test question, under way and under power.
Under way, but are you making way?. You can be under way, but not making way, wether you are under power or not. So I guess you can be under power and not making way too. Yea, that's the ticket.

When I am on the road I am a big believer in the "Lug Nut Rule", which states, "the vehicle with the most lug nuts always wins". I also appyly the lug nut rule principle when out on the water.

Interesting discussion, as I have been and avid sailboat racer and an avid fisherman for most of my life. Sailboaters do have the right of way over power boats under all but special circumstances as mentioned overtaking and shipping lanes)and they mostly all know it. Most are courteous enough and aware enough to not push that issue around fishermen, and will give trollers a wide berth. Nobody wants to untangle fishing line from their centerboard or prop shaft.

Sailboat racing is another issue as people get pretty serious and want take advantage of every wind shift or current flow as that's how you win races. My guess is that the dinghy in question was in a race and that's why they "pushed it to the limit".
Sailboat racers get pretty hacked at powerboaters who roar through their racecourse, narrowly missing boats and creating wakes that, at least, impede progress, and at worst can actually damage boats. Sounds simple but you would be amazed at the number of times I've seen that happen. My advice is to give racing sailboats a wide berth and everybody stays happy.

As far as setting up a racecourse in an inconvenient location for other boaters, you may have a good point, but remember, in Puget Sound light sailing winds prevail and sailboats literally cannot make progress against a strong current in light air. Because of that Sailboat racecourses must be set in areas relatively protected from current. That may be why courses are set where they are.

I don't claim for a second that sailors always behave courteously or considerately but maybe this will help folks understand a little more about where they're coming from.

Just because one has the right of way, doesn't mean they "should" proceed in a direction or with the intent to cause an accident.

When I'm blackmouth fishing Meadow pt and trying to stay on the contour it can get crazy right in there by the green bouy. I just don't like it when a sailboat is on a tack and refuses to move. If both parties are paying attention and making an attempt to stay out of each other's way, it seems to work out. But that doesn't always happen.

Also, even while non fishing, right in front at Everett, there are sail boats going back and forth inside the breakwater. I've had them change tack and almost take me out. You really have to have good peripheral vision.

As a serious sailor and owner of a 44 bluewater cutter sloop I would say that any sailboat under sail that does not change course when he sees fishermen trolling or bottom fishing is an idiot no matter what the rules say. Even with a boat my size it is not difficult to change course, a lot more easy than forcing the fisherman to pull his gear. Now if there is a planned race course set up I think that the fisherman should realize that by fishing inside the race course he should be aware that he may have to pull his gear as those sailors are out for blood and the faster they get into the club house the faster they get to drink strong gin & tonics!