Unfortunately, as so often seems to be the case nowadays, what's right to most of us, isn't necessarily what's legal.

Should be a fairly simple process to find out the status of the access to the hatchery. County courthouse would be the starting point. That is the first step. If there's a true rights-of-way with no pertinent restrictions, then the next step is to contact WDFW and DNR, and find out why the gate's locked blocking public access.

If there's restrictions on the rights-of-way, or easement, you've got a much larger problem. Go find a big bankroll somewhere that's willing to fork out the $$ to fight WeyCo....and be prepared for a LONG fight.

We here in the NW aren't really big potatoes to this company anymore...they've got such big holding in the SE and worldwide that don't have the environmental and other restrictions, that they're mostly just sitting tight up here.

TR

well at least we now know for sure steelie dan is an atty, few other types of humans have the audacity to give bad advice (take your sled up the green) & raise his rates ($ $225 from $150) AND EXPECT PROMPT PAYMENT ...

Max:

Thanks for calling me a human. That's the nicest thing anybody's ever said about me.

I probably shouldn't do this but I here is a question for you. First of all I will say I think we should have access through the land, but if Wey,co's sole business is run off timber from the land they own?, I can see why they take such an interest in protecting it. If fires (even if they are rare) destroy a small part of the forest they own it's probably a large dollar amount lost to the company? Now again, as such a big company I would hope they would offer access just to keep a friendly relationship with us. Wishful thinking I know. I'm actually trying to see it from there perspective. It just doesn't make sense how certain people can have access.

Come now!

When was the last time I tried to get any of you to pay for my opinons?

(I figure you're paying enough by having to read them!)

Bob, I'm pretty sure that the gamies aren't able to give trespassing tickets that aren't for trespassing on closed state lands...I'd guess it would have to be the Sheriff to give out trespassing tickets for private property.

I'd also heard that last year you were able to drive to the hatchery, as long as you stayed on the road and didn't dawdle. Perhaps not true, just what I heard.

If access is being denied, eight years of public use to access public lands, with WeyCo's knowledge and tacit permission, sounds like a prescriptive easement to me. There may even be an actual easement since the state started operations up at the hatchery again and all the workers had to access the hatchery via 19 Mile Rd.

Any response from Croswell yet?

Fish on...

Todd.

Another thought to ponder, at least in this case anyway. If I'm not mistaken (and I probably am) Weyerhauser had a lot of trouble with vandalism to some of their equipment in that area? In this case, I'd wager that's probably the REAL reason they want to deny access. Think for a moment about the type of "fisherman" that frequents hatchery holes. (yeah, I know it's a generalization, but sadly, it's mostly true) We've ALL seen the snagging, littering, law-breaking scum that congregate at these type of fisheries. We probably have them to thank for being denied access.

Todd

Good to hear from you again!

Todd, I head it from our local game warden "Foster". I was about 50 feet away, but I confirmed it with my fishing partner who was talking to Foster. He said that he has already ticked three people that day for criminal trespass. I do not know if he caught them parking of the 19 mile road and then fishing the Toutle or not.

I did hear back from Ray Croswell today on my recorder. He is getting me the information that I have requested. It is still very early, but it appears that Weyerhaeuser may be playing games!

It may be called a "sign Game"!!!

We will see if Weyerhaeuser has the legal authority to keep fishermen out of the areas that has already been developed by the state hatchery.

SteelieDan

Thanks for your impute, but even on this board, it's all free!!! Please keep your comments coming. If you think that you can make a difference, please don't be afraid to give us your valuable impute. After all, we are all dedicated fishermen, or why else are we even hear?

Thanks for everyone's support

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

I have to say this year has been bad for fires. We had three get within a mile of our house this year. I was in the woods in August and a good fart would have burned down half of western WA. It is better now, but still high. As for WeyCO, the best "sign" game I saw was on Ft. Lewis. In area 23 they posted a big area closed to public access due to fire danger. This is on a federal installation. When I asked a MP about it he told me Weyco could go pee up a rope. If you elk hunters noticed, and I am sure you did, last year Weyco ditched and gated most of the Mossyrock and Winston creek woods. The land there is co-owned by about four different agencies. You could not reach the state stuff because of a big old ditch right in the middle of the road. Said it was because of vandalism. I heard of about three "gate pulling" incidents in Oct-Nov. What needs to happen is vandals and dumpers need to be severly punished. I mean 2000 hours of trash picking up, in the WOODS, in their POV which is then taken by the state. Along with jail time and a huge fine paid to the state DFW and land owner. If someone were to be tossed in jail for a month, spend about a year picking up trash, pay a 5000 dollar fine and loose their car, dumping would drop off sharply. To increase the likely hood getting caught, anyone who photographs or records the dumper in the act would be paid a reward of 1000 dollars upon conviction. Or maybe just be shot on site and buried under the trash they dumped. That would work too. As for the game wardens and criminal citations, most GW's are fully commissioned law enforcement officers. Which means on top of the required four year degree, they went to the police acadamy and have the same rights as a cop.

4Salt: Doesn't really matter about the vandelism or the dumping. The cold hard fact of the matter is that Weyerhauser has no right to keep us off of OUR land. Its a state run hatchery and as such, we have a right to be there. Like I said before, the state just spent a whole bunch of our dollars to put in a big parking lot and now we can't even use it. Kind of seems like a big waste. Of course none of this is of any cocern to you because you're way to uppity to ever be caught dead fishing in the same vicinity as us white trash fishermen who frequent the hatchery holes.

I talked to Mr. Foster personally last Wed. or Thurs. And he told me he was writing criminal trespass tickets left and right just for being on the 1900 road.
You could not use it at all.
He was also in the process of taking pictures of " No public access signs" when I talked to him.
Maybe to back his tickets if you go to court?I don't know.

Hey there Huntnfish, Did you by chance happen to ask Foster exactly how we were supposed to access our hatchery if not by means of the 19 mile road?

Cowlitzfisherman, what exactly do you mean by the term "sign game"? You couldn't possibly be implying that Weyerhauser is knowingly and wantonly posting land that they have no legal right to post? I know that Weyerhauser is capable of anything, but guys are actually getting tickets and having to go to court over this. If it is found that Weyerhauser has no right to post no entry signs on the 19mile road, then they should be forced to totally compensate everyone who was written tickets for tresspassing,ie, court costs, attorneys fees, time off from work, etc.

No Zo,

It's not about being uppity at all. Do you see yourself as a white trash snagger? If not, then why do you assume I'm refferring to you? If you want to fish those nightmare snagfests hey that's completely up to you. You'll also notice that I admitted using a generalization. You and I, I'm sure get something different out of our fishing experiences. To me, it's more for relaxation, maybe a little solitude, and testing my SKILLS to see if I can't entice a fish or 2 to actually BITE. I used to be into catching sheer numbers, and fished places like Stevens creek on the Hump or the Carbon etc... I guess I've just reached a point in my life where I'm not obsessed with bringing home a limit of (usually dark) fish. To each his own.

p.s. I'm not defending Weyerhauser at all. They don't have any right to deny public access. I was just offering a possible explanation as to why we are having this problen.

I tend to agree with LittleZoZo.

LittleZoZo, I don't know for sure about the "sign game" thing yet. I will know more after I get the material that I have requested from WDFW. I wouldn't put anything pass Weyerhaeuser when it comes to controlling public access.

It's really hard for me to see how any private enterprise can legally prevent the public from accessing state owned property. But like so often, we fishermen always allow the big corporate boys to overrun our fishing access rights. I hope that this thread will start the wheels a turning that will turn around this trend. Ignorance has been, and still is our worse enemy. I known if it was me that got a ticket for going to the Green River Hatchery, all hell would brake loose, and I would have my day in court one way or another!

It's also a shame that our local game wardens are now cow telling to people like Weyerhaeuser when it comes to ticketing people for trespass under the "fire danger" scam. wouldn't their time be much better spent writing tickets for poching or snaging? And they (the game wardens) wonder why no one likes them or wants to raise their pay. The last major forest fire in this area was caused by no one else other then Weyerhaeuser themselves! It was one of their own famous slash burns that got away from their own burners!

So now, we fishermen are being blamed for their stupidity. We must make sure that we keep our fishing and hunting access open. We must not sit ideally by and take the big corporations word that we don't have the right to use or enter the land that we have paid for.

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

When I asked Mr. Foster how we are supposed to get access to the Green river. He told me that you can go to the sediment dam.Park there.Wade the Toutle and fish the Green, because that is all state land.He told me specifically that there is no public access through 19 mile.That wading the Toutle is the only way to get there.
I also heard rumors that the Weyco land will reopen on Wed.I'm really curious to see if this materializes.

Yeah, well if wading the toutle is the only way to get to the Green, then I want to see ALL the hatchery employees wading the Toutle every morning to get to work. Same thing with the Guy who lives up at the hatchery. Make him park at the sediment dam andwade to get to and from home every day. If Weyerhauser lets those guys use the 19 mile road, then they cansure as hell let us use it too.

We have the same problem down here in Oregon. Willamette industries has dug up roads leading to state owned pocket lands. Totally messed up. If I had money I would sue to get access open up.

Without having read all of the above posts...

In Skagit County a lot of the timber land is owned by Crown Pacific. Nearly all of the CP land is gated to prevent access. All one need to do to get access is to contact CP. They give you a free permit and the combination to any gate that you want access to. Does WeyCo. have a similar program?

At certain times of the year they open a lot of the gates for hunters. However, probably not during peak fire danger.

Looking at it from their side...If I had billions of dollars in timber on my property, I would want to protect it also. As far as the gates go, I can't blame them there either. Illegal wood cutting, illegal garbage dumping, & abandoned vehicles just to name a few reasons. We have a few bad apples(scum bags) that ruin it for all of us.

As far as access goes to state land thru WeyCO property goes, sounds like the good ol' State of Washigton didn't do they're homework. Like one of the other posters mentioned, why put all that money into the hatchery and not have guaranteed access to it? Hopefully WeyCo does the right thing for public relations and allows access when there is no fire danger.

Camo