Lets look at that one

"Take that story to TK and Rory and tell what you think about their professed piety "

Who professed piety? Is that another lie SG it's getting to be a habit with you. We know you professed certain things in front of friends and family that turned ou to be a lie. So maybe you should re read what Phreak said I think you could use it.


"Christianity is about a REAL change of heart. It is about putting your self pride aside, humbling yourself, admitting your sinfulness. Becoming a Christian is NOT a ‘cure’ for sin in your life. That is still a daily struggle that God is there to help you with. You no longer need to be a slave to your fleshly desires, but are set free through Christ. When you do stumble, instead of ignoring it or justifying it, you admit it, repent, seek forgiveness, and move on. It is a process of becoming spiritually mature."

I'm not sure what your point is.

Should I go around to any and all proffessed Christians and judge and condemn anything I think is 'un-christian' behaviour? I'd be a BUSY man and would never have time to address the plank in my own eye

You are an educated man. You can see that there are Christians who strive daily to follow Christ and be a light to the world and there are those who are perhaps immature in there spirituality or maybe even never actually experienced the life changing grace of God, but just went to church and happen to know the Bible pretty well. I'm not going to say who fits in what camp. I have been known to change camps from time to time myself...

But back to my point, you are a pretty smart guy. To write off Christianity based on the actions\words of several individuals is a cop out and you know it. Look at the Bible and see what it says about the life of Christ and what it says about living a Christian life. You'll find those who do a pretty good job of living up to it (nobody's perfect) and those that do a horrible job.

PP, you are either part of the problem, or part of the solution. Trying to be diplomatic about guys like TK and Rory won't garner you any influence here if you continue to look the other way. The stunts they pull are wrong even in YOUR Gods eyes. You'd be far more influential with your "witnessing" to others if you did take a stance about their "Christian behavior" to non believers.

TK,

16 years of marital counseling...

"won't garner you any influence here if you continue to look the other way."

Whoa I bet that ruins his life. Better not put PP life beyond fishing on his resume or referance list.

Talk about thinking you are something you are not. That might set a record even for this place.

What ARE you rambling about now TK? Reading stuff into my post that isn't there again. Typically weak and simple minded attempt.

A simple statement... If he wants to influence us, (and look how hard he keeps trying) maybe he needs to consider why we don't want to listen?

I do believe you're the one trying to BLOW his horn all the time.

TK,

Just because you're a jerk here doesn't mean that I think you're stupid about everything. You know a thing or two about business, and I'm guessing that includes contracts. Marriage is a social contract. It takes the actions of two to keep it, but only the actions of one to breach it. Once a contract is broken, it is no longer in effect. Like I said, you seem strongly given to assumptions in this instance that you know nothing about.

It would be silly to say I've never lied, altho I don't much because I'm really bad at it - my mother could always tell, and I guess others could as well. But for everything that's ever mattered, I keep my word.

Maybe not so sure about piety, but it seems you've worn your brand of Christianity on your sleeve here. Did I misinterpret something? And the evidence abounds that you behave like a complete jacka$$ here, but I simply attribute that to your stated purpose of trying to p!ss people off. Nonetheless, it doesn't strike me as very Christian-like.

Phreak,

Yes, you'd be one busy man. This topic hardly seems worth the energy, but I thought if you took a look, you'd see that TK and Rory are perfect examples of the right wing whacko fundy Christian Cult of hypocrits who, on the one hand proclaim their Christianity, and on the other - at least in this sector of cyber-space - devote their endless energy to entirely unChristian-like behavior. Ergo - they're sorta' like the Prodigal Son, behaving badly while professing their Christianity.

And there have come to be too many like them. I'm not writing off Christianity, but I prefer to keep myself well distanced from the likes of that particular Cult of Christianity. I'm not a Bible reader, but I have attended church and received some essential Christian education, so I have at least a smattering of an idea about Christ, how he lived, and how he urged others to live, and TK, Rory, and the other Cult members behave, if not live, quite the opposite.

Too many, and the neocons chief among them, who are doing that horrible job you mentioned of not living up to it.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

You hate Christians and define them such that you can justify your hate. Noting new nothing special. If you put as much time reading up on Christianity ,which it is clear you know next to nothing about, as you do fishing regs you would know it is PP's job as a Christian to do such.


Hard to say if I have seen people think higher of themselves than you people do. Which is interesting beacuse you think you are here because your ancestors crawled out of the mud. The irony of it all.

He knows everything, we know nothing, and yet it's us that think highly of ourselves.

You can't pay for comedy like this.

Dan,

Remember, he's only here to see if he can p!ss someone off. But you're right, his entertainment value seems to be his highest value. Higher than his religious values, IMO.

TK's funny.

PhishPhreak,

You seem like a smart, sincere guy who's rather fair and balanced.

I probably don't even need to ask, but I'd hope you make any assessments about me based soley on what I've said or written and not what's said or written about me by some third party.

Sincerely,

Rory b.

" You know a thing or two about business, and I'm guessing that includes contracts. Marriage is a social contract. It takes the actions of two to keep it, but only the actions of one to breach it. Once a contract is broken, it is no longer in effect."

That is a classic spin on the matter. It is a 50/50 contract and you where not forced to stand up in front of everyone to announce the terms of the contract you chose to do that. 50% is yours and 50% is hers. I own my 50%. Good bad or indifferent it's mine.


"Like I said, you seem strongly given to assumptions in this instance that you know nothing about. "

You are too old to have to be reminded that one should not lead someone down a path that one does not wish to travel. You walked up and set the ball on the tee and are now suprised that I took a swing? 50+ years and you are that niave?

50% of 16 years of marital counseling STILL means you're a loser TK. See, people in healthy marriages don't seek counseling for 16 visits, let alone 16 years. Just like they wouldn't go to the doctor every week or two if they weren't sick and didn't need anything. I could understand an occasional series or two, but it still indicates THERE IS A PROBLEM. 16 years means there are some REALLY BIG PROBLEMS. It's my expert opinion, that you've got no business trying to look down on S g... or anybody else.

Better to be divorced, than trying to take out your problems on strangers and make your spouse miserable.

16 years. How embarassing.

OK, one more to go after this, then I'll be caught up...

>>>“And since God doesn't show up and define Himself to us, how else can He be defined, except by men? “

***Well, first you start with an assumption that there is a God and that this God wants to be known by men in a way that is comprehendible by men of all levels of education, etc. He needs a way to provide this Truth about himself that will work from the beginning of man to the end. He can’t just stand there ‘in the clouds’ and say “look at me” or he’ll violate our freewill of choosing to believe he exists or not. There HAS to be compelling alternatives.

So for the early years, God used oral tradition through the Hebrews who were very structured and amazingly good at passing down traditions from one generation to the next. In time, these oral traditions were written down and saved. At the time of Jesus, the role of the Hebrews\Jews in preserving the OT had been fulfilled. Now when the Gospel of Jesus needed to be spread to all nations, languages, cultures, etc, the OT and the Gospel\NT could be documented, preserved, and shared in writings.

The early Catholic Church played a role in preserving the Bible (not without problem, but that is another topic) through the ‘dark ages’ during the rise and fall of empires and the pillaging and burning of the old libraries and during times when very few people were educated enough to even read.

In the last several hundred years, education, the availability of books \ bibles became much more prevalent. Those that had preserved the texts (amazingly well when compared to the Dead Sea scrolls and other ancient writings found) – i.e. the Catholic Church, had also abused the power they had because they controlled who could and could not read the scriptures (and thus controlled how the scriptures should be interpreted). Along comes guys like Martin Luther who realized what had been happening and desired to put the scriptures back in the hands of the common person. The timing of course was spot on because printing presses had just started being used. Today anybody can get a bible and read it (in their own language) in nearly every corner of the world (or look it up on the internet  ).

Today we have access to many biblical versions. Some are word for word translations while others are more thought for thought oriented. Bother are valuable tools for studying the Bible. We have confidence in the translations based on the remarkable accuracy found when compared to the ancient writings. We have so many resources like concordances and other tools that help us study words and phrases used in Biblical times to help understand the modern meaning based on a very good understanding of the culture, traditions, politics, social issues, historical references, archaeological references, etc.

But even with all of those resources, God tells us through the Bible that the Word and Wisdom of God given to us is all foolishness to the unbeliever. For the believer, God has given the gift of the Holy Spirit to guide us in spiritual matters and in discerning the mysteries of the Bible.


>>>“The unfortunate fact is that this whole shebang is an issue of faith, and faith only.”

***By design, this is true. But there is plenty of evidence – from evidence that backs up the historical claims of the Bible, so the evidence of millions of lives completely and unbelievably changed by God and the evidence of God working in your personal life. The latter form of evidence is impossible to know unless you or someone you know has personally experienced it. The evidence is very compelling in that case…


>>>“I'll just say that Christianity in the U.S. in undergoing a period of especially bad salesmanship on the part of its most visible and vocal "practitioners." I placed quotes around that because we discovered the other day that these most visible, vocal are actually just another cult”

***That has always been the case. The good news is that with the tools we have at our fingertips, we can clearly discern who the ‘cults’ are and who is misusing Christianity and twisting it for their own agendas.


>>>“Or any other question regarding Religion, God, whats right and whats wrong or anything on the matter. However, you seem to have all the answers. Maybe your God ??? “

***Nobody has all the answers. I have faith – educated, experienced, and personal faith. I am learning all the time.

PP,

Is this source you are referencing available online?

Yeah AM your method really worked for you. Your kid is proof right? I know I know it's all her fault your little baby boy got taken advantage of by the big bad she wolf. I prefer to listen to and take advice from people that are doing things right. I use the others like you to learn what not to do. So I will continue to live my beautiful life with my beautiful wife and kids.

If you were living a beautiful life with a beautiful wife and kids, you wouldn't be such an angry hateful little person to most people here.

REALITY CHECK TIME!

16 years of marital counseling...

TK,

You post here to see if you can p!ss people off, and you call that a beautiful life? Now that furthers our understanding of you. No wonder you've been in counseling for 18 years. Too bad it isn't doing much good.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you be more specific?

No, the prodigal son turned his back on his father and freely and purposely sought a life seperate from him and his influence, approval, love, etc.

In your example with TK and Rory, they would better fit the example of the other son. We don't know from the story if, after the initial bitterness and anger, he actually matured and got over it, or if he continued to live in resentment toward his brother.