Dave,

I can't and won't argue with someone I agree with.


Aunty-- It happens.

But if you say it's so I wanna see numbers before I agree or disagree or A2D.

(And Numbers can't be played with like that last thingy put out by the RAF 8.5---17%. what a crock. That's worse than a crock that's scaming )

Trex, I think I did post that wrong! It isn't a half million, it's a full million!

Commercial allocation in 1993 was 1.8 million. Last year it was 2.8 million!

I think 1992 was when the sport limit was changed from 12 to 6.

There must be another old fart out there that has a better recollection which year we had our limit decreased last time. I remember it as 12-13 years ago.

In any case, you can't argue "my" math. Commercials have 1 million more pounds allocated now than they had prior to Rafeedie and our individual limits were cut in half and they're about to be cut again by a third.

I usually buy a combo license and last year took so few crab that I was set on not buying a license this year, untill they set the season. Now I feel that we should start a class action lawsuit for theft of services. If I were to take your money and not produce what was specifically spelled out, then I would be sue'd and would have to pay damages. Perhaps it is time that we become litigents instead of overpaying pawns!

As promised



January 14-15, 2005, Commission Workshop
Natural Resource Building, Room 172
1111 Washington St SE, Olympia
.553.8225

Preliminary A G E N D A*
Times are approximate and subject to change
FRIDAY, JANUARY 14
9:00 AM 1. CALL TO ORDER: Chair
 Approval of Minutes – Dec. 3-4, 2004, Meeting Commission
 Commissioners’ Discussion
 Director’s Report Jeff Koenings
 Budget Update Larry Peck, Dep. Director

2. OPEN PUBLIC INPUT:
The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. The public is encouraged to share views of Department programs and topics of concern during this portion of the workshop.

NOTE: This time is set-aside for those who cannot be present later in the day.
If workable, please provide your comments during the Open Public Input session later in the day.


3. INVASIVE AQUATIC SPECIES CONTROL EFFORTS – BRIEFING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on its response to the discovery of a colonial
tunicate species in Puget Sound.

Staff Report: Scott Smith, Aquatic Invasive Species Coordinator, Fish Program; and
Bruce Higgins, Recreational Diver, Fish Program

4. “GO PLAY OUTSIDE” ANNUAL UPDATE – BRIEFING: 30 mins.
Department staff, along with John McGlenn, President of the Washington Wildlife Federation; and John McLaughlin, President of the Washington Wildlife Coalition; will brief the Commission on the status of educational outreach activities in partnership with the Wildlife Coalition.

Staff Report: Bonnie Long, Outreach and Education Program Manager, Fish Program

5. PROPOSED LAND TRANSACTIONS – DECISION:
The Commission will consider approval of various proposed land transactions.

Staff Report: Dan Budd, Real Estate Manager, Wildlife Program

LUNCH BREAK

1:00 PM 6. CAPTIVE PROPAGATION OF WILD RAPTORS – RULE ACTION:
The Commission will consider adoption of proposed amendments to WAC 232-12-129, Captive propagation of raptors – sale, records, reports, and inspection. This item was continued by the Commission from the December 3-4, 2004, meeting in Ocean Shores to the January workshop.

Staff Report: Rocky Beach, Wildlife Diversity Division Manager, Wildlife Program; and
Eric Cummins, Surveys and Forest Wildlife Section, Wildlife Program

PUBLIC INPUT (Item #6 only)


7. ACCESSIBLE FISHING OPPORTUNITIES AT DEPARTMENT SITES – BRIEFING:
At the request of the Commission, Department staff, along with Rory Calhoun, Recreation Accessibility Specialist, Interagency Committee for Outdoor Recreation,
will provide a briefing on accessible fishing opportunities for persons with disabilities.

Staff Report: Brenda Kane, ADA Coordinator, Personnel Division
Kristen Kuykendall, Environmental Engineer, Business Services
Steve Sherlock, Access Area Manager, Wildlife Program


8.
SALE OF WILD SHELLFISH – RULE BRIEFING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on a proposed new WAC section that would establish a trial fishery license for harvesting wild embedded shellfish on private property and provide harvest accountability for purposes of better understanding wild shellfish populations. The Commission will consider taking action on rule amendments at its February 4-5, 2005, meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report: Evan Jacoby, Fisheries Administrative and Criminal Law
Specialist, Enforcement Program

9. GEODUCK FISH TICKET COPY DISTRIBUTION – RULE BRIEFING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on proposed amendments to
WAC 220-69-26401, Distribution of copies of shellfish receiving ticket, that would create a process for the Department of Natural Resources to more accurately track and account for geoduck harvest. The Commission will consider taking action on the amendments at its February 4-5, 2005, meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report: Morris Barker, Ph.D., State Marine Resource Manager, Fish Program


10. COMMERCIAL RAZOR CLAM FISHERY – RULE BRIEFING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on proposed amendments to
WAC 220-52-030, Clams—Coastal – Seasons and areas, which would clarify licensing requirements, provide better enforcement capability, and ensure fairness for licensed commercial razor clam diggers. The Commission will consider taking action on the amendments at its February 4-5, 2005, meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report: Morris Barker, Ph.D., State Marine Resource Manager, Fish Program


11. PUGET SOUND DUNGENESS CRAB FISHERY MANAGEMENT –
BRIEFING: .
Department staff will brief the Commission on 1) the current implementation of Commission Policy C-3609, Puget Sound Crab Fishery, including fishery planning and performance intended to meet the policy’s objectives; and 2) recommendations for the 2005-06 season, including recreational season design and options of methods for estimating recreational catch. The Commission may consider adoption of permanent rule amendments regarding the 2005-06 season at its February 4-5, 2005, meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report: Lisa Veneroso, Shellfish Policy Lead, Intergovernmental
Resource Management (IRM)
Annette Hoffmann, Ph.D., Quantitative Assessment Unit Leader,
Fish Program
Morris Barker, Ph.D., State Marine Resource Manager, Fish Program

12. OPEN PUBLIC INPUT: .
The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. The public is encouraged to share views of Department programs and topics of concern during this portion of the workshop.

5:10 PM Recess


SATURDAY, JANUARY 15

8:30 AM 13. OPEN PUBLIC INPUT
The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. The public is encouraged to share views of Department programs and topics of concern during this portion of the workshop.

NOTE: This time is set-aside for those who cannot be present later in the day. If workable, please provide your comments during the Open Public Input session later in the day.


14. HYDRAULIC PERMIT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (H.P.M.S.) – BRIEFING:
Department staff will provide an overview and brief demonstration of the HPMS web application.

Staff Report: Gayle Kreitman, Regulatory Services Section Manager, Habitat Program
Jim Eby, Program Manager, Information Technology Services


15. WASHINGTON INTERACTIVE LICENSING DATABASE (W.I.L.D.) –
BRIEFING:
Department staff will provide an update for the Commission on the WILD Project and the status of plans to develop the next generation of the recreational license sales system.

Staff Report: Jim Eby, Program Manager, Information Technology Services


16. MARINE PROTECTED AREAS UPDATE – RULE BRIEFING:
Department staff, along with Mark Plunkett of the Seattle Aquarium, will brief the Commission on proposed rule amendments and new WAC sections that would create Marine Protected Areas on beaches in six parks owned by the City of Seattle. The rule amendments will be proposed in approximately March 2005 through the expedited rule making process.

Staff Report: Mary Lou Mills, Marine Ecosystems Manager, Fish Program


17. NORTH OF FALCON POLICY – BRIEFING:
Department staff will present a briefing on key elements of the Commission’s current North of Falcon Policy (C-3608), which has a termination date of Dec. 31, 2004. The Commission will consider adoption of a renewed or revised North of Falcon Policy at its February 4-5, 2005, Commission meeting in Olympia.

Staff Report: Phil Anderson, Special Assistant, IRM
Patrick Pattillo Salmon Policy Coordinator, IRM

18. COLUMBIA RIVER WILD WINTER STEELHEAD IMPACT RATE –
BRIEFING:
Department staff will brief the Commission on a request to NOAA for modification to the current impact rate allowed under the Endangered Species Act. In February, Department staff will request the Commission for policy guidance regarding wild winter steelhead management in the Columbia River.

Staff Report: Cindy LeFleur, Columbia River Policy Coordinator, IRM
Guy Norman, Region 5 Director

LUNCH BREAK

1:00 PM 19. SUMMARY OF COMMISSION REQUESTS TO THE DEPARTMENT:
The Commission will review and update the summary list of Commission requests to Department staff and consider new requests.


20. MISCELLANEOUS AND WORKSHOP DEBRIEF:
The Commission will discuss items that arise immediately before or during the meeting and after the preliminary agenda is published.


21. ELECTION OF COMMISSION CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR:
The Commission will elect one of its members as Chair and another member as Vice Chair, each of whom shall serve for a term of two years or until a successor is elected.


22. OPEN PUBLIC INPUT:
The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. We encourage the public to share views of Department programs and issues of concern during this portion of the workshop.


23. ETHICS TRAINING FOR COMMISSION MEMBERS – BRIEFING:
Department staff will present an overview and answer questions regarding the
Ethics in Public Service Act for Commission members.

Staff Report: Lembit Ratassepp, Assistant Chief, Enforcement Program

4:50 PM ADJOURN

Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
2005 Open Public Meeting Schedule*

January 14-15, 2005 Olympia
February 4-5, 2005 Olympia
March 4-5, 2005 Olympia
April 8-9, 2005 Moses Lake
June 17-18, 2005 Yakima
August 5-6, 2005 Spokane
October 7-8, 2005 Olympia
November 18-19, 2005 Vancouver or Stevenson
December 2-3, 2005 Olympia

Commission conference calls are also scheduled for the first and third Thursday of every month.

*Additional meetings, workshops, and/or conference calls may be scheduled
when deemed necessary by the Chair and a majority of the members.
Changes to this list will be posted on the website.
All meetings are recorded.
Contact the Fish and Wildlife Commission office for further information:

Phone (360) 902-2267
Email: commission@dfw.wa.gov
Commission’s web page: http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/com/meetings.htm

Anti,

Where is it that says I been arguing a limit cute?

I'm talking bogis numbers.

But sense you brought it up. Our daily catch limet has been reduced but not our yearly qouta.
Now perhaps thats a matter of time, but not today. And as of yet I ain't seen no figures to the contrary about the past (BUT I'm sure it's happened But-But what's the figure?)

Trex, you're being a little cryptic. Can you be a bit more clear?

No I'm not being cryptic, I'm getting tired of it all. I can carry on for x period of time. After that frustration and annoyance take over. I stop proof ready and spell checking.

And frankly I don't care any more.

Suit yourself Trex.

I DO care. We have more than enough examples that WDFW is not treating sport crabbers fairly.

We should not just be tlking about allocations and limits and who gets what but we should remember our quality of life as well.

Christine Gregoire in a private conversation with me opined on the quality of life here in Washington and seemed to be genuinely committed to improving that quality of life by supporting and enhancing sports fishing. We shall see if she walks the talk.

I had an argument with a gill netter once telling him that I consider fishing a way of life. he disagreed and called it a sport. My way of life is fishing and always will be. My quality of life is severely impaired when my fishing opportunites are restricted or curtailed. I intend to improve my quality of life by improving my access to fishing.

Ok It’s a new day and I’m bright eyed and bushy tailed.

It keeps being said that the Sky is falling. IE== less crab – fewer days.

Now the new thing that is being thrown at me is. “The sky done already fell.”

Now it’s “way back when we could take a gazillion” Folks forget “way back when” Bolt and the population have changed that FOREVER.

Therefore, beings that no one can come up with historical figure or should I say only half of the figures. I say lets discuss TODAY. And the figures we have.

We can study the past (or we're doomed to repeat it) But I'm not going to address YESTERDAY unless all the figures are in.

Given the "complete" figures I have today. I say: same crab-- longer season.

Example== Lets say I want to have a crab feed at my barn. I figger I need 24 crab. Under today’s catch limit of 6 per day it would take me four (4) days to gather 24 crab. Next year to take 24 crab for my feed. It would take six (6) days. That’s the same amount of crab but a longer time period.

Going with a set number of crab being allowed it’s going to take longer to reach that number.

So the sky isn’t falling. There is no screwing going on, there is no Conspiracy going on.

What I do see is an over reaction by a few that is going to start a “panic in the market place”. Others will take advantage of the “Knee Jerk reaction” for financial gains, esteem and posture.

Care to be more specific? You're making an accusation which is totally unfounded. You claim I am not being accurate, even though I've put WDFW's AVAILABLE figures up to support my position, yet you challenged me and others about bogus numbers.

I have posted FACTS from WDFW that I can back up.

What YOU posted is bogus BS. Put up or shut up dude. Back up your accusations with some FACTS.

Fact 1) Commercial crabbers have seen an allocation increase of 1,000,000 in Puget Sound in a 14 year time frame even though Rafeedie gave tribes half the harvest in 1995.

Fact 2) Sport crabbers have seen an allocation increase of only 200,000 in Puget Sound in that same time frame.

Fact 3) No new commercial licenses have been issued since 1980.

Those are undisputed facts.

Now let's see your facts. Jump high or stay at home dude. I'm not a rookie at this by anyone's standard and when I am right, I am VERY right. :p

*****I've done as you asked. Would you please give me the figures I'm asking for? I would very much like to see your "BACKUP"

You have given us no proof whatsoever that anyone is taking advantage of anyone, that someone is in it for financial gain, esteem or posture.

I think your stupid and petty games have pretty much taken away any credibility you may have had.

Where's the figures Auntie???


I guess you can get away with breakin Rex's rule #1 on the board.

The original statement is pretty clear to most all people. Sports opportunity has been steadily shrinking as the number of sports crabbers has been dramatically increasing. The commercial crabbers who actually harvest crab number very few but their take has increased from an already lopsided percentage. The analogy of getting 24 crab in 6 days instead of 4 is somewhat simplistic and does not address the real problem. With a relatively healthy population of crab available for harvest it is how the allocation breaks down that is at issue. Pretty simple math.

So here I go again answering every question you throw at me. Now I know my answers do not fit your way of thinking but at least I do attempt to answer.


FINICIAL GAIN

From the RFA news release
“YOU TOO CAN HELP. Legislation does not come cheap. Many sportsmen’s clubs and tackle outlets are donating funds to the RFA, but much more is needed.”


Off a fishing board author unnamed
“Everyone can get involved to win this war. Send as much as you can now and continue to support this effort.”


ESTEEME

Off a fishing board author unnamed
“And Aunty M...You are a great asset for us in this fight...Let's join together to get something done.”


POSTURING

Off a fishing board author unnamed.
“Want some more "focus"? I got all kinds of focus. Just the WORD "focus" could be a mispelling (sic) of what's being done to sport crabbers.

(by the way misspelling has two S)


Off a fishing board author unnamed
“ I'm not a rookie at this by anyone's standard and when I am right, I am VERY right.”

Off a fishing board author unnamed
“I think your stupid and petty games have pretty much taken away any credibility you may have had.”


Again where are the figures?????

Grandpa, lets ignore him since he can't even come up with a coherent post.

Maybe he'll crawl back into his primordial ooz where he belongs.

Grendpa

Thank you for stating my question again.

"Sports opportunity has been steadily shrinking as the number of sports crabbers has been dramatically increasing."

***Agreed


"The commercial crabbers who actually harvest crab number very few but their take has increased from an already lopsided percentage."


Please--- What are the figures???

Now I got them from 2000 to 2004 but I'm haveing a bit of trouble with the 90's.

Call me a doubting Thomas if you wish, but there have been to many Bogis numbers and percentages thrown out already. I want to look at them for myself.

T-Rex e-mail Lisa Veneroso for the info you want......Just an idea???

You definitely are one of the chosen ones on this board.

The funny part is I'll probably get popped from PP because you can't keep a civil tongue. Oh well there is always Steelheader. We can't talk at Gamefishin your mouth already got you popped there.