Backtrollin,

Fisheries that come under the Selective Fishing Regulations state "no fishing from a boat equipped with a motor." The WDFW Commission made an exception to that part of the regulation for the Skagit CNR season because the Wildcat Steelhead Club asked for it. Traditional Skagit style boondogging occurs with the motor off and the boat guided with a long pair of sweeps or oars. The CNR fishery occurred from 1981 through 2009 with no adverse effects to the wild steelhead population due to fishing. That's the background.

Occupy Skagit requests that the traditional Skagit-Sauk CNR season be re-instated with the traditional regulations. Under the precautionary principle and be careful of what you wish for, we urge all OS supporters to refrain from suggesting regulatory alternatives. WDFW and the Commission are very well aware that it is within their purview to further restrict the fishery if necessary for conservation or to avoid being inconsistent with recovery.

What,

When the Skagit re-opens I expect an initial increase in fishing pressure that will fade when anglers discover "it ain't all that." Anglers will return for the novelty of re-experiencing what has been a lost opportunity for five years. And newbie wannabes will come because of the reputation of the Skagit and are personally skunked, contrary to the expectations based on magazine and internet lore.

FF02,

Contrary to some opinions, the Skagit steelhead are not endangered. Not even threatened, except by association with the rest of the PS populations. Did you know that if all of the Skagit basin were north of the 49th parallel, it would be the healthiest wild steelhead population in southern British Columbia? It also would not be closed to fishing, but it would be CNR, barbless hooks, no bait, and probably no fishing from boats - BC is like that.

Both treaty and non-treaty fishing contributed to the decline of wild steelhead in the late 1960s and early 1970s, but that changed with fishing patterns and regulations beginning in the mid to late 1970s. Fishing has not been a factor affecting the abundance of Skagit wild steelhead since 1978, and the data, i.e., the best available scientific information supports that conclusion.

OS requests and appreciates all support for re-instatement of the tradtional CNR Skagit-Sauk fishery. Please leave all personal agendas at the door.

Sg

Sg:

Yup. I read back over my post and immediately noticed that rather significant word choice error. I realize they aren't endangered, and I certainly don't advocate any fishing targeted at endangered fish.

I've looked smarter... I hope.

"Regardless of the rhetoric that is being spat forth on internet forums presently, in regards to how there is no indication that the Skagit system will see any increased pressure, than what was experienced prior to 2009, is total BS."

I'm sure there will be more people - simply because there IS more people. But when you talk about "increased pressure" that's going to be more experienced by the angler than the fish.

One thing is for certain, there will be scrutiny. And with today's technology mixed with angler cooperation it could be unprecedented - and I mean that in a good way.

A lot of people are putting in a lot of hard work to bring this fishing opportunity back. There will always be a few selfish, mindless, SOBs on the river. The best defense against that is to let our voices and actions be louder than theirs.

All I have to say is this looks like sports fishers validation of MSY as a management model. That is to exploit any fish returning above minimum escapement goals. Make it pretty hard to complain about other user groups doing this.

You may have missed the part where the escapement goal on the Skagit is 2 to 3 times the MSY value.

Fish on...

Todd

I see your point, Keta, but MSY is a catch and kill paradigm, so while we're probably not talking apples and oranges here, I think we might be talking, say, apples and pears. Close, but with some important distinctions.

In theory, a vast majority of encounters in C&R fisheries do not result in mortalities. Of course, some (generally those who would rather directly harvest any available fish themselves for profit) argue that the mortality is much higher than the few percent C&R advocates apply. Whatever it is, learning the truth should be very valuable in determining the validity of C&R fisheries as a means of providing opportunity without posing excessive danger to wild fish, and I think it's time we tried. If it were as successful as many of us believe it would be, it would demonstrate that C&R fisheries are a legitimate option where catch and kill fisheries can't be responsibly executed (on the much more crowded of late OP rivers, for example). If not, we could say we tried, lump C &R in with all the other failed strategies, and move on (permanently close all sport fisheries for wild steelhead). Obviously, none of us want that, but while I have argued that pay to play and outright closures punish the wrong people, I value the long-term survival of wild steelhead more than I value my ability to fish for them.

I fully recognize that any flavor of fishing has an impact, and while I strongly suspect that impact is much less in a C&R fishery, if we learn otherwise (using science; not anyone's made up numbers), I'll admit I'm wrong and hang up my gear if that's what it comes to.

I did see escapement was around 2X but not 3X escapement. I know there has to be a line drawn somewhere on when to open fishing . I'm just wondering how this will open the door for the tribes to take a bigger bite. The plunker/bonkers will start whining. Slippery slope so to speak. Maybe I'm being overly conservative but this is the last "healthy " steelhead run in the area and would like to see a little longer track record of being "healthy" and increasing numbers before we all start drooling over exploiting these fish. Just another opinion.

In 20 plus years of steelheading I've never seen a wild fish floating upside down. Just sayin-

And once we close these fisheries we have put the final nail in their coffin. Too many young steelheaders only know of bonking hatchery fish in front of the hatchery. Once all native fishing is closed then there will only be the memory of a few old farts left and once we die there will be no one left to fight for them because they wont know what they are fighting for! Or what they have lost!

And the best way to turn that mentality is to provide the experiance of releasing a teener Sauk hen. Without that experience in hand why would the next generation not want them extinct so they can build more hatcheries for more bonking. All the words in the world can't convey the message as well as simply looking eyeball to eyeball at a chromer Nate!!!!

Keta,

The Yellowstone River in YNP has been CNR since 1973. Do you think the National Park Service is managing Yellowstone cutthroat trout for MSY? We're talking about river ecosystems that are producing fish at their natural carrying capacities, albeit the Yellowstone is near pristine and the Skagit, not so much. If you don't allow CNR (CNR, no less, we're not talking about full tilt boogie wild fish bonking here) when the population is at least 150% of it MSY escapement, when, if ever, do you? 200%? 300%? Based on what? That it's a bigger number and unrelated to the basin's carrying capacity?

Either adopt reasonable and rational management objectives and standards or lock it up and make it a museum/zoo.

The bite that the tribes want is for the steelhead ESA listing to not limit their salmon fishing, which it does to some extent presently. Did you miss the part about limiting total impacts to 16% of the larger runsizes? That's a slippery slope that more steelhead should be managed for. The plunkers and bonkers can whine all they want, but the train they are looking for left the station in the last century, and it isn't making a return run. Yeah, shoulda' been born in earlier times.

Sg

I'd like to see the Skagit steelhead left alone to do their thing. There will be mortality even in a C&R fishery and those are precious fish that won't spawn.

Blktailhunter,

What makes a Skagit steelhead more precious than any other wild steelhead? Every one knows that there is incidental mortality associated with CNR fishing, and over 30 years of data shows that not only CNR, but some limited direct harvest fishing on Skagit steelhead has had ZERO affect on the adult population abundance. This means that not fishing has done nothing to increase population abundance.

And the data show very clearly that larger escapements greater than 8,000 don't result in subsequent larger runsizes. No matter how much we might want to believe it will happen, the data show again and again that it doesn't. That's a pretty clear indicator of habitat carrying capacity at present marine survival rates. Skagit native steelhead are as healthy as it is possible for them to be under contemporary environmental conditions. Opposition to restoring the CNR season can only be emotionally based, because it's sure not based on science.

Sg

You make a convincing argument as usual. My opinion is based in years of watching Wa.State manage fisheries into oblivion so my confidence in reasonable and rational management objectives and standards is cynical, I hope I'll be proven wrong on this one.

1964 - 1965 Winter season, for Skagit Rv. was:

1. Skagit was the number 1 winter run river in Washington State..

2. From punch card data...... 20,030

This comes from a publication, "Gordie Frear's Fishing Northwest Fishing Guide and Hunting Guide" that I bought at Warshal's .....Most wouldn't even know that the store was in Seattle....address was ..First and Madison...................Long gone, like so many things from that era.

Days of old were good fishing times.....can't even think how fishing in the 60's would have been with "new rods, reels, lines, lures, etc." of today.

People want to see the Skagit left alone but have no problem fishing over mixed stocks in the ocean or Puget Sound. Releasing shakers or wild fish that may be returning to a river or stream where the forecast return is maybe a couple hundred fish. What's the mortality rate of salmon CnR'd in the salt....? It's not an inconsequential figure.

Brood nailed it when he said there'll be nobody who gives a rats azz about these fish after the fisheries have been closed a substantial period of time.

Get it all... First steelhead I ever caught was a teener hen on the Sauk! Oh I got it alright! Fished way to many places to not get it :-) Wish my grandsons and great grandsons get to enjoy that incredible experience! Occupy Skagit? Hell Yes! >>>>Be There Or Be Square!

I would venture to say that since the Skagit/Sauk closed to the late season CNR that more fish have died from poachers than would have during a CNR season. Fishermen on the river reduces poaching.

Agree with JG.

No eyes on the river means wild fish are being harvested, but not accounted for.

This is a really interesting thread. Thanks to the participants for taking the time to reply.

This:



And...this:



Both are true.

The Official Sauk Poacher Season used to start in May...now it starts in February.

Fish on...

Todd

OS III drew its largest crowd of supporters yet. Thanks to everyone who showed up. The symbolic support matters. We have two new Commissioners and a new WDFW Director who need to learn what OS is about and why it makes sense for the Department to pursue re-opening the Skagit-Sauk CNR steelhead season.

It was a fine morning to wet a hookless line in the Skagit. It could only have been topped by fishing for real.

Sg