And the truth lies somewhere between Rich and Salmonbelly as I see it. SB ... you're dead wrong on the early run stuff, there was a pretty fair number of them.

Even if it was only 1% of the run, is the system healthy if you remove that early component?? I think you even have enough sense to answer that one.

We're trying to screw with Mother Nature intended ... and that's where the problems lie. Problems with the size of the fish, problems with the timing, problems with repeat spawners ... all from human harvest, both tribal and sport.

Strong ... what does that mean? Does that mean in the middle of May you have x number of beds in a few sections of river?

According to who, the state biologists? Well, they have a pretty stellar track record around Washington don't they?

Ever wonder why more anadramous runs are being managed on models with higher escpement goals everywhere else?

It appears that you say they're strong because the state says they are.

Yes, there has been some good fishing this year. Our best day was upwards 30 fish hooked, and we've hooked probably somewhere around 75 in the past week or so ... but, there are also miles and miles of good spawning grounds around without a redd in sight.

Tell me, have you ever fished Kodiak Island, or how 'bout the Situk, perhaps the Kamchatka streams? Maybe something a little closer to home, the Skeena watershed? It's frightening to see the numbers of fish in these streams compared to what we have here ... that's what Mother Nature intended!


And for the points / questions that Metalhead brings up:

1) Viable population ... I think I addressed that with all of the above, what is "viable"??

2)Don't hink this is the case with many anglers, although you may perhaps see some of this fro those looking for "fly-only" waters. While I regularly fish selective fishery waters, over the course of the season, close to half my fishing days are spent in C&K waters. Why is my favorite run in a selective fishery piece ... it's my home water that was my favorite before it became selective fishery water and it also sees less traffic as many people don't have the confidence to fish something other than bait.

3)If the stocks are that depressed, then by all means, close it. The coastal rivers aren't going to collapse tomorrow, but they may five or ten years down the road if things don't change. Remember that steelhead have very diffrent life histories . cycles than salmon, and with the harvest of a wild steelhead, you don't really know what sort of impact you're having on the run ...

I see a new one now from SDB came up while I wrote this, so I'll add some more:

We could only wish there are 14,000 wild fish spawning in the Sol Duc, the goal is about 1/6th of that.
In addition, was that fish a repeat spawner or not? Was it a 2/2, 3/1, 1/3 fresh / salt fish?? You can't be sure ... the need to keep the natural genetic makeup is critical to the long term health of the stocks ... that's why removing that fish could be detrimental.

[ 04-02-2001: Message edited by: Bob ]