Good words Hilton. Those two points would have never occured to me. I usually tend to stray from other people and signs of others when on rivers. I do have a fairly good sense of reading water but like I said, those large rivers throw a monkey wrench into my system o' water readings. I was just trying to find a universal sytem if it existed.

Those two points that you mentioned are good (although I wonder about the old timers with memory loss and all :p ) , obvious points that I would have over looked. Thanks again.

Stlhdr1 - Thanks for the advice too. The thing I love about steelheading is all the variables. There is always a new challenge.