Thanks for the advice mooch. I was on the water at 8:00 am fished about an hour by the ferry docks, I then remembered about a shelf I found between the ferry dock and Apple tree point while trolling for silvers this summer, I found it again and first time down to the bottom I hooked a 24 inch black mouth, back at the launch at 9:30. Not bad for my first time mooching in that area. Reminded me of point no point.