I'll give you a prime example...

h2o:
"If your only objection to gay marriage is that you don't approve won't you admit that is a pretty thin argument for banning something outright? If not, why?"

grandpa:
"Not too complicated. Just think it is perverse. Don't agree with it. Personal opinion. Simple as that."

h2o:
"You know what's perverse?

Out of one corner of your mouth sending soldiers off to die for 'freedom' and out of the other denying another man his freedom because you don't like what he does.

Example:

I hate bluegrass. Makes me want to vomit. I think its wrong and it goes against nature to play the guitar all Lamar Latrell. One of my best friends loves it and forces me to listen to it every time i go to his place, rams it down my throat as it were.

Using the exact same logic, if I could marshall the forces of metal uniting all headbangers across the country (especially the rich ones) into convincing the majority of voters or the right senator that it is somehow perverted to listen to bluegrass we could simply ban it.

Identical logic (albeit a horribly constructed sentence). Identical impingement of freedom.

No?"

grandpa:
**crickets**

grandpa hates it when it when you reverse his logic.

I'm not even going to cite any of elvis' numerous cut and runs, just read any thread he's posted on.

The thing about your points Phishy is that, IMO, you are relying on sources with questionable credibility to form your opinions. That more so than anything is why we disagree. In order to reach any sort of an understanding we have to agree on what the facts are as they relate to each point you make.

I'll do that after lunch...a little cut and run of my own so I can have some guitar time. I'll be back with more than an insult and a non-sequitur, you can bet on it.