FnP -
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions about the guidelines to implement management under MSA. You obviously thougth quite a bit about those details. As I understand your thoughts on MSA and the desire to error on the side of the fish I think your answers are spot on. If I were to answer those questions my answers would have been very similar.

I would agree that ESA has been a large factor in the shaping of current management (paradigm shift?). However I think it is more important to focus on the result and use the situation to build for future management rather than worry about the why.

As has been discussed a number of times the allocation problem is fixed by federal treaties (non-tribal/tribal) and the state legislature (mandate to maintian a viable commerical fishery). Hammering on the managers are not going to change those realities. That energy is better served directed at those that has the power to change the allocation formula.

Let's take the final step in building this new management pardigm and see what fisheries would look like. I'm going to stick with the chinook example and use Puget Sound chinook needs for resource protection (I'm more familar with those details than elsewhere in the state).

1) MANAGE TO ACHIEVE 90 to 100% OF MSA- Given the allowable take under US/Canada salmon treaty there would be no chinook fishing in Washington except under exceptional marine survival which would not be known until after the fact. Because the chinook imapcts have been used up by our neighbors to the North there would not be any Washington marine fisheries for any salmon species. Any marine fishing would be the escapements even further below the 90% minimum. Don't know if you are willing to and by how much you are willing compromize on that level to allow any marine fishing.

Freshwater season (salmon and steelhead) could be allowed and would likely be quite good as long there is complete separation between the chinook and the target species.

The treaty expires in 2008 so if their impacts are changed there may be room for additional fisheries in 2009.

2) SELECTIVE GEAR METHODS WITH A MAX. OF 10% -
For the recreational fishery we have all ready established that would require selective gear (barbless hook and bait ban). Given the high mortality of small "shakers" caught with down riggers it may require the banning of "riggers".

3) 100% MARKING OF HATCERY STOCKS -
Progress is being made in that direction but obviously there is much to be done. The "Dicks" marking requirement will help. Would you make an exception for the Double Tag Index (DIT) groups - the release of coded wire tag fish without a fin clip to evaluate selective fisheries?

4)WEAK STOCK MANAGEMENT -
Meaning that any mix stock fishery is limited by the status of the weakest stock in the fishery. This will limit any mixed stock fishery, once any stock falls to 90% of MSA no fishing where ever that stock may be.

5) BUILD THE FISHERIES FROM THE RIVERS OUT -TERMINAL PREFERENCE
Any substantial fishing in the terminal areas will use all the impacts so all fishing will be limited to the rivers and bays at the mouths of the rivers.

6) RECREATIONAL PREFERENCE FOR ALLOCATION -
see comments above

Obviously any major change in the management paradigm may require substantial changes in fishing seasons and opportunities. It is typical for folks to expect changes in fisheries other than those that they are interested in. However in a change as dramatic as you are proposing all our fishing will be restructed. The acceptance of these changes have always been the obstacle to changing management structures. I suspect that to achieve the paradigm you are suggesting requires no ocean fishing it is essentially dead on arrival.

Are the folks that voted for this option in the poll ready to change their fishing to achieve these goals? or Does anyone want to change their vote?

Has been an interesting discussion. Thanks all. I'm will be out of town for the weekend however if this thread is still alive when I return I will check back in.

Tight lines
S malma