I'll take a stab at it Dave.
I guess 12lb for the first, and 10 for the second.
BTW, I was the guy in Monroe on thursday wearing the Green Simms coat and the Black Sage stocking hat. we were talking about building rods and the 10'6" sage blank you designed for Lamiglas.
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"Doing it right the first time is not an option, it's a requirement"