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#1008952 - 05/19/19 07:40 AM When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced?
RUNnGUN Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 914
Seems I ask this every year, but some funky dates this year with July 1st on a Monday, and the typical San Juan opening date, the 16th, on a Tuesday.
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"After fishing for Steelhead for over 40 years, Steelheading as I know it is gone in Puget Sound!"
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#1008953 - 05/19/19 09:04 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4614
Loc: Sequim
A good question. Larry B hasn't heard anything yet, but I'm sure he'll comment later.

State still hasn't submitted the 2018 harvest report. Shellfish staff is short-handed with some retirements from last year and more coming this year.

Commission policy (C-3609) says the summer season will be July - Labor Day for 5 days per week (Thursday/Monday). Last year they opened on June 30 inside and June 16 in MA 4 and 5. That conflicts with the policy, but .....

Not sure what they'll do this year. IF they follow the same scenario as last year, it MIGHT be June 29 for three days and then go to the 5 days per week starting July 4. MA 7 S opened July 14. MA 7 N opened Aug. 16 Last year, they didn't announce the opener until June 8.

Guess we just have to wait and see

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#1008956 - 05/19/19 09:38 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Steelheadman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 3625
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
I wouldn't mind if they closed it for summer. Last two years have sucked.
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#1008982 - 05/19/19 03:09 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Bushbear has pretty well summarized the current status which is that there is no update on the new webpage:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/shellfishing-regulations/crab.

This process is not as simple as one might think as there have to be stock assessments intended to result in an agreement with the tribes in each U&A as to total allowable harvest. This year there is also the question as to whether there will be seasons in several of the MAs (13, 11 and part of 12) tied to those stock assessments.

That is bad enough but the crab bios were given new hats this year as they had to take over for Mark O'Toole (shrimp guru) who had the audacity of retiring and was not replaced in time to oversee shrimp season. Not sure if the Department has yet filled that position.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1008985 - 05/19/19 03:43 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4655
Loc: Carkeek Park
I donít believe they announced the seasons last year until June 8th.
SF
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Founding Member - 2019 Pink Plague Opposition Party
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#1008987 - 05/19/19 04:21 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2757
Loc: Marysville
Larry B-
Any discussions with the WDFW about the role of increasing acidification of Puget Sound waters in those stock assessment concerns

Curt

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#1008989 - 05/19/19 05:39 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: Smalma]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Smalma
Larry B-
Any discussions with the WDFW about the role of increasing acidification of Puget Sound waters in those stock assessment concerns

Curt


Lots of speculation running from "normal" population cycles to acidification to abnormally high water temps or, worse yet, some combination of those factors.

Bottom line is that there have been a series of weak or failed Dungeness spawn events with little to no age class recruitment. It is not apparent that red rock have had the same problem which further confuses the situation.

I believe I am correct in saying that the closures are an effort to maintain some breeding potential particularly in those more marginal areas.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1008996 - 05/20/19 05:48 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2757
Loc: Marysville
Larry -
Thanks I suspect that folks are correct and we are looking at the result of the combination factors affecting crab survival. From the literature both higher acidic levels and temperatures have been shown to affect the survival/recruitment of Dungeness crabs.

Ph of 7.5/7.4 appears to be the threshold at which crab larva and molt survival is reduced. While the long term monitoring is hard to find those kinds of ph have been seen in deep south MA 12 and MA 13 for several years. Of additional concern is there may be an increase in those kinds of readings elsewhere in the Sound. All predicted changes associated with climate change.

Normal ocean ph is around 8.1 so I may not think a change to one of 7.4 is much of change but I would remind folks that the ph scale is logarithmic. That kind of change we are talking about is actually a 4 fold increase in acid levels.

Curt

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#1009002 - 05/20/19 08:34 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 399
Larry - there are very few dungies the last handful of years here in area 13. There are tons of red rocks though. Anywhere you go itís easy to catch dozens of giant keepers. I donít like them as much as dungies (not even close) but they taste good and my kids donít care. I lobbied some of the shellfish bios unsuccessfully to open it up for red rock. If nothing else itís a fun thing to do with my kids that is close and easy.

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#1009007 - 05/20/19 10:12 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: wsu]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: wsu
Larry - there are very few dungies the last handful of years here in area 13. There are tons of red rocks though. Anywhere you go itís easy to catch dozens of giant keepers. I donít like them as much as dungies (not even close) but they taste good and my kids donít care. I lobbied some of the shellfish bios unsuccessfully to open it up for red rock. If nothing else itís a fun thing to do with my kids that is close and easy.


An opener for red rock has been discussed but so far shellfish Staff have not been receptive; tough to overcome the inertia. If there are 2019 closures for Dungeness in 11 and 12 (south) and particularly if no indication of a Dungy stock improvement you can bet there will be far more pressure for just red rock in areas closed for Dungies.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1009009 - 05/20/19 10:31 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: Larry B]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 919
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Larry B

An opener for red rock has been discussed but so far shellfish Staff have not been receptive; tough to overcome the inertia. If there are 2019 closures for Dungeness in 11 and 12 (south) and particularly if no indication of a Dungy stock improvement you can bet there will be far more pressure for just red rock in areas closed for Dungies.


I realize that Red Rocks are not as desirable, but if a recreational fishery IS opened for them, does that mean there will also be a Tribal/Commercial fishery, to keep it fair?

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#1009010 - 05/20/19 10:57 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 4655
Loc: Carkeek Park
Just an FYI.
I've fished a number of places in the sound and canal recently.
I've seen a lot of crabs mated up in the shallows and eel grass. The last time I saw this many was in 2016.
Not saying it is going to be a great crabbing season, but compared to 2017 and 2018 I've seen a lot more.
Most of these though will be gone by June when the carpet bombing begins while we wait for our seasons to open.

I haven't seen a legal sized crab in the south end of MA 12 in a good five plus years.
SF
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Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2019 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
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#1009012 - 05/20/19 11:02 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: Bay wolf]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Originally Posted By: Larry B

An opener for red rock has been discussed but so far shellfish Staff have not been receptive; tough to overcome the inertia. If there are 2019 closures for Dungeness in 11 and 12 (south) and particularly if no indication of a Dungy stock improvement you can bet there will be far more pressure for just red rock in areas closed for Dungies.


I realize that Red Rocks are not as desirable, but if a recreational fishery IS opened for them, does that mean there will also be a Tribal/Commercial fishery, to keep it fair?


They have traditionally been "open" as part of the general crab season and the tribes have had access to them under their treaties. The NT commercials would presumably have the same restrictions/opportunities (if any) as during seasons where it was open for Dungies. Bottom line there probably isn't enough money for the commercial guys to want to target them.

Concerns include illegal retention of Dungies as well as pot/handling mortality on them.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1009033 - 05/20/19 05:54 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
MPM Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 742
Loc: Seattle, WA
Larry B, who should sporties talk to/petition/pester *beforehand* if we'd really like to see a red rock season even if dungies are closed (for example, in MA 11)?

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#1009043 - 05/20/19 09:07 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4614
Loc: Sequim
You could start with a request to the Commission asking for consideration.

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#1009044 - 05/20/19 09:08 PM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: MPM]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: MPM
Larry B, who should sporties talk to/petition/pester *beforehand* if we'd really like to see a red rock season even if dungies are closed (for example, in MA 11)?


First off, the P.S. Recreational crab and shrimp advisory group has been promised that they will have their activities documented on its own webpage (https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory). Not being represented there is NOT a function of the new web site; that advisory group has never been available on the WDFW webpage.

The Department's liaison for that group is Bob Sizemore who is also the Shellfish Manager. The internal administrative framework of WDFW is lost on me until you get to the Director and his Deputy. So there it is, top and bottom. Then there is the Commission.

Edit:

Here is the organizational chain, bottom to top:

Sizemore: Robert.Sizemore@dfw.wa.gov

Warren: Ron.Warren@dfw.wa.gov

Susewind: Kelly.Susewind@dfw.wa.gov

Commission: commission@dfw.wa.gov

You might want to send your input to Mr. Sizemore and "CC" the others.



Edited by Larry B (05/20/19 11:54 PM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1009049 - 05/21/19 06:47 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
RUNnGUN Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 914
Received this info. from within the WDFW:

"Final negotiations with the Tribes on management are finishing soon and the summer crab season will be announced shortly. Here are the anticipated, and yet not final start dates."

MA4-Thurs. July 4th.
MA5,6,8.1,8.2,9, & 10- Thurs. July 4th.
MA7 South- No specific date but sometime around the 3rd week of July.
MA7 North- " " " " " " Thurs. Aug. 15th.

Once the season starts it will be open Thur.- Mondays of each week.
_________________________
"After fishing for Steelhead for over 40 years, Steelheading as I know it is gone in Puget Sound!"
ME

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#1009050 - 05/21/19 06:58 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5479
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Not a crab biologist, so I don't know the life history details, but if pH and ecological/Sound conditions are so bad for Dungeness why are the Red Rocks flourishing?

I know that, for example, the FW storm runoff affects coho disproportionately to the other salmonids but this sure looks more like over harvest.

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#1009055 - 05/21/19 07:56 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: RUNnGUN]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Received this info. from within the WDFW:

"Final negotiations with the Tribes on management are finishing soon and the summer crab season will be announced shortly. Here are the anticipated, and yet not final start dates."

MA4-Thurs. July 4th.
MA5,6,8.1,8.2,9, & 10- Thurs. July 4th.
MA7 South- No specific date but sometime around the 3rd week of July.
MA7 North- " " " " " " Thurs. Aug. 15th.

Once the season starts it will be open Thur.- Mondays of each week.


Recognizing that this is unofficial there is no mention of MA 11 and MA 13 openings for either Dungeness or red rock as anticipated nor is MA 12 (Hood Canal) mentioned at all.

Does that mean MA 12 will be closed in its entirety for 2019?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1009059 - 05/21/19 08:37 AM Re: When Will PS Crab Seasons Be Announced? [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Not a crab biologist, so I don't know the life history details, but if pH and ecological/Sound conditions are so bad for Dungeness why are the Red Rocks flourishing?

I know that, for example, the FW storm runoff affects coho disproportionately to the other salmonids but this sure looks more like over harvest.


That kind of seditious talk will get you banned from the 3-S club (size/sex/season).

Your question about why (what is happening to Dungeness versus red rock) has been asked but there is no clear cut answer available. Speculation was just as you suggested.....that those two species are sufficiently different in tolerances and/or life cycle timing to react differently to changing conditions (at least in the short term).

My personal observations and speculations are based in large part on my own crabbing where year after year I have rowed out and placed pots in the same location in MA 8-2. Not only has there been a significantly decrease in harvestable crab but also a decrease in females. That indicates to me more going on than just over harvest of 6 1/4 and above males.

That said, the 3-S model may work adequately when all other factors are stable. However, if something out there has changed to include just the "normal" cyclical nature of Dungeness crab biomass the 3-S model may exacerbate the swings making the lows deeper and longer.

If the population is on a downward swing and we continue to believe we can harvest all male crab 6 1/4 and above at what point do we have the numbers of breeding males be insufficient keeping in mind that the recruitment into that sexually mature group is also dropping?

A final point - last week I saw whole Dungeness crab in the local market at over $10.00/#. Whether it is selling here at that price point is another matter but we also know much of the West Coast harvest is shipped out of the region and out of the country.

Final caveat: I am also not a crab biologist and my opinions are mine alone.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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