The previous thread was about selecting a fly rod, but I noticed that Steeliegreg recommended picking a disc drag reel. It's not my intent to pick on Greg, but he raised a point, and I'd like to examine it.

It's been quite a while, but again, I'll ask, why?

I made a lengthy post long ago in a fly fishing BB forum that no longer exists that I've never had a reason to consider disc drags necessary for freshwater fly fishing, except for a steady diet of fishing for kings.

I've landed 3 kings over 20 pounds without the benefit of a disc drag. Since then, whenever I hook a king, I point my rod at it and break the tippet. But I agree that a mechanical drag would be an asset on a fly reel regularly used for fishing king salmon. And if I was a chum masochist, I might even relent and consider one for that application.

Otherwise, what freshwater fly fishing application really benefits from disc drag reels? I've landed 3 steelhead over 20 pounds and some high 'teeners and never felt the least bit under-equiped for not having a disc drag. All those fish were caught on Hardy reels with their standard traditional spring and pawl mechanisms, lacking even the exposed spool rim that makes palming so effective. I use the infinitely adjustable drag of my finger(s) on the reel spool, and I feel like I know exactly how much pressure I'm putting on the fish. A disc drag at a given setting varies the pressure of resistance depending how much line is on the reel spool, ever increasing as more line is payed out, a concept that I'm not comfortable with.

After steelhead and salmon, is a disc drag really anything beyond an advertising gew-gaw on a fly reel used for trout fishing or other freshwater species?

I've read in several publications on internet web sites advocating or stressing the "need" for disc drag reels. But I've yet to see a persuasive case made for their freshwater application. How necessary do you believe disc drags are for freshwater fly reels? And why? What does it do that you cannot do as or more effectively yourself?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Hey thanks Salmo. g

I was kind of wondering this myself, but thought better of posting it because I have NEVER caught a fish greater than 3 lbs. on a fly reel. In fact, even if I get good, I'll likely mostly be hooking into 5 - 8 lbs. silvers.

I'm interested in the responses to this post. It does seem like being able to palm the reel, rather than trying to fit your fingers onto the reel would be useful and less painful. NO?

Thanks,
jd

I think that is the hype that the reel makers put out there to get you to buy their reels. Of all the fish that I have caught on my 4wt and 5wt. I only used the drag once because it was on a chum when I was fishing for dollies. But it sure put a nice bend in the rod.

Jim

Shame on you for taking away an excuse to buy something expensive. Next thing you'll be saying the average person can tell the difference between a $600 flyrod and one for $200.

the disc drags are very nice to have if you are fighting fish in the salt water or big fish in rivers. They are also helpful for less experienced people so they dont try to use their hands to add extra pressure to running fish.
I would never fish any big saltwater game fish without a disc drag.

BUT this is about freshwater as was specified, so here goes.
I would like people to use them for steelhead to that they dont extend the fight by having a poor drag, but you dont have to have one. Most trout I catch, i never even bother to put on the reel. It takes a pretty big trout to need to reel it in as opposed to strip, so i dont think you really need the disc for trout.

Dingo,

My bad! But disc drags are apparently not that expensive. Notice that the discontinued Ross Colorado, spring and pawl reel, at $110, was only $35 less than the low end disc drag model they used to offer. I forget the model name, and I see that the low end model now costs more. However, my point is that disc drags don't have to add a lot to the cost of a reel. And it appears Ross uses the same disc drag on all price lines of their reels. Seems like wasteful weight and bulk on a trout reel to me.

Yeah, the average angler couldn't tell a cheap fly rod from an expensive one, if he's blind-folded. It seems like there just aren't many bad fly rods around anymore. Not like the days when clubs were common, even 10 or so years ago, cheap graphite sticks were pretty bad. I couldn't believe it last summer when a co-worker needed a fly rod to go trout fishing with another co-worker. He stopped at a hardware store in Wenatchee and picked up an amazingly functional 5 wt. for $36! However, when we were in Yellowstone last fall, it broke at the ferrule (could be he didn't have it seated properly, or it could have been insufficient graphite fabric at the joint). Anyway, that restored my faith that a quality rod should at least cost more than $50. Nonetheless, that was amazing. I can't buy the guides, cork, and reelseat for $36. The increasing quality of import rods are gonna' give domestic manufacturers a comeuppance, I'm afraid.

OK, so the closest we have to a persuasive case for disc drags on freshwater reels is for the novice to gain experience playing large fish. I might go for that. But I was a novice once, and I played steelhead on my Hardy Princess without a problem. I think if a person is coordinated enough to fly cast, they can probably handle the complex logistics of using their finger or palm to put drag on a fish. I just have faith in humanity, I guess.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I'll jump back in here. I agree with you that you truly don't need a disk drag. However, there are many other advances in technology that offer some benefit, which are also not needed. Breathable waders, high-modulas graphite rods, pontoon-boats, etc... but they are nice to have if, and only if, you can afford them. I like my disk drag reels because they work great, don't ever freeze up, never overspool, and can assist in tiring a steelhead or salmon more quickly. I even use my Ross Cimarron 4(the cheap line of disks by Ross) on my down rigger set up. Just convienience and confidence in the gear, I suppose. Having said all that, I have 7 Medalist reels from light trout to steelhead/salmon, and learned how to fish with them. It probably is better to start with a palming reel, just for the education of how to do it. My random thoughts anyway. Just like I would suggest a cheap pair of breathable waders over neoprene or hip boots.

salmo g.- look at it this way. You are a guide and you take out a lot of clients that are getting into the sport because of the movie or because it is not considered fashionable. These are people that spend a lot of money on a guide and want results. It is much easier to have them use a disk drag than have them try to palm a reel.

I also have found that the disk drags are a lot easier to keep clean and working well. I havent ever had a problem with my Ross Big Games but I have had a lot of the click-pawl drags blow out on me when I have been fighting steelhead and atlantic salmon. Especially Reddingtons a few years ago

For trout I see them as unneeded. But for salmon and steelhead in bothe the rivers and the salt I like to use them. One real great place to have them is in swifter water where a 5 pound coho turns into a 15 pound coho with the help of the current.

From a Spey rod users perspective, you almost can't get a reel that doesn't have a 'disk drag' of some sort (Older Hardy's being a notable exception).

The 'drag' created by you line going through the guides provides a considerable amount of force against all but the largest of fish. Or as someone noted above, a relatively large fish whose gotten into fast current.

If I remember correctly, even on level wind reels the recemodation is the drag should be set for a max. of 1/2 of the tippet breaking figure.

My reel drags are really only set to prevent 'over run' if I get ham-handed 'palming the reel.'

Should have added: a 'lot of drag' on a spey rod is almost a guarentee (remember the length of the typical rod) that the fish will go in to a 'jumping mode' due to the lheight of the rod tip over the water. That's when you'll loose most of them unless your quick thinking enough to 'bow to the fish.'

Great discussion; I have to come down on the side of Salmo. I long ago lost count of the number steelhead landed with my old Hardy St. Aidan and when I bought my first spey rod I had no hesitation hanging a Hardy Marquis Salmon 2 on it. I'm in the fortunate position of being able to get just about any reel I want at a reasonable price and, more and more, I find myself leaning toward spring-and-pawl reels for everything except my 10- and 12- weights during my annual foray to the Sea of Cortez for dorado and billfish.

I was cleaning out my landlords garage last weekend. Her ex was a flyfishermen back in the day and she said I could keep anything I wanted ("that rat ******* sure as hell aint ever coming back for that crap") and I found a really old Pflueger Medalist. It is super sweet, I polished it up, oiled it and am going to paint it up reel nice. Its my new bass reel.

Fly-Guy, for all but the largest fly reel applications, the P/M's are hard to beat. Used them for years!! without a single failure .... will I did drive over one ... but that doesn't count.

Thanks for the discussion. The only newly identified situation that comes close to qualifying as a "need" for a disc drag relates to the guide having his newbies use them. I hadn't considered that one. Otherwise I believe we still stand at king salmon in freshwater and several saltwater applications as being the only real need. FJ15, it may be nice to have that disc drag when the 5 pound coho hits fast water, but that is a far cry from a need in my opinion, more like newbie, I think. Did you know that baitcasting reels did not used to have any built in drag? It was all done with the thumb, hence thumb-burning resulted from hooking large, fast fish. Come on now, you aren't helpless. How hard is it to apply a little resistance to a palming surface of the spool or the line/backing on the spool?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

While I don't subscribe to the 'need' side I do prefer a disc over the old ratchet. With my disc drag reels I don't 'need' to set them any heavier than a standard spring/pawl reel. But I can set them much higher for other species. The butter smooth drag with a purring click on the outtake keeps me plenty happy without chancing 'waking the dead' or vibrating any fillings out.

It's getting to the point I can't stand the Hardy racket (Look, look at me, I have a fish on) and moreover I really can't stand the rediculous design. A reel that is built to fail- take a good look at any old Perfect and see what happens to the ratchet gear affixed to the crank plate. The teeth get rounded off. Why do the reels come with an extra spring??? Or the JLH that has crappy aluminum rivets (to hold the pawl spindles to the frame) that eventually crack. I take sides w/Alexander Grant- complete anathema!

The arguement that 'just because nothing more is usually needed' for steelhead does not automatically give them the default position of #1 choice for fly anglers.

William

Hi Williiam! Didn't know you contributed to this board.
fae

"It was all done with the thumb, hence thumb-burning resulted from hooking large, fast fish." I still have, and use, my 'old' Amb. 2600 that has no drag .... save for your thumb on the spinning spool. Used to carry a leather glove in the front of my waders to 'pop on' when I stuck a fish.

Saved a considerable amount of 'meat' off the end of the didget 'pre-Bolt.'
fae

Inland,

What can I say? Value diversity. You needn't subscribe to something you don't care for. Looks like you fit the demographic manufacturers are targeting.

I don't have any Perfects, but many of my friends do. The design seems odd to me, but many of these reels have been in continuous service for 60 years and more. I'm not so certain they are designed to fail. I've got a Hardy Princess that's over 30 years old. It's made as a trout reel, but mine's been playing steelhead since day one and functions as well as ever. My St. John and St. George have never given a moment's trouble either, showing only the scratches and wearing of paint that comes with regular use.

The sound of the spring and pawl reels doesn't bother me; I grew to like it right away. Yeah, there are times and places I'd rather not advertise to others that I'm playing a fish, but it's never been a significant concern to me.

One of the things I enjoy most from fly fishing is its potential simplicity. The disc drags are one more thing detracting from that for me.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Howdy Fred,

Things get too mundane on the 'other' board with the same stuff different day.

Salmo G,

I used to really dig the Hardy scream and actually own more Hardy's than anything else. My JLH is now up on cinder blocks, oil leaking all over the driveway, because it's so fragile. An old Perfect (1920's) is completely worthless since it over-runs incessantly because the pawls don't have any gear left to properly engage the spring. And finally a Bougle who's gear is already rounding along with the stupid wooden handle that swells up and locks when wet.

But I'm not too sure about fitting into 'their' demographic. The only modern mass produced American reel I own is an Abel #4 with the 'click out' gimmick. It is used as back up only and really collects dust.

The reel's that get wet are my personal maker's proofs. The rest of the time it is one of my Bogdan's. When one of these reels goes off from a fish tearing line, Mozart comes to mind rather than Linkin Park. Once you get used to this kind of precision and 'look', it is REALLY hard to go back to the English reels.

William

"Things get too mundane on the 'other' board with the same stuff different day."

William, had to smile (large!) when I read the above. I haven't found a reason to post in over a week. Put something in to break the monotiny -sp?' and catch a rationof .... sigh.

For those of you who don't know, you've got to see the quality of the rods William builds (I have two of his Burkie's) and his custom made reels. WORKS OF ART!!!

Inland,

Indeed, you don't fit any manufacturer's demographic if you machine your own reels. How was I to know? I responded to your criticism of the Hardys. I agree that they are not built as well as it is humanly possible to make a fly reel. However, most of us don't require one that perfect. From what I know, most Hardys give most owners a lifetime of service. Obviously your mileage has varied. Fortunately, you have a better option.

I recall when Wes Drain decided to machine some reels of his own. While the craftsmanship was impeccable, he basically copied the Hardy design of the St. John, without the spool perforations.

I have a Bogdan steelhead model, but I rarely use it. Aside from some sentimental value, I keep it as an example of precision machining. It's hardly necessary to meet the needs of practical angling. Which is what I began this thread about. How much reel is necessary for our rather simple task? How necessary is a disc drag for the relatively simple effort required to play most freshwater gamefish? The concensus, if any, is that they are handy for playing king salmon, and a fishing guide's day is easier if his clients are equiped with them. If you're machining your own reels, you probably have experience enough that you don't require a disc drag either, altho you may like one nonetheless.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.