I saw at the sports show in February some interesting little bunny leech flies tied on jig hooks with lead dumbell eyes as the weight. Then I saw the same style fly in one of the film presentations in one of the theaters, and the fly had an incredibly wild, or seductive, action, take your pick. Anyway, I bought some #4 jig hooks and two sizes of nickle-plated dumbell eyes and began by tying the lead eyes on the hooks. I haven't tied the fur strips on yet, but need to do so for an upcoming trip.

I was wondering if anyone here has tried this style of fly, (or is it a jig?) and what do you think of it? I'm decidedly not partial to casting weighted flies, but I thought these streamers, balanced the way they are on the jig hooks, might be worth trying.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I call them jig flies. More jig than fly. But as long as you aren't in a fly fishing only area, who cares? (besides the 'purists'...)

The bad part about them is that they can be used as a effective snagging tool. But then so can just about anything that has a hook.

But as you noted, it's that swimming action that sets them appart.

You could fish them below a big 'strike indicator', but then why bother fly fishing? Just get a spinning rod and west coast float and jig fish for real...

There are a few sitiuations where these jig flies really shine in my experience (I fly fish and jig fish, and have often combined both approaches like this)...

Slow deep pools \ back eddies:

Cast out, let sink a little, strip in 6 - 10 inches, let sink, strip, sink, etc. The jig fly will rise and fall and drive the fish crazy. Experiment with jigging as you are stripping. You can start at the surface and them work it allong the bottom. Just don't lift the rod too fast or strip to fast. Just a gentle motion is all that is needed. Eventually you will be able to tell the difference between a rock, log, fish belly, or fish mouth juist by the feel and at what point you feel the 'bite'. Most takes will be as the jig fly is sinking, so as soon as you strip or lift the rod tip, you'll feel resistance. If questionable, I do a test strike by just pulling a little to see if I get a head shake. If I feel a headshake, I set the hook hard. If not, I gently tug until it frees up from whatever it was hung up on or rubbing against.

The other time I really like them is when working a nice run that has a good current seam. Then I either high stick nymph fish the jig\fly down the fast side, or try more of a classic drift and swing approach, then at the end of the swing you can let it hang for a second, then raise and drop it - allowing it to free fall 4-10 inches and just dance up and down. Strip in a few feet and repeat.

In both water types, I've had steelhead and salmon go crazy for it. Coho love it the most as do pinks. My top jig\fly has been a big cerise or hot pink fly. I've taken SRCs, Dollies, Coho, Steelies with that jig\fly.

How does a person snag when using a strike indicator \ float?

A lot of gear guys switch to floats and jigs when the salmon are in thick. They do this because it is too easy (and frustrating) to snag the fish when drift fishing. The float keeps the jig\fly above the fish, so only those fish in a 'biting mood' will come off the bottom and take the jig\fly.

I fly fish and gear fish both. I don't like indicators on my fly rod. If I want to fish that way, I just use my gear rod because it is more effienct when doing that. But other times I prefer my fly rod for presentation and other times just asthetics.

If I really wanted to snag (and I DON'T), I wouldn't use a float\indicator - i'd use a lot of weight, cast into stacked fish, and YANK. Or i'd use either a long leader+ lightly weighted fly + floating line, or medium leader+sinktip+nonweighted fly and floss the fish. Again, why would I need to use a float?

I've read the definitions in the Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet and don't see any restriction on weighted eyes or weight on the fly itself in fly fishng only areas. Am I missing something?

Thanks Phreak. I'll report back on my experience.

H2H, jig hooks swim with the hook pointed up. I would think they wouldn't be so good for snagging. As for the situation on the Stilly, I've seen more than I needed. There were steelheaders with conventional fly gear that became fairly adept at snagging back when Fortson had 80 - 100 summer runs stacked in it during low water. (Fortson was about twice as long as present prior to the 1980 flood.) But the kings have been under attack for as long as I can remember. I've found a Montana grey nymph (4/0 treble with lead wrapped shank attached to 80 # dacron) in a tree and even encountered 4 guys with a spear gun once. Oh, and a real dupond spinner went off several hundred yards upstream once. All kinds of debris came floating down, and then the water became turbid for a few minutes. I've encountered some real "sportsmen" over the years.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

OTS,

Fly fishing regs didn't use to allow any weight. No lead wire or lead eyes on the hook. No lead shot on the leader or the line. I'm not sure when that changed. It surprised me a few years ago when I realized that it had.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Still doesn't allow "weight attached to the leader or line" but doesnt seem to prohibit as part of the fly itself.

H2H, I'm familiar with the issues on the stilly. They ban weighted flies to deal with the snagging issue when the kings are in sometimes. I haven't heard of them banning the indicators though. Seems like the issue is with weighted flies - not indicators as you stated.

Indicators can still be used to snag with just by making sure your fly\jig floats through a pod of fish. If the fly rubs against them and your 'indicator' hesitates, leans, twitches, etc - you give a good hearty bass'n style yank. But stripping a weighted fly through the pod would be more effective if snagging was your intention.

Anyway, my point or question is - why is an indicator considered a snagging tool? Surely a guy could use the 'jim teeney' approach and look more 'legit' and snag\floss much more effectively....

H2H,

One time, long ago, I spotted "Team Spear Gun" up above Swede Haven bridge. I was in the woods and could overhear them talking. They hadn't any luck, and so one of them says, "Why don't we go try the fish ladder at Granite Falls?" I guess I learned that day that king poaching on the Stilly was an established and brazen tradition. It made the guy at Fortson who snagged steelhead in the dorsal fin with his fly seem pretty small time by comparison.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I personally dislike "cator" fishing and for steelhead i do not believe it is fly fishing.
I believe that fly fishing is defined by fly casting. In fly casting it is the weight of the line that propels the lure to the fish, with gear fishing it is the weight of the lure or added attatchments that propels itself to the target towing the line behind it.

All that said i have no problem if people wanna use indicators. However when they fish one run for hours at a time they are no longer just fishing they, by drifting time after time after time are harassing the fish. I believe that this shows a lack of ethic on the part of thoes who fish that way.. if a fish refuses your fly try another one or maybe 3 or 4 more.. them move on.. don't sit there hammering on the sam fish for an hour..

Now i really doubt anyone in here does that so i am preeching to the choir..

SalmoG. if something looks like a good idea to you go for it..

I personally don't like heavily weighted flies. after using them with much success I began to think that I was catching fish because of the lead and not because of my own knowledge and skills. Now my weighted flues consist of cone head string leeches which i use in the winter on a floating line and shank flies with lead eyes i fish on tips and I only ise the lead eyes there because they are required for the fly to swim properly..

You guys who dead drift a lot on small winter rivers owe it to yourselves to tie up a pattern called a silver and orange, and tie them on a Mustad 7970.. as Bill McMillian said. "nothing sinks faster than a bare hook..

Silver and Orange variation one

Tail: a few fibers or orange calf tail
Body: flat silver tinsle
Throat: Orange calf tail
Wing : White calf tail

Silver and orange Variation two

Body: flat silver tinsle
collar: orange hackle
Wing : white calf tail

Now this ones Da Bomb

Paint Bush ( pink)
body :silver tinsle palmered with hot pink saddle
Collar: white saddle

tie all these on the mustad 7970 size 2

Quarter it up stream give it a couple stack mends take up the slack and make ready to set the hook as the line curves back upstream...

Anyway i am way off topic here but there it is anyway:)

I've used this style fly a lot for silvers and humpies. Works well in deep pools when the fish are stacked and seem to be non biters. I think the rising and dropping action of the weighted fly is what stimulates this. I usually use marabou instead of bunny fur for more movement in slow water and don't use jig hooks, though tie the eyes so the fly works point up in the same way. And yes you could snag fish this way if you wanted to, but I'm fishing above the fish and have seen 5 or more fish peel out of the school to chase the fly. Pretty cool.

jam session

I see your from Deadwood, WA.
So am I maybe we could get together some day?

It is even more cool to float a dry over the top of holding slimers and get the aggressive ones to hit it.

While fishing the Stilly a few slimer seasons ago I had to switch to a floating line and a dry fly because there were so many humps you could not avoid snagging them with any other type of gear. I think I managed about 5 or 6 hits on a dry fly in about an hour. Landed a couple of them.

I tie my clousers on 1/0 jig hooks. But I use these in the salt for silvers and pinks. Chartruse/white, olive/white and pink/white. I tie them two different way, marabou and bucktail.the jig hook gives them great action.

I have also seen jigs for gear fishing tied with dumbell eyes instead of with jigheads. I use weighted leeches in the winter, but not on jig hooks. I know some people use them to snag fish but I never intentionally try to sneg fish, I just don't understand why somepeople do.

Actually, I try not to get into the jig/fly debate. Myself, I use both gear/fly, so keep both seperate. There has been a long time built jig as described above made especially for gear fisherman. John's Jigs made them famous well over a decade ago. I'd consider it a jig, but that's because they've been jigs for quite a long time. If I put a green butt skunk tied on a salmon fly hook on the end of my bait casting rod, it's still a fly (not an unweighted fly lure). If someone wants to use one, so be it. As long as it's legal for them to use. Myself, I'll only use them on jig rods.

Onto snagging. OH YES THEY CAN SNAG QUITE WELL. Especially if you have a strike indicator on doing a swing with a fly rod. Heck, you can do it with a jig rod too if you want. The upturned eye benefits the snagger. More so if you don't use a float at all (using it on a dry flyline with no SI or a sinktip). Cast into a stacked pool and yank up (with or without a SI on). That jig is riding up, and will drive into whatever it can. Not saying everyone using them are snaggers. But you CAN snag with them. I have personally watched on a few slots where fish were stacking up (I normally fish away from them as the water recedes in tidal areas, normally only fishing at high tide when fish move). The guys will toss out to far bank and the the jig hit bottom and start hooksetting as they reel in. Usually they would hook (or shall I say snag since none were ever remotely hooked in mouth) up everywhere BUT in the mouth. Now, some were hooking in mouth, but for most part the rest were all snagging. So, just to dispell any misconceptions (since I've been fishing jigs since 1989), you can snag with them. Just depends on HOW you use them. Like I said, not everyone fishing them is snagging, just the method you use to present them that does it.