This is from Speypages thread “Fighting Fish on a Doublehander”

By Riveraddict

http://www.speypages.com


Fighting Fish on a Doublehander

This is a continuation of the fish fighting conversation started under the 9141 Rod thread.

First off, rod talk. Until recently, for the most part, the design of DH rods has been heavily influenced by European requirements. Easy to understand since the largest market for these rods has in fact, been Europe. The main point of this in regards to the subject of fish fighting is that Atlantic salmon are larger than steelhead. A "trophy" sized steelhead of 20 pounds is no bigger than some "normal sized" Atlantic salmon in certain rivers. Some Atlantic salmon rivers offer the very real prospect of hooking salmon approaching or surpassing the 40 pound mark. It is only reasonable to expect that most DH rods are designed to have the capability for fighting fish 20 pounds or larger.

Secondly, the relationship of rod size by line designation between single handed rods and DH's is way off base. A #7 DH is at least one to two rod sizes OVER a singlehander designated as a 7, in most cases. A 590 grain Skagit line casts well on several makes of #7 DH rods, but it takes an 8/9 singlehander to accomplish the same Skagit casts with this particular line.

So, most steelheaders in the PNW would select a #9 singlehander for winter steelheading and a #7 singlehander for summer steelheading as being good "all around" rods for these situations. Most everyone would consider using a #11 singlehanded rod for fishing let's say the Grande Ronde or the Skykomish for summer fish as being total overkill. Yet, many of the same folks have no qualms about using a 15' 10 weight DH in either of those two circumstances. Remember the facts stated above - a #10 Dh is at LEAST comparable in power to a #11 single.

...and people wonder why they lose so many steelhead on a DH rod and have to fight a fish "off of the tip".


So, whattup with that?

#1. Big rods have the tendency to "suck" people into the fantasy of casting mega-huge distances. If that's your bag - casting "way out there" is the primary reason you fish, and catching fish is secondary - then that's cool for you, keep on a castin'.

#2. Big rods are easier - in the beginning - to actually go out and fish with because you can in fact just "bash" a cast out with such rods without having had to acquire very much skill. If you don't have the time available to practice, or the patience to spend the time to learn, or the discipline it takes to realize that at first you are not going to be able to cast very far, then get the biggest rod you can and bash away!

BUT, if you consider casting to be a means for catching fish, and you actually want to LEARN how to REALLY cast, and be able to use a rod that provides the most sport with the fish you are after, then be wary the big rod craze. When deciding on which DH rod to get, first consider what the MOST COMMON fishing distance is going to be. Then, factor in the MOST COMMON size and types of flies to be used. Finally, consider what the MOST COMMON size of fish is going to be. Determining these criterion should then allow you to be able to select a rod weight, length, and action that will be very well aligned with your fishing situation AND allow for having the most enjoyment while fighting fish.


Example

I want to fish the Grande Ronde effectively (under general conditions, barring extremely high and dirty, or winds over 25mph), and still enjoy "good sport" with its race of steelhead. This river is on the smaller side of medium as far as western rivers go. In most places a 70' cast (combined with wading) will put one beyond the centerline of the river. The fish are on the small side of the steelhead spectrum, averaging around 5 to 6 pounds (the 8 pounds touted by some individuals is pure *&#%$!). The flies are also on the smaller side, generally size 1 to 6, with weight coming in handy during the latter part of the season, as well as light sinktips.

Starting with rod length. 12 1/2' to 13 1/2' is plenty for covering out to around 70' and yet still allows for working in fairly tight to willow lined "highbanks".
Rod weight. Since everything about this fishing scenario is scaled towards the small end of steelheading, let's start at the small end of DH rods. A #5 would work - for the expert caster. What's more realistic are the #6's and #7's. Both weights will handle light sinktips and/or small weighted flies nicely, and can power through light to moderate breezes. Both line weights are also very well tuned into the fighting of fish in that 5 to 6 pound range, and have enough butt to handle 8, 9, and 10 pounders.

These parameters are as set for someone that is willing to truly learn to cast (with qualified instruction and consistent practice, attainable in 1 to 2 years). The rod range mentioned will easily handle the majority of casting situations on the Ronde, and yet they are not so overpowering as to make the catching of 5 and 6 pound steelhead seem like derricking panfish out of a pond with a canepole.

Now, let's get into how to fight a steelhead with a rod that actually bends...


Fish anatomy...

The first step to fighting fish effectively with a long rod is in understanding a bit about a fish's physiology. Fish are built for lateral muscle movement. Example - point your left index finger at the wall, like your hand is a gun, the index finger is the barrel of the gun. Curl your index finger back in halfway towards your palm and straighten it out again. If your index finger is a fish, it bends like this (sort of) to swim, only both ways (sides). Now, take your right index finger, press it against the tip of your straightened out left index finger and try to lift the left index finger up. If your left index finger is the fish, the backbone, much like your finger, has minimal flex in an up-down aspect. This means that if you are pulling in an upward direction when fighting a fish that you are in fact doing very little to "tire" the fish because you are "fighting" the rigidity of its skeletal structure instead of "fatigueing" its muscles. The quickest way to tire a fish is to apply lateral (sideways pressure) to work on its MUSCLES. This is ONE reason why a sideways attitude on a rod when fighting a fish is more EFFECTIVE.

Jarring or shocking of the fly is a most significant factor for causing hooks to dislodge from a hooked fish. This action causes slack to be introduced into the line, and BINGO! fish off! Next time you snag your fly onto a branch out of the water, "bounce" the rod, while holding it vertical, rapidly and vigorously, not up and down, but rather towards and away from the snag and watch how often the fly "pops" free. This is similar to what happens when a fish "headshakes" or "rolls around" on the end of your line. The way to combat this is by keeping the rod at a sideways attitude so that the majority of line is UNDER the surface of the water. The water tension on the line acts as a "shock absorber", and in combination with the "spring" of the rod, cushions the line from too much direct jarring, and prevents total slack from being introduced into the line. This is another reason why a sideways rod attitude when fighting a fish is more EFFECTIVE.

This does not mean that you should ALWAYS have the rod sideways... clearing obstructions you have to go vertical.

Rods that bend deeper into the blank when fighting fish (regardless of "action", if sized for the fish, any rod action can be bent into the butt) allow one to apply MORE pressure onto a fish WITHOUT the fear of breaking off or tearing out, which for most anglers will result in fish being landed quicker, provided one does indeed know the limits of their tackle.

Riveraddict

There are some good points in that article or essay. DH rods do seem to come in "over-gunned" sizes for the fishing that I do. My first DH was one of the 16' prototypes Jimmy Green made at Fenwick. It handled a full DT10F or 1/4" rope with equal ease. The first steelhead I caught with it was a poor 6 pound fish that I literally dericked up out of the water and swung it onto the bank behind some brush. The rod was so long I couldn't get near the fish.

The next DH was the very popular Sage 9140 that many probably still consider a good winter run rod. When I contrast it with the 8, and even 9, wt. single handed rods I use for steelhead, that rod is a thunderstick, too. I found that is was over-gunning for steelhead under 14 or 15 pounds. And unfortunately perhaps, most of the steelhead I catch are smaller than that, even on the mighty Skagit.

So a few years ago I discovered a little 12' 7/8 wt. blank at Angler's Workshop. It surely is a bit noodley, but the butt section is comparable to my 8 wt. single handed rod. I've fished it for several years quite happily - until -

I attended last year's Spey Clave on the Sky and tried a bunch of different rods. What a mistake that was, with respect to my bank account. I was smitten by the line of rods by CND, not their big guns named Skagit and Thompson, but more modest fishing tools. I've got a 12' Spey Tracker and a 13' Custom 7/8, and both are a sheer joy to cast and fish with. They pitch the line to a fishable length and have a balance that none of my other DH's come close to.

Now, as to "fighting" a fish, what's with this fighting? Fighting suggests some sort of mutual peril. The only steelhead I ever felt imperiled by was by a mobster of a fish on a rough spot on the Thompson by the American Bar. That one did work me over a bit roughly, but that was due in part to it being an icy cold morning, with my lungs burning from a long chase, hampered by skipping and skating over bolders that are slicker than deer guts on a door knob. All the rest of the time, however, I play a steelhead, I don't fight it. And most of the biggest steelhead I've caught were on an 8 1/2' fibreglass rod, so I know it doesn't take all that much of a tool to play out a steelhead and land it. The biggest fish was landed on the 9140, but I don't think that guy ever knew he was hooked until he finally wore down enough to lay over on his side. I'm not sure any rod suitable for actually fishing with would have been noticed by that fish; he was just that big. So enough with this "fighting" the fish nonsense already.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

LOVE IT!! You two have it 'nailed.'

Why ANYONE would buy a 10, or higher weight, spey rod is really beyond me. Very few applications for these in the PNW IMHO.

You could 'almost' say the same thing for rods in excess of 14 feet.

Why not a 10 wgt spey rod for kings ? That can be even light IMHO on the big ones.

FL

Firstlight,

It might be a reasonable choice for big kings, but the discussion was oriented more toward steelhead.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Fred,

ANYONE? Undeniably I totally enjoy my big meat sticks- 15' 10 wts. They only get used on the largest of rivers that also tend to contain double digit average steelhead.

Would I use one on the Ronde? Nope. Ronde fish are what they are. Fishing a 9' 4wt can't even make them enjoyable beyond the grab. Nor would a spey tracker. I don't care what rod you use. A dog is a dog is a dog. A 12' 5wt isn't going to make a tired fish suddenly strong.

Salmo I agree that the 9140 seems like overkill for a lot of fish. In complete contrast to Ed's assessment I prefer the faster, if not the fastest, actioned two handers. That old 9140 flexes into the reel seat leaving you attached with a VERY short lever. And a rubber band to boot. Everything switches to your favor in playing the fish. All the while keeping a bungee to absorb the show.

The reason I prefer the faster rods, beyond casting them, is how the fish are perceived to your body. Flex them and the lever remains much, much longer. Once loaded there is no noodle feel- every head shake, quiver, and thrust is immediately transmitted to you. Not absorbed by a rubber band.

Up until a few years ago I was beyond skeptical. In fact I down right despised fast two handers. These fast rods were more suited to Marlin fishing then wimpy steelhead. Now that I have actually used them my mind is completely reversed. Just even try to move that stubborn fish,all of 8#'s, with a 15' 10wt fast actioned rod. Not pseudo fast like a Sage 10151, but T&T 1510 fast.

My main rods used now:

T&T 1208. For small to medium rivers where the fish range 5-12#'s. Casts of 25' to about 75'. Summer or winter work. This rod casts a DT 8 and is VERY comparable to a 9' #8.

T&T 1307. For medium to large rivers where casts of 50-90' are normal. Mostly summer use while fishing for steelhead ranging 5-10#'s. This rod also uses DT7 making it very comparable to a 9' #7.

T&T 1409. For larger rivers, summer and winter, where casts of 75' to 110' are expected. Also fishing for average fish of 8# and above. XLT 7/8.

T&T 1510. For large rivers, summer and winter, where casts of 90' to 125' are expected. And for fishing over steelhead that commonly run 12# or bigger. XLT 7/8 again.

Just to prove it to myself I played fish from just about all the length and action spectrums. To see if I was being certifiable even considering the Marlin sticks as 'sporting'. I'm still not so sure about the certifiable part...but I am completely happy with what I have found. And that was after spending years chasing these fish with the lightest two handers made, or homemade, trying to re-create the feel of the single handers. I now actually prefer to play these fish with the 1208 or 1307 compared to a single hander. Same goes for the 1409 on the bigger rivers and fish. The 15'ers however do require a strong fish to keep from being overgunned...but they are so much fun to cast and fish I can't help myself.

William

Inland

That's what makes this sport so fun

Everyone is different

Inland,

Like Brian said, we're different, and we're lucky that so many 2-handed models are now available. Just about any preference can be satisfied.

I seldom get passionate about "plastic" fly rods, but I thought I'd found Nirvana with a couple CND rods I've fallen for. I really love my CND Custom 7/8, but a week ago, rod number two blew apart in the tip section. The first one blew in the mid section on the first cast of the first day fishing it. The design has a superb action, balance, and feel to me, but the construction is either jinxed or flawed for them to be so lacking in durability. If I always have to pack a back up rod with me, I'm afraid my love affair with CND rods is gonna' be short lived. For the time being, when that rod isn't broken, it casts and fishes so well, and seems perfectly suited to my tastes and needs.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

"I really love my CND Custom 7/8, but a week ago, rod number two blew apart in the tip section. The first one blew in the mid section on the first cast of the first day fishing it. The design has a superb action, balance, and feel to me, but the construction is either jinxed or flawed for them to be so lacking in durability."

Wow, and to think I almost bought a CND have there been a lot of reported problems with them ?

FL

Only with the 1307....a lovely rod and a favorite of mine....but at times, it much prefers to be a 4-piecer then the standard issue 3.

When the 1307 came out I got one and I've been useing it for over 3 years now with no problem and alot Steelhead caught with it. This summer that rod dissappered on the GR for a week and it was returned when a friend went home, I was only there for 6 weeks.

Salmo

WOW, I didn't know that

The 1307 was the one I was very interested in buying and that went with great deal on a slightly used spey rod.

I will stick with the american made speys for now.

FL

Boy, this one flew under my 'radar.'

"Salmo I agree that the 9140 seems like overkill for a lot of fish. In complete contrast to Ed's assessment I prefer the faster, if not the fastest, actioned two handers. That old 9140 flexes into the reel seat leaving you attached with a VERY short lever. And a rubber band to boot. Everything switches to your favor in playing the fish. All the while keeping a bungee to absorb the show."

One of my fav. rods for sink tips and full sinking lines. But, as with any choice of rods .. what's your 'target fish?' Would you chase winter run steelhead with a 3wt? Probably not unless your into testing the manufactures war.

Would you chase summer steelhead with a 9wt? Over kill .. winter fish, another question.

So how do you 'adjust?' Tippet strength would be one way. In the fall we (Rogue) have a huge mix of Kings and summer runs. And you will hook both (illegal above Hog Creek below Grants Pass) .. so 6-8 pound leader .. unless you want your 2-hander handed back to you in an "extra" section or two.