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#1057530 - 09/15/21 10:57 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6937
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The old "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make hime drink"? I guess that must be the case because of all the questions/complaints that keep being made. But, we still have folks out there who don't understand Boldt......

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#1057535 - 09/15/21 02:33 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


I understand boldt, either put more hatchery fish in the system or don't let us (and by us I mean all commercial and recreational fishing, period) fish. The way the seasons on the Chehalis are structured it is a meaningless season when fish are already out of the area that you are allowed to fish in year after year. The only people catching fish are tribal or commercial. The way that the state works is that figures don't lie but liars figure. And where are the figures on how many hatchery fish were released in 2018 and 2019? The fact that the state isn't releasing hatchery fish the way they used to is the problem. If they can't do that then shut down everyone they are legally capable of shutting down. Spread the pain equally. And for those of you who used to work for the state and still think the state has our (and the long term survival of the wild fish) interests at heart go buy shorefront property at washaway beach, that even makes more sense then buying into the crap we are handed every year regardless of better projections. And how many years have we made escapement on the Chehalis for kings in the last 3 years?

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#1057536 - 09/15/21 03:02 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Well Bob one last time on numbers. Non treaty share Chin 550 Coho 5904 total available. Impacts off modeled seasons Bay Chin 51 Coho 278, Fresh water Chin 158 Coho 1274, Commercial Chin 12 Coho 459, Chehalis Tribe Chin 92 Coho 255.

Then you add that the Hump is separated for harvest from the Chehalis by WDFW only, not the tribes or Feds and Hump Coho are modeled at minus 1759 which means it does not make escapement and is really short.

Finally BC and AK will take as many Chehalis Chinook as cross the bar and non treaty impacts are relatively minor. 550 Chinook would last about a week with a take fishery. Coho maybe available but it is about limiting success. Your two and off the water is pure BS and you damn well know it. Just the last two weeks of Sept a keep fishery burned enough in harvest that we would loose Nov and Dec.

As to hatchery releases or escapement numbers you can look them up on WDFW's website. Pretty simple click here click there scroll around. Only takes a few minutes Bob.

Little edit: As to the Bay fishery anyone that fishes it is lucky. I say lucky because when WDFW implemented it the Deputy Director and Fish Program guaranteed the local community that only available fish that above the 101 bridge could not take would be taken. As we all know that did not last a minute once salt water Phil followed by Mr. Ron came along.

So we all suffer from broken promises and a long list of just plain crap. Staff did their best I think and Chehalis harvest staff less has than zero influence on WDFW's budget. Want to argue your case go drag Director Kelly out of his basement he has been hiding in for over a year. With Warren gone he has one less body running interference.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057537 - 09/15/21 03:57 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


I've tried unsuccessfully to find out if we have lost hatchery plants between 2018 and 2019. trying to navigate the wdfw website to find that info is frustrating to say the least, they won't even answer the phone. How long will the covid excuse keep them from having to deal with facing fisherfolk they are ignoring? Since it's so readily accessible to you just post the numbers. And did we make escapement 3 out of the last 5 years? If so we were told that's what it would take to keep chinook. I personally don't care about how long the season lasts, the same number of hatchery fish will be taken out of the equation 'cause the ratio of wild to hatchery will be the same. If that affects local business and guides who cares? Shut it down or produce more smolts. Excuses that the state won't fund more hatchery releases just proves my point, the state does NOT provide meaningful opportunity, just a dog and pony show. The tribes control the governor's office so regular folks can stand holding their dicks in their hands. I've watched you yell at these same folks for 5 or 10 years while they still held meetings "cause you thought they had their heads up their asses. What's changed? ( Besides less opportunity). They can always pick a "model" to prove their point, Figures don't lie but liars figure.

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#1057541 - 09/15/21 07:43 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
If I remember correctly we have made escapement 3 out of five. That is the good news the bad is that AK and BC harvested nearly all the harvestable fish. ( about as many as will cross the bar ) This left 1099 terminal NT & QIN on the Chehalis to be divided. Not enough Chinook for a keep fishery and recs use the hooking mortalities to allow fishing for the other species.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057544 - 09/16/21 06:48 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
bobrr
Unregistered


So 3 out of 5 is just a dog and pony show, keep us hoping for something we'll never get while wild fish both coho and chinook die in nets and we don't get a real season. And some people wonder why I'm pissed off.

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#1057545 - 09/16/21 07:45 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6937
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
At the present time, wild fish actually matter because if the runs get too small ESA is invoked and it gets ugly (or uglier, if you prefer). To have the fisheries you seem to want, the wild fish must simply be written off. That is not currently legal to do, but have at it convincing Congress to change the law.

Rivrguy is spot on in that fisheries up north take much of the harvest. Plus, and this still seems too be ignored, the catch of GH fish in all the WA coastal fisheries (and even PS if tags show they wander in) count against the share.

Finally, in most cases the rec downside of rec fisheries is that they don't take a lot of fish in a short time. As Smalma has noted often, nets (and traps) are the only way to catch a lot of fish in a short amount of time.

If we went to a management scheme where there were no marine mixed stock fisheries and escapement goals can be as high as 2 kg/sq m (or even a little higher) then you could have decent bay and river fisheries but then absolute "sharing" would likely be out of whack.

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#1057546 - 09/16/21 07:45 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
https://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/rfc/

The rain is still coming or so the forecast says it is. Right now it looks like the real volume will be on the Olympics side but look at the Satsop and that is a real rise. You can do the forecast precip but the one that catches my eyes is Haywire Ridge ( near the West Fork Satsop ) with a total 5.49 over 3 days but 2.8 inches Friday. Everything will drop back to near average flows in a couple of days but about the time the Olympic streams drop the upper Chehalis water will arrive. If fishing it looks to be about a 7 day not nice event on the mainstem Chehalis.

It has to get muddy fast but it will clear fast also so we wait but it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057547 - 09/16/21 07:57 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
On sharing the QIN ( tribes ) are entitled to half of the harvestable fish that enter Washington State waters. Charter, troll, rec just whatever counts against the NT share just as the tribal marine fisheries count against the tribal share. For years the Nation did not require the state comply but few years back insisted that sharing requirements be fully implemented.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057590 - 09/18/21 08:37 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Doesn't anyone sleep anymore? So what did I see yesterday as the storm came in. Leading up to the rain there was a movement but to what degree I am not sure. What I am sure of at high slack yesterday while talking to DW it was a airborne time with Coho doing the tail dance all over the river. This morning rather quite but the fish are moving as my early fish warning system ( commonly known as seals ) are at it big time. So what we know is yup the fish moved just as one would expect with rain. Now how large was the movement that is still up for grabs.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057599 - 09/19/21 07:59 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Get Bent Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 231
Loc: Vashon/Grayland
Ran up to a tidewater riffle the next drainage south and saw an impressive push of fish pulsating and charging for 3/4 hours as the afternoon tide dropped. Mainly mint bright silvers mixed the occasional king. So cool. Too bad they were too busy to bite.

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#1057614 - 09/21/21 06:18 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Get Bent]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Well the rain came in as expected and we got some mud but it has not been enough to mess up tidewater much just some color. Yup the fish are moving out of tidewater so it is slim pickings down low. I am told jack fishing has been excellent which is a plus.

Little edit: What we do have a lot of is a lot of debris coming down stream. Limbs, chunks, just about some of everything so be aware if running tide water as it is a bit zig zag thing to get up and down the river at times for a bit.


Edited by Rivrguy (09/21/21 06:50 AM)
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#1057634 - 09/22/21 08:25 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Several of us were wondering about the QIN schedule for next months fall season. Hump is posted on the nation website but not the Chehalis. So I e-mailed staff and asked if the information was available. This is the reply and folks you can ask questions of staff. The Grays Harbor team is very good at getting back to those who have questions.

From staff:
The QIN schedule for the Chehalis is not available at the moment. Mike was communicating with tribal staff regarding their fishery schedule in the Chehalis before he went on vacation. I am hoping once Mike returns at the end of this month I will be able to post the QIN schedule for the Chehalis.

In the meantime I have taken down last years schedule on the agency webpage and left the schedule table fields blank. I did leave a notice stating: “2021 Fall Fishery – No schedule available at this time”.

Curt Holt floated the Satsop River yesterday and reported some fall Chinook and coho in the river. Looks like fish that were staging in the lower Chehalis River were able to migrate further along on the river and tributaries thanks to last week’s rains.

Thank you for your inquiry and updates on salmon presence in the Chehalis.

Have a great week,

Kim Figlar-Barnes
WDFW – Fish Management
Grays Harbor Area F & W Biologist
Kim.Figlar-Barnes@dfw.wa.gov
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057645 - 09/22/21 12:51 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6937
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I just would like to note how much things have changed in 40 years. Back then, no (as in not any) front-line harvest manager could be gone for more than a day or two, and that early in the week, during salmon season in PS. That was July to December. Maybe GH was different, but now folks are gone for full weeks during the season with no backup. Should add it was the same when the Leg was in session. If you were part of the team that analyzed bills, testified, etc., you stayed put.

Times change.

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#1057647 - 09/22/21 03:09 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
steely slammer Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 1489

they can just say he's away cause he doesn't want to be bothered..
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Where Destroying Fishing in Washington..

mainly region 6

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#1057657 - 09/23/21 07:54 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5008
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
09/23/2021

In defense of Mike, he enjoys deer hunting as we all know there is a "time period" for this activity.

But that said, QIN netting schedule should have done long before this time, IMO.

Personal note on boat movement above South Montesano, on the recent rain system, yes it helped but now water level is back down and October could be costly as there was gravel movement this past winter. I'm aware of long time boaters, having to wait for incoming tide to get floated off a gravel bar.
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"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1057658 - 09/23/21 08:13 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6937
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I enjoyed deer hunting too, but part of the job job of management requires you be there. Don't like the conditions, find another job.

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#1057660 - 09/23/21 08:18 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
I think DW has it right. I know of a hatchery employee that each year hunts also and it leaves them a bit short handed. Now the other side of the coin is that if this was in the private sector your employer makes arrangements to cover the gap and insure continuity. I used to bunch up my vacation and hit the road for 5 weeks starting end of August. It was known so the company had someone to fill in.

This is not brain surgery and frankly the QIN should have provided the dates several months ago. Just because one works for WDFW your life should not stop because the QIN have not got their crap together.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057663 - 09/23/21 11:47 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
https://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/rfc/

Another storm this weekend and when it is all done we will settle in at average to a little above average flows. Also while out and about I looked at a couple of creeks and both had brackish colored water. That is a bit early to have happen!
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1057681 - 09/25/21 09:02 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
We cannot fish but in 5 days we will be able to do so and from what I have seen folks are ready to fish, that's the good news. Now the question is what should we expect? Starting tomorrow at Haywire Ridge ( near upper W. Fork Satsop ) it is over two inches with over 7 inches total over 5 days. The Satsop flow graph looks like an M with double peaks and the final peak the Oct. 3rd then drops like a rock. So one should expect less than favorable conditions on the Satsop but it will be changing rapidly every day.

The upper Chehalis is around 2 inches for the same 5 day time frame so flows will go up but nothing like the Olympics side, in fact will just get to average flows.

So all should pay attention to Olympics side of the Chehalis watershed because it has to get mud out of this thing. The Chehalis side takes time to reach tide water and it should arrive about the time the others clear and should not be nearly as muddy. Do the 240 precip to see the storms daily anticipated rainfall and flows.

https://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/rfc/
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