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#1060636 - 10/18/22 08:38 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Some comments that I received and can post up. Several more cannot or rather will not as...... colorful might describe them!


Hey, one thought, I was watching news this morning an find the best way to unveil these folks is to go Facebook or social. Gal in SanFran films with her phone every day druggies shooting up and other stuff the news just wont cover. You should start a page with a generic name and start posting, then others can know facts and repost broadly if a point is being ignored. Maybe post those old videos ect. People need to know the history, and you are the historian! Or do you have a incognito facebook or twitter account???


Then again, I just want to walk the mossy trees and step into a fog covered river in the morning. Ah, yesterday.


I agree with the frustrations. What can we do about it?


Thanks for working on this. It is important to keep a long perspective on these management issues. In other words keep up the pressure and do not despair.


GH folks should be calling and emailing WDFD….protest signs with homeless carboard. They have already pushed it with two 4 day settings, now a 5 day, minor pause then NT again. Thought that was illegal.

One of the worst bank fishing ever.


Let us folks know how to call or write.


It sucks. They suck. Compliance with law and policy has not a priority at least since the Reign of Atkins, if not earlier. Appears to be getting worse. And worse is such a low bar that it is on the ground.


what and where is that GH policy on consecutive days? Hope you get answers soon. Combine this with reason for ER closures and folks should be hot.
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060637 - 10/18/22 11:06 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
darth baiter Online   content
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
So this is the text of the policy that was not followed by the State schedule ?:


"WDFW-managed commercial gillnet fisheries in a fishing area or aggregate area (i.e., Area 2A/2B/2D; or Area 2C) shall be scheduled, if possible, so that in any given calendar week there are a minimum of three consecutive days when no treaty or state-managed commercial fisheries occur. If the treaty fishery occurs 4 or more days in a calendar week, no WDFW-managed commercial fishery shall occur in the remaining days of the week."

So for this year, because the Treaty had 4 days scheduled (Oct 16-19) during the week of Oct 16-22, there shouldn't have been any NI net days scheduled. So for this week, not only was there not a minimum of three consecutive days with no treaty or non treaty fishing, there was also a 4 day tribal schedule that would preclude any non treaty net.

Have I got this correct?

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#1060638 - 10/18/22 11:38 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: darth baiter]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
The minute a net hits the water that 24 hour calendar day counts. So QIN go on Sunday noon and pull Wednesday noon it is 4 days by the calendar week. The QIN fish 24 hour sets which is different. The GHP says when possible which applies if say the QIN did Sunday to Thursday which takes 5 days out but the GHP DOES NOT limit QIN but only the non treaty fishery. WDFW simply redefined the verbiage to fit their needs of cramming a NT Commercial in an extra day. The key words here are calendar week which was put in just for that purpose to keep staff from playing games.

It would sure be interesting to see how staff presented this to the Director. I imagine judging by the fact they hid this innovative interpretation of the GHP in plain site utilizing the ZOOM dog and pony show omission facts and intent likely was not all that great of concern.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060639 - 10/18/22 12:14 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
darth baiter Online   content
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 170
Loc: United States
....so because there were 4 treaty days in the week, there shouldn't have been any NI days. Right?

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#1060640 - 10/18/22 12:18 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: darth baiter]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
yes

they just interpreted the intent of the words in a manner not intended to enable more net time.
_________________________
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#1060641 - 10/18/22 12:35 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6952
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Is there something in the plan that mandates separate days? Seems they could go on the same days. And, you could always give the QIN a head start.

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#1060644 - 10/18/22 02:51 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Yes they could and are. In fact they have been using the last half of a day when QIN pull this year.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060647 - 10/19/22 09:10 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1458
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
To clear up the closure thing. It is about Chinook numbers I was told not Coho. Couple the movement and both tribal and commercial catches Coho are either at numbers forecasted or possibly greater. Their catches were smaller than projected due to the MOB movement. The QIN came in on the very backside of the movement as they were up already be it not far just lower end the tribs and from Fuller to South Monte. ( think rain movement minus rain) Always in the past as soon a the Chum move they bring Coho right with them I see no reason to doubt that this will happen as usual.


i heard it was about the worry of over harvesting.(per news letter from dfw) (recs cant harvest Chinook, so it cant be that, right?) So why is the lower river still open. And the nets are in for 4 days?

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#1060648 - 10/19/22 09:51 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3248
It's safe to say the lower river is still open to recs SO THAT there is justification for the nets to go in 4 days. If we can't fish, they can't fish thing. Nobody gillnets the tribs, so it was all too easy to put the entire conservation burden on the upriver crowd and shut us down. Conveniently, closing the tributaries "frees up" more quota for take in the lower river.

The purpose WDFW cited in their release was to ensure what few fish were in the tribs had the opportunity to spawn. Since that release was put out, we have learned the species of concern is, as always and ironically enough, Chinook. Right or wrong, each of the tribs is allocated some number of catch and release impacts on Chinook, and if the tribs are closed, those impacts can be shifted to the lower river fisheries (particularly gillnets). WDFW Region 6 staff never miss an opportunity to put gillnets in the Chehalis, so here we are....

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#1060649 - 10/19/22 10:02 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3248
It would be interesting (but likely sickening as well) to see what the harvest allocations for the major tributaries were when the seasons were planned. Combined, one would have to think it's at least equal to the number allocated to lower river fisheries. That's a lot of fish, which translates to a lot of opportunity ($).

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#1060650 - 10/19/22 10:12 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6952
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Got to remember that allocation covers all WA fisheries. If you want to have tributary fisheries don't go catching them in the ocean.

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#1060652 - 10/19/22 10:21 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 310
Loc: Elma, WA
That’s what I was thinking. If they shut the tidewater fisheries down, no way they could justify a commercial harvest (although the state could justify anything and claim their “science” backs up their stupid decision)

So it’s Wednesday…a lot of people have been at work for WDFW since Monday. Do they not have access to weather forecasts, river forecasts or even the morning weather on the radio on the way to work? They know the rivers will have PLENTY of water to get fish up the tributaries right? Are they so inept that they are really going to announce an opening like On Sunday for Monday? They could easily put out a release stating that the tribs will open on ___________ (should be Friday/Saturday)

It’ll never cease to amaze me, the amount of idiots that work for this useless department. They (and voters) keep appointing the same people expecting different results. We’ve tried and failed at same policy and programs for the last 30 Years? Things have gotten worse.

Idaho, Oregon and BC (even Alaska) have dramatically changed their policy the last couple years. We just keep shutting down programs that work and trying to save every wild fish. It’s over for 90% of rivers.

Region 6 might be the worst group out of them all…

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#1060653 - 10/19/22 11:22 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1458
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
It's safe to say the lower river is still open to recs SO THAT there is justification for the nets to go in 4 days. If we can't fish, they can't fish thing. Nobody gillnets the tribs, so it was all too easy to put the entire conservation burden on the upriver crowd and shut us down. Conveniently, closing the tributaries "frees up" more quota for take in the lower river.

The purpose WDFW cited in their release was to ensure what few fish were in the tribs had the opportunity to spawn. Since that release was put out, we have learned the species of concern is, as always and ironically enough, Chinook. Right or wrong, each of the tribs is allocated some number of catch and release impacts on Chinook, and if the tribs are closed, those impacts can be shifted to the lower river fisheries (particularly gillnets). WDFW Region 6 staff never miss an opportunity to put gillnets in the Chehalis, so here we are....
bingo, bango. I dont think that dfw has a clue how many Chinook are still in tidewater being encountered. The creel fellas dont get accurate info from everybody.

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#1060654 - 10/19/22 11:42 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
steely slammer Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 1489
look the bottom line here is $$$ the commercials have it and wdfw will roll over to it!!
_________________________
Where Destroying Fishing in Washington..

mainly region 6

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#1060655 - 10/19/22 11:50 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: SpoonFed]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Look down to the high lighted portion and pay attention to the words if possible. When possible was understood to not to include the Chehalis Tribe fisheries. This is in the GHMP addressing QIN fisheries days at time making three net free days impossible NOT about jamming in NT days. Whoever did the right up for Mr Cunningham took some rather large liberties with the facts.

October 1 9, 2022
Dave Hamilton
Hamilton.dave@comcast.net
Dear Mr. Hamilton :

Thank you for your correspondence. In your letter, you made some assertions regarding fisheries
that I would like to address.
Negotiations for the commercial fishery openings in Grays Harbor occurred during the 2022

North of Falcon process and have remained unchanged since they were submitted with the CR -
102 filing on May 17, 2022 and finalized by the signing and filing of the CR -103 on June 29,
2022. Planning Model D, which includes the same planned commercial fisheries, was sent both
to the distribution list of advisers and the general Grays Harbor distribution list on Friday April
15, 2022, in preparati on for the final GH/WB Post North of Falcon salmon fishery discussion
held on April 19, 2022.
During North of Falcon, District 17 Fish Biologist Mike Scharpf and Director Susewind
compromised on a season structure with the co -managers that follows the intent of the Grays
Harbor Salmon Management Policy by enhancing the overall economic well -being and stability
of Grays Harbor fisheries, providing fair distribution of opportunity across all sectors, and
minimize gear and other fishery conflicts. The resulting schedule provides at least three
consecutive days without nets in the water each week there are non -treaty commercial days
scheduled. During statistical week 43, those consecutive days occur Friday through Sunday.
Each of the other weeks in which non- treaty commercial fisheries are scheduled, those days
without nets occur Thursday through Saturday.
The Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy provides guidance for commercial fisheries
and under Guiding Principle 8 states that we shall schedule a mi nimum of 3 consecutive days in
a given calendar week if possible : “Recreational and WFDW- managed commercial fisheries
shall be structured (e.g., schedule, location, gear) to minimize gear and other fishery conflicts.
WDFW- managed commercial gillnet fisheries in a fishing area or aggregate area (i.e., Area
2A/2B/2D; or Area 2C) shall be scheduled, if possible, so that in any given calendar week there
are a minimum of three consecutive days when no treaty or state -managed commercial fisheries
occur. If the tr eaty fishery occurs 4 or more days in a calendar week, no WDFW -managed
commercial fishery shall occur in the remaining days of the week.”
Negotiations this year did
not make 3 days within a given calendar week possible, and the policy was not violated. &#8203;
Dave Hamilton
October 19, 2022
Page 2
Lastly, you took issue with the implementation and justification of closures to Freshwater Areas
in the Grays Harbor basin. I want to re -iterate that fisheries closures are not something the
Department or the Directo r take lightly or without careful consideration of a myriad of factors.
We are hopeful that these closures will be short lived and a change in weather will allow for a re -
opening of these opportunities soon.
Sincerely,
Kelly Cunningham
Fish Program D irector
_________________________
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#1060656 - 10/19/22 12:09 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

One more thing, the Chum are headed in and it appears they have numbers. This was at Aberdeen so it will take a bit for them and the Coho to get upstream in numbers with no rain and nets in. Oh yeah and the Coho will be right with them.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060657 - 10/19/22 12:31 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1458
No rain, nets in. But, but, shut er down cause the bankies might bonk a couple fish that they paid for. This is almost as amusing as a green warden telling me i couldn't fish a spinner in anti snagging water couple weeks back.

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#1060658 - 10/19/22 12:35 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1458
The coho will be with the chum. In a Gilnet or guide boat if we dont get enough agua this weekend.

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#1060659 - 10/19/22 12:44 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6952
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It's interesting ate a FORECAST of rain and increased flows wants the rivers opened. But, a FORECAST of fish numbers (not an actual update) is too unknown to act?

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#1060660 - 10/19/22 02:36 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4147
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Coho no they are OK with many up the Satsop. Chinook is another story as QIN catch showed under performing but then no one knows how many Chinook were in the MOB movement. Chinook are an unknown at the moment. Always keep in mind the QIN & WDFW count spawners differently so Chehalis Chinook escapement goal is 9753 . WDFW has estimated 2022 Chinook escapement at 8801 & QIN method say 10331 which is 1530 difference. Using WDFW numbers it says we are in trouble but QIN numbers say not.

So with WDFW logic slam the door on trib fishing ( mostly ) and the REC inland is required to conserve but nobody else is. Above Fuller Hill the water temps & flows says the closure is the correct move. The lower tribs not so much and it is like Elmer Fud killing a fly with a 10 gauge shotgun in your house. Your gonna get the fly but the collateral damage is substantial. Got this from another when I asked what he meant by Elmer Fudd bios.

Staff does not work Sat & Sun so unless they lift the closure at the start of rain, which is supposed to be Friday, nothing happens to next Monday.
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