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#985699 - 02/18/18 07:51 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: eyeFISH]
Soft bite Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 147
Loc: Central Park
The Feb 8-9 commission meeting audio is now up. For those interested in Willapa, the following link includes a panel presentation after the WDFW presentation. It had representatives from recreational fishing, commercial fishing and conservation. It included smart, passionate, and knowledgeable people that gave a great overview of the Willapa policy. The panel discussion and following public input is well worth the time to listen.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/02/audio_feb0818.html

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#985706 - 02/18/18 10:08 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
Everyone should listen carefully to Commissioner Carpenters scathing comments to staff at roughly 49:30
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985707 - 02/18/18 10:22 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
I just want to go back and reflect on the effort that was brought forward by the Commission at the time on this Policy.

There were DOZENS of meetings (more than that) HUNDREDS of hours devoted to this, an UNTOLD amount of public comment and staff time put into this...


And now I sit here and I kind of get the sense that YOU want US to come down and manage the DAMN fishery!

That's the feeling I get.

You KNOW what the Policy says, we're sitting up here and thinking we could probably make some adjustments and tweek it....

BUT.... when I was gainfully employed and had a bunch of employees, the one thing I didn't want them to do was come to me and always give me reasons why things DON'T get done... CAN'T get done.


Come to me with solutions on how to make things work!


So I'll shut up now, but that's the feeling I get, and it bothers me a GREAT deal.


<< APPLAUSE >>

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#985709 - 02/18/18 10:57 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7211
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
You ask for "advice" when you you don't want to follow directions.

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#985712 - 02/18/18 11:06 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
I regards to shifting impacts from rec to commercial....

RW weasel word of the day "flexibility"

"We all believe we have the FLEXIBILITY to do what I just said, but we don't want to push if that's NOT the intent of the Commission"
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985714 - 02/18/18 12:00 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Carcassman]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 193
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
By 2020 the NORs will be effectively "gone". Can't find them. So, there can be fishing on the HORs. Since the situation being created will be "impossible" to manage per the plan, we just toss the plan and fish.



I am having a little difficulty with your time line here. Do you mean that after decades of fishing in WB at hatchery management levels that included net fisheries starting late July which did not extirpate natural, production that in 3 years under the WP, they will be gone? And gone in the same year that the Willapa will be getting back the initial returns of the program cutbacks? If anything, wouldn't it be the offspring of the reduced production of hatchery fish that spawned naturally; so 2023 onward maybe?

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#985715 - 02/18/18 01:52 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
This will be the last year of adult returns of Willapa River origin hatchery fish from the old (pre-policy) smolt releases.

2019 will be the first year that the entire Willapa-origin cohort will be the progeny from the reduced production and smolt releases from Forks Creek.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985716 - 02/18/18 02:14 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7211
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The Chinook will continue to be overfished in order to net the last hatchery fish. The overfishing will be from the outside wall the way in was open productivity is going sideways. Few spawners, mostly with strong ties to the hatchery. The need to aggressively net the coho and chum will further take whatever outlier Chinook are out there.

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#985717 - 02/18/18 02:15 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2838
Loc: Marysville
eyefish -

I thought that first year of the new Willapa hatchery release levels was in 2016.

Curt

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#985722 - 02/18/18 03:41 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Geoduck Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 437
RW needs to be fired.

WB chinook management has been a fiasco for over a decades and its all been on RWs watch whether as Region 6 director, or as a leader in olympia.

This should have been the simplest chinook fishery to manage in the entire state and over the course of his career he's screwed it up so bad nobody will be fishing in a few years, there will be no hatchery operations for chinook and a feral hatchery stock will be ESA listed and eventually dwindle to nothing.

How you take a fully integrated chinook hatchery/wild stock and end up with what we have today is beyond me.

WDFW can't get out of its own way in WB.

The idea that WB is a complex management problem for chinook is nonsense. Its simple compared to the rest of the basins in the state. The policy is simple. The plan is simple (and wrong). The politics and circumvention of the policy are the only thing that is really complex.
_________________________
Dig Deep!

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#985723 - 02/18/18 04:15 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Smalma]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
Originally Posted By: Smalma
eyefish -

I thought that first year of the new Willapa hatchery release levels was in 2016.

Curt


Having a little trouble corroborating that, Curt.

Policy passed in June of 2015... about the time 3.2 million sub yearlings from a 3.6 million 2014 egg take were scheduled for release.

My guess is they went out to sea.

...

Which means the 2016 release should have been the first year of the reduced Forks Creek production.

BUT....

The final 2015 future brood document lists another egg take of 3.6 million in 2015 to produce 3.2 million smolts for release in 2016.

How does one ascertain if those smolts actually went out? It's not on the hatchery website.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985724 - 02/18/18 04:17 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
What I said in my original post is the line we've been given by staff at all the advisory and planning meetings to date. Now I don't know what to believe ???
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985725 - 02/18/18 04:20 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Geoduck]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12750
Originally Posted By: Geoduck
RW needs to be fired.



Pretty "interesting" that he has risen up the ranks to become the TOP fish manager in the state.

Don't be too surprised if he becomes the new Director of the whole shootin' match!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#985726 - 02/18/18 04:22 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Smalma]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 193
Loc: United States
Correct Curt. First year of reductions at Forks Creek was 2015 brood. The first year where age 3 adults returns are impacted is 2018. So the first year where all ages classes 3-5 are fully impacted by these reductions is 2020. Consequently, the adult progeny of the 2018 spawners will first be returning in 2021, achieving full reduction of all age reductions in 2023.

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#985727 - 02/18/18 09:12 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3017
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
I have this horror movie vision of a giant walking, talking waffle......
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#985728 - 02/18/18 09:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5032
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...

The following is the "Willapa Policy", it was signed June 13, 2015

https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c3622.pdf



The following is the "Grays Harbor Policy", it was signed March 1, 2014


https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c3621.html
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#985768 - 02/19/18 07:26 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6832
Loc: zipper
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: Geoduck
RW needs to be fired.



Pretty "interesting" that he has risen up the ranks to become the TOP fish manager in the state.

Don't be too surprised if he becomes the new Director of the whole shootin' match!


Kee-rist, that just proves it's not what you know it's how long you've been there. It will be a sad fukin day if that happens.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#985781 - 02/20/18 05:55 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
You boys down on the coast have arrived at the nexus. The actions of WDFW Fisheries Management over the past 3-4 years re: WB speak for themselves, and in a very clear and concise manner.

The Vice Chair of the Commission has accurately sized things up, and can move forward and act ONLY with an overwhelming outcry of public support.

Get organized, focused, and even more vocal. Fight hard to overcome the foreboding politics...and do it because it's the right thing to do.

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#985785 - 02/20/18 06:51 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Great Bender]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4283
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
My look at the 2020 thing was driven by looking at GH Chinook the 4 & 5 year age groups perform about the same proportionally. The 3 and 6 year age group are in small numbers but the 3 year number can move up or down in any given year substantially. I do not have a Willapa run reconstruction but it really does not matter much. In 2019 the Willapa River will have 10% of the prior hatchery releases but the 5 year class will be present at the full release in prior years resulting in a much larger number of HOS. Bit of a train wreck to manage I imagine. It is hard to stare into a crystal ball and be accurate but fish math does let one look at probable outcomes and the scenarios that they to dictate harvest.

In 2020 the Willapa River be a stand alone population with a hatchery release of 300 K and change. Harvest will have to be dramatically reduced in the North end of the bay. The only variable is HOW the much much smaller allowed harvest is structured.


Edited by Rivrguy (02/20/18 06:57 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#985794 - 02/20/18 09:06 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Geoduck]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Geoduck
RW needs to be fired.

WB chinook management has been a fiasco for over a decades and its all been on RWs watch whether as Region 6 director, or as a leader in olympia.

This should have been the simplest chinook fishery to manage in the entire state and over the course of his career he's screwed it up so bad nobody will be fishing in a few years, there will be no hatchery operations for chinook and a feral hatchery stock will be ESA listed and eventually dwindle to nothing.

How you take a fully integrated chinook hatchery/wild stock and end up with what we have today is beyond me.

WDFW can't get out of its own way in WB.

The idea that WB is a complex management problem for chinook is nonsense. Its simple compared to the rest of the basins in the state. The policy is simple. The plan is simple (and wrong). The politics and circumvention of the policy are the only thing that is really complex.


Great Bender has it right. Things will continue down the Sh%$ hole as long as the same "good ol boy" is managing the show. RW has had his fingers in every crap pie that the Department has baked!

The removal of Unsworth was like cutting the tail off the snake. Who was the driving force behind Unsworth's dismal performance? I can tell you, RW and Grossmann hold just as much responsibility for the mess as anyone, perhaps more!

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