#1061907 - 05/20/23 04:49 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
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It sounds like what you're saying is they have them on both coasts.
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Catch & Release Is Not A Crime
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#1061909 - 05/20/23 09:19 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 196
Loc: Stanwood WA
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They were brought down as sport fish. Mostly WA stocks. Apparently both stream and ocean type. They actually rear in the SW Atlantic. Go around Cape Horn. Interestingly the population is most age 2 and 3 and 4 with few 5s. Makes me wonder if our current fisheries are actually eliminating the older age classes. These runs just started up in the 80s I think.
They know the at-sea routes. One wonders what they eat out in the ocean and whose lunch they are taking. Maybe whale food as the whale numbers are way down. Bunch of fascinating talks and I will be providing them some more information and contacts here. Been following that area for more than a few years myself! Incredible fish returning to that area these days! Simple Google search will reveal the true story tonight! WA stocks for sure and even Cowlitz stock too and the Cowlitz Springer stock are doing incredibly well ;-) Sacramento fish have also contributed down there too Don't look or search for "Austral King Camp" as you might shed a tear for what could be again.... Proves a point of no habitat degradation, dams and population expansion are key points into restoring a healthy population of healthy return of Chinooks! I missed the Kamchatka trip years ago but won't miss a trip down there for sure! Clock is ticking for this old guy!!
Edited by OLD FB (05/20/23 09:28 PM)
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#1061911 - 05/21/23 08:29 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/15/21
Posts: 313
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Almost as successful an introduction as the Great Lakes have been.
Kings, Coho,Steelhead, Brown trout.
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#1061912 - 05/21/23 08:51 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1384
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Some videos out there of Clancy Holt w/Gary Loomis down at the Old Yankee lodge trying to dial in trolling for them. A more recent one is out w/ Cody Herman down there in an estuary struggling to get bites. I haven’t seen the final series of those videos. Some 30-50 lbers around. Also wonder what they eat and how long before the commercials take over.
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1061913 - 05/21/23 10:13 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 328
Loc: snohomish, wa
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I believe brown trout were stocked down there first and rainbows. And its trophy fishery. Wonder if the salmon have had an impact on the trout population ?
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Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
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#1061914 - 05/21/23 10:25 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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The session was about impacts and history. Chinook, rainbow, and browns are well established as well as brookies. There are some steelhead; some which appear to have spawned up to 8 times. Amazing what happens when you don't kill them early. Coho are establishing in smaller streams. Atlantics which are primarily an aquaculture fish have not been very successful at establishing populations except for some residents.
I think, based on what I saw, that the trout are primarily in different reaches and maybe different streams. For example, trout in streams tributary to the Amazon, have nothing to worry about. But, they are looking at impacts.
They are concerned about impacts to native fauna as these are an invasive species. But, they do realize that the invaders are bringing in money and subsistence. Complex problem but it is truly nice to see that Chinook have a chance to be wild and abundant somewhere in the world.
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#1061916 - 05/22/23 10:05 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/15/21
Posts: 313
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“it is truly nice to see that Chinook have a chance to be wild and abundant somewhere in the world.”
It may be nice, but can they truly be “Wild” if they are all from ”Hatchery Stockings” in the end ?
Not that I’m against hatchery fish. I just wished our regional salmon hatchery management could have found a way to have it work here to the benefit of all here...
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#1061919 - 05/22/23 02:20 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12767
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One of the early tasks in my career was to help define some terms for the Agency. Hatchery fish were born and raised for some time in a hatchery. Wild fish were born and raised in the wild. Native fish were wild fish without input of hatchery fish. Needed to get those three straight within the staff. Been trying to explain the fourth grade level 2 x 2 matrix for over two decades now. Closed minds continue to reject it IN DROVES. It ain't rocket science... it's either wild or hatchery on one axis. It's either native or NON-native on the other.
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#1061921 - 05/23/23 11:17 AM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 02/15/21
Posts: 313
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Ahh yes, the decades old “Native fish”vs, the “Wild fish” vs hatchery fish word game that took the fish managers, activists, and politicians over a decade to adopt and promote here in Wa. As I recall the hatchery fish mixing with non hatchery fish in the wild waters vs non wild waters and straying were the tuff things to come to grips with while finalizing the “Correct” naming of non hatchery fish in the systems.
There were a few naming missteps, and a few iterations before they started teaching the folks within the fisheries management teams the new “correct” naming of the fish they managed.
Of course the folks on the beaches and boats fishing for these now nameless fish watched it all happen for years, no wonder we can’t see the lite of the 2 x 2 fish definitions matrix. Reminded me of the Global Warming words games. That started in the 70s with Global cooling, then Global warming to to now climate change...
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#1061923 - 05/23/23 12:15 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4407
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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In the 70s when I became a bit of an environmentalist it was fear of a second little ice age and the Atlantic Escalator stopping. Oh and the cry was zero population growth. Thing is climate change is a valid description as long as one knows the climate is always changing and never the same in planet time not human. Moon, earths orbit and axis tilt, and volcanoes shape our weather. If one can live 10k years in the future the Sahara will bloom and upper Africa rivers now dry will run again. All about earth's orbit and axis tilt. It did not gather much attention but just a bit back in 2022 a under sea volcano went off and it was in the top ten in human times but we lucked out as it was under water. https://www.science.org/content/article/massive-undersea-eruption-filled-atmosphere-water
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#1061924 - 05/23/23 01:21 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Lord of the Chums
Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6829
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those fish came from the Kalama and Cowlitz springer runs, the largest caught down there in Chile was reported to be 72 pounds..
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#1061925 - 05/23/23 06:57 PM
Re: Hope for wild Chinook
[Re: Carcassman]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
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Chinook in the Patagonia region have a much more diverse genetic ancestry than just "Kalama and Cowlitz springer runs". This 2017 report states that "Patagonian Chinook clearly had a diverse and heterogeneous ancestry". It does state though that West Cascades springs (ie Cowlitz) contributed substantially to the populations in the southern river basins. It is a hodgepodge of genotypes showing up besides Cowlitz springs that included Willamette springs, West Cascade falls (Bonneville, Cowlitz) and of course Soos Creek (Green/Duwamish). It was mostly Washington and Oregon stocks. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14465-y
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