The springer discussion is great and brings up legit questions both scientific and political.
But with the current co-management we can't even get one day in August in a terminal area with 2700 hatchery fish available.
Remind me why we can't retain a hatchery chinook in A11 now?

I don't know the details but remember that the total catch is shared. Just because there is an escapement goal and the current numbers of fish in the bay are above that does not mean that your side has harvest left. When I was involved in developing the in-season numbers it was not uncommon for there to be a few thousand harvestable fish (mostly Chinook) and all were on the Tribal side because the cowboys had caught them in the marine mixed stock fisheries that include Blackmouth.

It seems to need constant repetition that the sharing is not in each fishery and location but in the total harvest in WA.

Wow, we even got creative hatchery managers with our license , enhancement, and tax monies spent. Crossing coho and kings, perch cleaning coho, and kings that commit suicide on hardware (like/from) coho. Sounds like fun.

No wonder we can’t fish in MA11.

The rec "Harvest Quota" for A11 in the July/August chinook fishery was 3379 of which 820 were deemed to be caught. Leaving a couple thousand foregone opportunity fish. Reason for closure was sub legal encounters. Ok I got that part.
New guidelines now for September 1 (Can't find them). Why not allow hatchery chinook to be taken? There are not many, but there are some.
Minter already has 1400 surplus. Last year, same week 50.

Silver, I think the problem is agreements on quotas (harvest quotas, sublegal quotas and wild encounters) and seasons for the different areas are signed and sealed between WDFW and the tribes at the North of Falcon meetings before the the season and WDFW is held to these agreements. We are stuck with them. It is a sad situation for the Puget Sound sport angler. I also think that because WDFW data determined that the sublegal quota was reached in June-July summer season no more chinook can be harvested. Also some sublegal chinook (and adult chinook) will be caught in the Sept-Oct coho/pink sport fishery.

This is going to be a reoccurring event every summer from now on. I say keep it closed early so as not to encounter sub legals before the adults arrive. That may include missing out on the springers, but it's better than letting all the adult hatchery fish skate by with 0 effort on them. Having seasons on resident 3# coho is a waste of time anyway.

Interesting comment about wasting time on 3# coho. I am pretty sure that there are quite a few folks who target the smaller feeding coho along with Searun Cutthroat.

That does become a real problem for managers; how do you provide fisheries for all persuasions of anglers? I am sure Rivrguy can chime in on how the desire for marine fisheries corks the inland guys; the folks who have to preserve the land to grow the fish. The boat/walk and wade conflict. And so on. Not an easy task.

Not knowing on how AK & BC impact PS returns it is almost everywhere that closer to terminal the greater prior harvest limits those fisheries. Ocean does not make its take exstend season then opps run size looks not to be there shut down the river fisheries. Other side of the coin is rivers get crowded fast! In the 90's the agency envisioned GH & Willapa bays being where the fishing growth would be but they managed to screw that up Willapa with the sorry ass policy and moving hatchery production to the South end of the bay. In GH they split the Hump and Chehalis then decided to manage the Hump for a wild Coho run that was mostly podigy of hatchery straying. This resulted in production reductions and the loss of B ( in front of Westport ) for fishing.

Thing is for WDFW once they start down a road they find it difficult to adjust to changing needs other than restrict or end fisheries. It is even worse in PS because these fisheries are intercept mixed stock fisheries. Key word here is mixed stock! In the 90's the Deputy Director once said when locals objected to GH and Willapa becoming a "Tillamook North" that " we are going to loose Puget Sound and we will need someplace for those people to go". That is happening I think but what I doubt is his crystal ball could have seen just how bad those that came after him could screw up GH & Willapa!

Something to add into the thought process is the fisheries that WDG/WDF created. Lowland lakes trout are created fisheries, designed to sell licenses. The delayed release programs intended to produce year-around coho and black mouth fisheries were, if not created, were major expansions on wild fisheries.

I suspect that back in the 50s salmon fishing was primarily prosecuted at maturing fish in bays and rivers. Some marine fisheries but still targeting the maturing fish.

CM -
The historical information that I can find shows that, at less the period during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s Puget Sound salmon seasons were year-round with the bulk of the effort and resulting catches directed towards what was commonly referred to as "salmon trout"; that is resident Chinook (blackmouth), resident coho and during odd years resident pinks. While there certainly seasonal fisheries catching maturing adults for much of the year as the term "salmon trout" indicates PS salmon fishing was a glorified trout fishery. I can well remember our salmon catches dominated by 12 to 20 inch salmon - trout fishing.

While the above is reflects angler interest and management intent of the period it does not mean that should be the goal today. In fact I would argue we can do better!

Curt

Of course you could retain an adult in MA11 --- you just can't boat fish in MA11.

The entire issue of sub-legal encounters needs to be put under serious review: is it needed and if so is it applied equitably? And once applied it is implemented according to the pre-established quotas?

Frankly, the explanation for adjusting the sub-legal encounters in MA 10
to allow reopening for Chinook as well as other salmonids didn't and still doesn't pass the whiff test.

The Senate's Senate Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks Committee should hold a hearing and get answers.

Pink salmon daily limit increased in Marine Area 11 (Tacoma/Vashon Island)

Action: Changes salmon retention to include two (2) additional pink salmon.
Species affected: Salmon.
Location: Marine Area 11 (Tacoma/Vashon).

Effective Dates: Immediately, through Sept. 30, 2023
Specific Locations and Rules:
• Marine Area 11, except year-round piers listed below: Salmon daily limit is two (2) plus two (2) additional pink salmon. No minimum size. Release Chinook and chum.
• Year-round piers - Des Moines Pier, Les Davis Pier, Point Defiance Boathouse Dock: Salmon daily limit is two (2) including no more than one (1) Chinook, plus two (2) additional pink salmon. Release chum.

Reason for action: The current run size estimate for Puget Sound pink salmon shows the return coming in above forecast, allowing for additional pink salmon retention in these Puget Sound Recreational Fisheries.
Additional Information: This rule change does not affect Marine Area 11 October salmon seasons. See the 2023-24 Washington Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet for details.

Waters surrounding Dash Point Pier are open to food fish and shellfish harvest under Marine Area 11 rules (including rules in this Fishing Rule Change).
Information contact: Fish Program, 360-902-2700

Wow, now I can sleep better.