Our system of Government in this state does not represent the interests of the people... The fish/wildlife management does not represent the people... Maybe its time to stop paying attention to the policy administration of the State because its counter intuitive to the health and welfare of the citizens of Washington State...

Not really going to become a poacher but its probably a good idea... I think the people have the right to forage for food,, to gather food and the state cannot deny that right because the state cannot deny you food and cannot dictate which food you can or cannot gather and consume from the environment... I do not think that the claim of ownership of natural resources supercede's peoples right to forage for food in public places... Subsistence is a natural right not a privilege that can be dictated where recreation is indeed defined as a privilege and can be legally administrated via rules...

Interesting suggestion. In my former career in F&W enforcement, I encountered many poachers. Some were serious, some just dumb, some just tried to take advantage of a particular opportunity. However, one poacher type that I knew had a totally different perspective. He was basically a bum, who drove an old beat up small car and fished where ever he pleased. Truly where and when he pleased. Disregarded all regulations, especially closed season. He fished a lot in the south sound and south Olympics. Steelheading in the Nisqually was particularly good for him - he had it all to himself. He sold a few fish to keep him in gas money and lived with a woman who worked. The few times he was caught (only once by me) he went to court and plead guilty and received community service instead of a fine since he had no funds. He told me that if he ever got sent to jail he would just do the time. No guilt, no ethics, and he fished more than any of us.

Manufactured scarcity is a failure of management we need to go back to the only management tool that is actually known to work... "Subsistence"

Currently the largest user group gets the least opportunity because their participation is legally viewed as a privilege where other groups participation is viewed as an entitlement...


Everyone should get the same opportunity to forage for food,, gather food that is naturally produced under the rule of abundance...

The governments only emphasis should be to support natural abundance or supplemented abundance for equal opportunity of participation...

Sale for profit/export is not sustainable...

Salmon/steelhead are a regional resource where historically their abundance was directly related to the health and welfare of the land and peoples who occupy the region... It is essential to health and security of the people that abundance and opportunity to participate in subsistence of the resource be maintained... Actions or methods specific to any one user group for profit off the resource is contrary to the collective whole interests and natural rights as human beings...

in simplest context,, take what you can eat,, what your family and dependents can eat and no more,, use whatever method you desire to harvest... Don't be greedy and wasteful... Above all else commercial and personal profit should be forbidden... Any harvest outside personal use should be strictly non profit...

Salmon and Steelhead are a regional treasure/resource and essential to health and welfare of the people and environment in the region they are produced/return to... Natural Abundance results in a healthy environment and healthy/happy people who inhabit the region... The returning fish represent positive energy/fuel to the environment and to the people...

There are simply too many people to live off the land. I am sure Tug can provide numbers and such of what happened when the SE Asian refugees descended on PS beaches. Cleaned them off of all the critters. But, they ate them all.

What's the estimate for pinks in PS this year/ I think it's north of 7 million. That would be, if my math works out right, two or three fish per person for WA residents. For the whole year.

Living off the land sounds nice, but how do you control it?

We do the same thing with the forests,, gain control over it to control abundance for the Global System when the resource is regional and not global,, not really sustainable when looking at the big picture... Managed forests grown like rows of corn for a global market system of production/consumption always expansion to measure success... The plants,, animals,, people and the environment do not win,, they never win in this scenario...

The environment only experiences a controlled life history,,, only a 40 year section that is fully controlled where the trees are planted,, grow and then harvested again to start over... A natural forest has a never ending life history when not controlled,, different resources exploited and available at different intervals in life history...

Carcassman,,, you know what natural abundance looks like,, or atleast there are a few places the semblance can be viewed... Under partial natural abundance even the amount of people we have now,, regionally could not even impact natural production levels...

Fish are a regional resource,, not global... If we maintain a national/regional mindset and view the resources for regional consumption on the basis of subsistence and not profit the entire mindset and perspective of the people will necessarily change...

In order for RichG's concept to work, WA state's population of 7.8 million people would need to be reduced to less than one million. Who's leaving? RichG?

Salmo that is [Bleeeeep!]...

For it to work,, people have to change their perspective,, realize that the current way of doing things is not successful.. the current way of viewing life and existence does not work,, is not sustainable...

This global mindset,, global market system,, global economic system,, it does not work because life happens regionally,, people exist regionally and not globally.. People live,, eat,, raise their families in a specific region at a given time,, they do not inhabit more than one place at a given time...

Each location/region is independent to one another,, the resources are independent region to region and the people and environment is dependent region to region...

Open your minds and go back to the drawing board,, get some new ideas,, form a real life perspective that is sustainable and does not harm each other or the environment...


This model we currently are under does not work long term,, has a short shelf life that results in total destruction down to critical levels if not extinction and then the opportunity to replant,, regrow and re harvest in a controlled state...

I agree that the current way of managing things, most things, is not sustanable. That seems to be about the only thing we agree on. The "model" we operate under does not work long term. The reason it doesn't is because it assumes that an ever expanding human population, along with an ever expanding economy, can exist in a finite world. And those numbers do not crunch. The Eve of Destruction will likely occur due to war, pandemics, massive famine and starvation due to climate change with too many people trying to live in marginal environments. I think this is the most probable outcome, given current trends.

If the people currently living in WA were forced to consume only foods grown/live/migrate to WA just how long would it take to first wipe out the resources and then serve out the people? We import a whole lot of foods, especially in winter.

What if you couldn't import water. While the really applies to CA, AZ, NV how many place here bring water in from elsewhere? Seattle and Tacoma come to mind.

There's a lot of our so called leadership that could be eating crow!

They're certainly not eating enough as we have an oversupply of crows.