Saw something about the QIN in negotiations with WDFW and CRIFC for the ability to net the Big C. Anybody (Rivrguy??) with actual knowledge on this?

HERE YA ARE


ILWACO — In a move with massive implications for commercial and recreational fishermen — and for the Chinook Indian Nation — a Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife email leaked May 28 confirms the Quinault Indian Nation is seeking fishery rights in Willapa Bay and the Lower Columbia River.

“The Quinault have indicated their intent to seek a determination from the federal court in U.S. v. Washington alleging they have a treaty right to harvest throughout Shoalwater and Willapa bays and about 60 miles up the Columbia River,” WDFW Columbia River Fishery Manager Ryan Lothrop said in the email obtained by the Chinook Observer.

“Before Quinault can bring their allegations to the court, they have to hold a ‘meet and confer’ with the U.S. v. WA parties, including Washington and treaty tribes. The meet and confer is scheduled for this Friday (May 29),” Lothrop added.

Lothrop confirmed late Thursday afternoon that the email obtained by the Observer and the situation to which is refers are real. The May 29 meeting is between parties to the litigation and is not open to the public or news media.

United States v. Washington — commonly known as the Boldt Decision — in 1974 gave tribes who were parties to 1850s treaties the right to half the catch in their “usual and accustomed grounds and stations,” with the tribes and the state managing the fisheries together. Willapa Bay, the south Washington coast and the Columbia River estuary were largely spared many direct consequences of Boldt because there weren’t ratified fishing treaties covering this area.

If the Quinault claim is upheld, their fishers could be entitled to half of the lucrative Dungeness crab fishery in the area, along with a half share of fin fisheries, such as salmon returning to Willapa Bay and the Columbia estuary. The Lower Columbia is co-managed by WDFW and the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.

The Chinook Indian Nation, unrecognized by the federal government and presently lacking treaty fishing rights, would find their long-time territory under the control of the Quinault, their traditional rivals. The Quinault have played a key behind-the-scenes role in opposing Chinook recognition efforts. The Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe is federally recognized but their current fishery rights are unclear at the time of this report.

The Quinault plans have been circulating for several months but there was no documentation to validate the allegations, and none of the parties have been willing to speak on the record.

Sources disclosed to the Observer that the Shoalwater Tribe was notified via letter months ago. However, the tribe did not respond to an email from the Observer seeking confirmation they had been notified.

The Observer submitted a public records request with WDFW on April 15 asking for the letter and/or emails regarding the matter. On April 21, WDFW Public Records Specialist Keri Street issued the Observer a formal notification that the agency had received the request, but provided an estimated time of fulfillment of Nov. 13.

This is a developing story and we will have more in-depth coverage as detai

Desk of The Quinault President

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


QUINAULT INDIAN NATION INITIATES PROCESS TO RECOGNIZE ITS SOUTHERN TREATY FISHING AREAS

TAHOLAH, WA — The Quinault Indian Nation has initiated the process under United States v. Washington to seek recognition of treaty-reserved fishing rights in southern waters historically used by the Quinault People.

As a first step, the Nation convened a Meet and Confer with interested parties pursuant to the procedures governing United States v. Washington. The meeting provides an opportunity for discussion before the Nation files a formal Request for Determination with the United States District Court.

The Treaty of Olympia preserved the Quinault People's right to fish at their usual and accustomed grounds and stations. For generations, those resources have sustained Quinault families and remained central to the Nation's culture, economy, and way of life. The Nation understands the historical record demonstrates extensive Quinault use of southern waters at and before treaty times.

“This effort is about honoring the promises preserved by our ancestors and ensuring that our history is accurately recognized,” said Quinault Indian Nation President Guy Capoeman. “Our people have long understood these waters to be part of the places where Quinault families lived, traveled, and fished. We have a responsibility to protect what was reserved for us and to ensure those rights are preserved for future generations as intended.”

The Nation emphasized that the initiation of this process does not result in any immediate changes to fisheries management or existing fishing activities. The matter will proceed through the established United States v. Washington framework.

Quinault remains committed to maintaining respectful government-to-government relationships with neighboring tribes, the State of Washington, and federal agencies throughout the proceedings.
“This is an important step for the Nation, but it is also a measured one,” President Capoeman added. “We approach this effort respectfully, in good faith, and with a commitment to the orderly resolution of unresolved treaty-rights questions.”

What will be interesting is that the initial Boldt Decision paperwork outlines, for the Court, the U&A of each of the Stevens Treaties Tribes. It will be interesting to see the data and expansion. May open some interesting doors.

For example, the original decision gave Yakama U&A in the Nisqually. Have to check to see if it was just the river or into marine waters.

I think there is an existing claim from the Yakama Nation to rights on the upper Cowlitz. Tad n pams were a branch of the tribe that routinely crossed the Cascades. Don't know if that is fact or not. I heard it from a Yakama member years ago. I think that the Quinaults on the Lower Columbia would be a disaster considering their habit of over harvesting.

AND HERE IS MORE:

Quinault launch Shoalwater and Willapa bays takeover bid

Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe and the still federally unrecognized Chinook are vowing to oppose the move

Jeff Clemens

For the Observer

Federal, state and tribal officials met May 29 at the Quinault Indian Nation’s Business Council Chambers in Taholah to discuss a push by the Quinault to expand their fishery boundary down to Cape Disappointment and up the Columbia River past Cathlamet.

Over the past several months, word emerged that the Quinault were planning a push to claim half of the lucrative Dungeness crab fishery in the area, salmon and other marine species in Pacific and Wahkiakum counties. This news was initially confirmed by an email obtained from the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife on May 28.

The Chinook Indian Nation is strongly condemning the Quinault effort to wade into waters dominated by the Chinook since time immemorial.

“The Quinault have indicated their intent to seek a determination from the federal court in U.S. v. Washington alleging they have a treaty right to harvest throughout Shoalwater and Willapa Bays and about 60 miles up the Columbia River,” the email written by Ryan Lothrop, WDFW’s Columbia River Fishery Manager, said.

“Before Quinault can bring their allegations to the court, they have to hold a ‘meet and confer’ with the U.S. v. WA parties, including Washington and treaty tribes. The meet and confer is scheduled for this Friday,” Lothrop added.

According to sources with knowledge of the negotiations, last week’s talks did not make significant progress, This means the issue is more than likely set to become a contentious legal battle. Local tribes including the Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe and the still federally unrecognized Chinook are vowing to oppose the move.

Legal document tells the tale

Last Thursday, the Observer obtained a copy of the “Notice of Meet and Confer Concerning



Quinault Indian Nation’s Proposed Request for Determination to Establish Non-Exclusive Marine and Fresh Water Usual and Accustomed Fishing Areas.”

The document shows that the meeting was initially scheduled to be held on April 23 but was moved to May 29, according to WDFW.

Citing past court actions, “the Quinault Indian Nation… seeks to invoke the continuing jurisdiction of the Court in order to determine and declare the nonexclusive treaty and equitable rights of the Nation to harvest all species of finfish, shellfish, and marine mammals in the marine waters within and throughout the Shoalwater Bay and Willapa Bay, and within and throughout the waters of the Columbia River, specifically from Peacock Spit to Oak Point, including Fort Canby, Cape Disappointment, Ilwaco, Sand Island, Chinook, McGowan, Cathlamet, and Dahlia within the State of Washington,” the notice added.

The Quinault are represented by attorneys Rob Roy Smith and Derek Red Arrow of Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP, a major multinational law firm with a local office in Seattle.

According to the notice, “the Court has never adjudicated Quinault’s southern treaty fishing boundary or made any determination regarding Quinault fishing rights in Willapa Bay, Shoalwater Bay, or on the Columbia River.”

“The Court has already recognized that the Quinault have fished and traded southward into Willapa and Shoalwater Bay, and to the Columbia River,” the notice states. “This Request for Determination seeks to determine exactly where the Quinault ‘customarily fished from time to time at and before treaty times’ within those specific waters.”

United States v. Washington — commonly known as the Boldt Decision — in 1974 gave tribes that were parties to 1850s treaties the right to half the catch in their “usual and accustomed grounds and stations,” with the tribes and the state managing the fisheries together. Willapa Bay, the south Washington coast and the Columbia River estuary were largely spared many direct consequences of Boldt because there weren’t ratified fishing treaties covering this area.

The Lower Columbia is co-managed by WDFW and the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. Carving out a half share for the Quinault would impact both states’ managerial decisions.

Quinault argue long history of incursions

According to the notice, the Quinault allege they are documented all the way back to the 1700s moving about the Washington coastline and river systems. They also “possessed large, seaworthy ocean canoes capable of extended offshore and coastal travel, enabling regular movement well beyond the immediate vicinity of the Quinault River and Lake Quinault.”

These accounts were allegedly documented by “Spanish explorers, French fur traders, fort records, United States Indian Agent journals and regional shellfish documentation.” Other accounts reportedly show the Quinault traveling all the way to the Columbia River for “salmon and sturgeon harvest.”

The agenda for the “meet and confer” states the sides plan to discuss: the basis for the push, possibly reaching a settlement, address technical issues, address disagreements, discuss narrowing and resolving the issue, discuss going into mediation or arbitration, and attempt to avoid litigation.

The Quinault plans have been circulating for several months but there was no documentation to validate the allegations, and none of the parties were willing to speak on the record.

Sources disclosed to the Observer that the Shoalwater was notified via letter months ago. The tribe did not respond to an email from the Observer seeking confirmation they had been notified.

The Observer submitted a public records request with WDFW on April 15 asking for the letter and/ or emails regarding the matter. On April 21, WDFW Public Records Specialist Keri Street issued the Observer a formal notification that the agency had received the request but provided an estimated time of fulfillment of Nov. 13.

The letter in question is the letter that the Observer obtained on May 28.

Tribes issue formal statements

The Shoalwater were directly involved in the talks and would — officially — be the most affected tribe if the Quinault are successful in their boundary push. Willapa Bay is not currently tribally co-managed, although the Shoalwater have a lucrative stake in fisheries.

The tribe is bracing for a fight, and appealing to tribal members and the public to come forward and unite in preserving their sovereignty.

“The Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe honors and respects the inherent sovereignty, history and treaty rights of all Tribal Nations,” the tribe stated in a May 30 press release. “Our request is that Shoalwater Bay’s history, homeland, resources and interests are considered and protected during this process. Willapa Bay is more than a geographical area on a map. It’s our home. It’s where our ancestors hunted, gathered, and



QUINAULTS from page A1 to A6
zoom-in
Dungeness crab — Washington’s most valuable fishery — are at the heart of Quinault tribal efforts to claim treaty fishing rights from Willapa Bay to 60 miles up the Columbia River. LUKE WHITTAKER / CHINOOK OBSERVER

raised families creating generational ties to this land and water.”

“It’s where our Tribe conducts business today and plans to pass on to future generations.

If there is a proposal to alter or expand who has rights to this land, we believe it should be done with evidence to support the claims, through government-to-government consultation, and with full consideration of how it will affect Shoalwater Bay’s reservation, tidelands, shellfish resources, local businesses and Tribal members.”

“We will continue to stand up for our Tribal members and protect our interests throughout this process. Shoalwater Bay will engage in this process professionally, respectfully, and tenaciously. Please join us in helping to preserve and document our history. If you have photos, family histories, historical documents, maps, journals or oral histories that speak to Shoalwater Bay’s history in Willapa Bay and the surrounding waterways please contact Tribal Administration or Chairman Quintin Johnson-Swanson.”

The tribe added that “it’s time for the story of Shoalwater Bay to be told by the people who have lived here for generations.”

The Chinook Indian Nation also issued a statement on May 30, standing united with neighboring tribes that undoubtedly includes the Shoalwater, with which they have maintained a strong relationship.

“The Chinook, alongside neighboring tribal nations, is standing up for our homelands, our waters, and our communities,” the tribe said. “For generations, Chinook people have lived, fished, worked, and cared for these places. These are not abstract lands and waters. They are homelands our ancestors never left. Many of us share relatives, ancestors, and relationships across communities.”

“Standing for Chinook homelands does not mean standing against our relatives. It means standing for the responsibilities we carry to these lands and waters, and to all who call Chinook territory home. The decisions being discussed today will shape the future of our region for generations to come,” the Chinook added.

Initial local reaction

Social media chatter over the news has been lively, with some cheering on the Quinault expansion hopes. Others are seeing it as another potential major blow to the public fishing privileges in western Washington.

Locally comments have been made on the Observer’s Facebook page following preliminary coverage of the details emerging.

Most are taking it as a major slap in the face to the Shoalwater Indian Nation and Chinook, which historically have been the tribal presences in Pacific County including Willapa Bay and along the Columbia River.

“Quinault is going beyond their territory into other tribes’ territories to fish and hunt,” commenter Mary Johnson said.

Another commentor, Mechele Johnson, said, “I believe this includes hunting and gathering as well.”

“Time to start carving the battle canoes,” commenter Sara Jones replied.

Most of the comments were strongly against the Quinaults’ push for expansion of their fishery rights.

“Because fighting to get the Chinook recognition rescinded wasn’t enough,” commenter Taylor Fischer said. “Greed will be the end of us all.”

When I was in PS management a rule of thumb was that state/tribal fights were nothing like tribal/tribal. Lots of popcorn to be comnsumed watching this one. Lots on the line, too.

Although, on the positive side, if QIN wins then Willapa can receive the same quality management as GH.

ah..................not sure there is much difference. Just different folks on the nets same outcome.

Well, yeah. Less for recs, though. But we can get a WB Management Plan just like the GH Plan.

I mis-posted in the wrong thread but I read one article saying a Federal Court said that QIN U&A had been determined decades ago.

I am also aware that, at times, Tribes invited other Tribes to fish in their U&A because it made management sense. Most common that I remember was downriver tribes inviting upriver tribes so that the escarpment would be less disturbed. Maybe the Shoalwaters can invite QIN???

The old GH Policy was dumped and the Commission adopted a new GH Policy plan all show no go and it is worthless.

Now they can have two of them

6/04/2026

Just a question here, with all the Washington parties wanting to extend or keep their share, why the heck do we allow "out of State" persons to license to fish or crab in our waters?????? Out of Staters, buy a license, don't really do anything to enhance the fisheries, fish or crab, then just go home, with $$$$$$ that others that fish the same areas, but live in Washington might need.

I actually feel the very same about the Washington commercial parties that head to Alaska for $$$$$$$ making but live in Washington....grrrrrr

I just read that Quinault filed their motion in federal district court on Monday. On Tuesday, the judge issued a 3-page opinion denying the Tribe's motion, effectively saying that Quinault's U&A was in fact adjudicated decades ago with the southern line being about 10 miles north of Willapa Bay.

Drifter, we allow non-resident fishing and hunting because we are the "United States," not the disunited states. So I can buy a non-resident license to fish in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Louisiana, Florida, etc. And people from other states can buy a non-resident license to fish in Washington, even if it generally isn't worth it for the fishing that remains here.

I just went through my collection of historic documents. The QINs may have the courts on their side, eventually.

The U&A that was adjudicated in Boldt applies only to the Case Area, which did not include Willapa watersheds or the Columbia. Some of language seemed to say that QIN fished these areas along with the other tribes like Chinook and Shoalwater. It did not indicate if this was by invitation, close (intermarriage/trading) relationships (like Yakama) or what. So, keep stocking up on popcorn.

If there was a treaty tribe in Willapa I think no go but the tribe at Tokeland is non treaty so I doubt they will have much to say to change the outcome. So who is the damaged guy if this comes about? NT commercials and WDFW's complete control. Now both of these entities are really vulnerable and NOT held in high regard. Will they succeed or is this like the Skoks on the Satsop? No idea but I am with CM spectator sport and popcorn time!

MORE



Court rules against Quinault fishing takeover

‘We disagree with the ruling that our southern boundary has already been established’

The Chinook Observer

WILLAPA BAY — The Quinault Indian Nation’s initial effort to seize fishing rights from Willapa Bay to 60 miles east along the Lower Columbia River was shot down by a federal judge on June 2. The Quinault, whose territory centers on Grays Harbor and the area immediately to its north, took preliminary steps earlier this spring to reopen the process of claiming treaty-protected “usual and accustomed” fishing and shellfishing grounds extend south into areas traditionally belonging to the Chinook Indian Nation and the Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe.

The Quinault, Chinook and Shoalwater all reacted to the June 2 ruling with expectations that the fight is far from over.

U.S. District Court Judge Ricardo S. Martinez in Seattle made a prompt and unambiguous decision about the Quinaults’ May 28 request to consider the matter under provisions of the the legal framework of U.S. v. Washington — also known as the Boldt Decision — which recognized that Washington treaty tribes are entitled to half the fish and shellfish available for harvest in their hereditary areas.

If allowed, expansion of Quinault territory into the Columbia would also impact the U.S. v. Oregon guidelines that protect tribal fishing rights east of Bonneville Dam. A host of other bi-state and intertribal arrangements would also be affected, potentially including recreational fisheries, since returning salmon would need to be split to take account of a new share for the Quinault.

For now, the status quo will remain in place.

“The Quinault Nation’s U&A [usual and accustomed area] has been adjudicated with a clear southern boundary. Eight years ago, the Court set forth a marine U&A as a polygon with a southwestern point and a southeastern point and a line connecting the two — the southern boundary. Willapa Bay, Shoalwater Bay, and the mouth of the Columbia River are all more than 10 miles south of that boundary. To include them in the marine Q&A now would be to overrule the Court’s prior adjudication,” the judge concluded.

“The Quinault Nation fails to demonstrate that anything was left unadjudicated. To the contrary, the Motion states that the Court (back in Subproceeding 09-1) was presented with ‘evidence demonstrating that Quinault marine fishing practices were oriented southward and westward along the coast ‘between Cape Flattery and the Columbia River’ as well as ‘60 miles south of Quinault in Shoalwater Bay,’’ but nevertheless drew the line more than 10 miles north of Willapa Bay, Shoalwater Bay, and the Columbia River. There is no basis for the Court to amend its prior conclusions, or apparent logical reason to adjudicate a U&A in the freshwater of the Columbia River now after all of the previous determinations reached in this matter,” the judge decided.

In response, “Quinault knew when we filed this case that we would be in for a lengthy battle to prove the location of the usual and accustomed fishing areas guaranteed under our Treaty. We disagree with the ruling that our southern boundary has already been established, and plan to aggressively continue to pursue our claims through the court process,” Quinault President Guy Capoeman said Tuesday on social media.

The Chinook said on their Facebook page, “Today, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington denied Quinault’s request to open a new subproceeding seeking treaty rights in Willapa Bay, and the lower Columbia River. In its order, the Court confirmed that Quinault’s southern treaty fishing boundary has already been determined and lies more than 10 miles north of Willapa Bay. We thank everyone who has stood with us and helped elevate our Nation’s voice.”

The Shoalwater, whose small reservation is at the northern side of Willapa Bay’s entrance, said on Facebook, “Although this may not be the final word on the matter, it is a

Salmon and crab are near the center of Quinault Indian Nation efforts to take fishing rights in Willapa Bay and the Columbia River. In 2025, Chinook tribal members Wyatt Davis, 20, of South Bend, and Tahoma Johnson, 25, of Bay Center, helped prepare salmon using traditional methods before the fish was roasted over an alder fire and served to the tribe. LUKE WHITTAKER / CHINOOK OBSERVER

decisive ruling from the Court at this time denying Quinault’s request to reopen their boundaries. We will continue to monitor the situation and will certainly take action if we feel it’s necessary to protect the interests of the Shoalwater Bay Indian Tribe.

“At this point, it’s enough for us to remain vigilant and stand strong. We recognize and respect the sovereignty, history, and treaty rights of all Tribal Nations surrounding us. However, we will also fight vigorously to defend Shoalwater Bay’s rights to our reservation, our tidelands, our resources, and future generations.”

The Quinault are represented by attorneys Rob Roy Smith and Derek Red Arrow of Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP, a major multinational law firm. The billable rate for its attorneys can exceed $950 an hour.

Tug, my memory told me the Yakimas had U&A, according to the Boldt case,in the Nisqually. Turns out it extended up to the Puyallup and Green, too. No saltwater rights, but freshwater to the Bays.

As I noted earlier, the Court made clear that the determinations were only applicable to the Boldt Case area, so QIN claims south of GH and Yakama claims in the Cowlitz haven't been adjudicated. Opens up some really nice cans of worms.

I think the biggest issue of QIN on the Columbia would not be overfishing but fishing in front of/with the Buoy Zooey fishery that has traditionally been one of the few meaningful "first shots" the recs get at adult salmon.

Plus, the 50:50 is I/NI. There is noting in the Treaty Law that would prevent QIN from taking the whole Big C share for the Tribes. Those conflicts occur, or did occur, in PS.