The following excerpt is from another board. The discussion was about the ethics of bonking a dark out-of-basin hatchery fish

My response:

Yes away.

Run a streamside test fillet. If no good, then donate it back to the stream for nutrient enhancement.

No foul, no waste, good for wild fish.

Just thought I'd see how this would fly among this crowd...

hell ya smack em good.

The right thing to do would be to bonk(biologically speaking) Minimizes spawning interaction with Native fish. Personally, I would bonk a chrome one in a heartbeat, but a discolored boot is tough to bonk, i almost feel sorry for the camo clad swimmer and let em go

Question is doc, do you mark it on your punchcard, or illegally kill a steelhead? =)
Here's another point to be made.. Has it spawned yet? If it has, then the harm is already done.. There is potential for that hatchery fish to go back out and come back the next year as a bigger, once again nice hatchery fish...

Food for thought! Interested to hear your thoughts!

Allow me to clarify:

Hatchery fish derived from out-of-basin stock, should be removed from the system. That is one of the goals of fish managers because it is good for wild fish.

Catch a dark hatchery fish? Bonk it and tag it if you have not yet reached your limit. Or pass the rod off to your buddy and let him tag it. Releasing it to spawn is pointless.

Scenario one: If it spawns with another of its kind, no returning adults will result from the pairing... an utter waste of the limited spawning and rearing habitat occupied by the maladapted hatchery fish that could otherwise have been used by native wild spawners and their progeny.

Scenario two: If it spawns with a wild fish, exceedingly few returning adults will be produced by the pairing (statistically indistinguishable from ZERO) thereby wasting the full reproductive potential of that wild fish. You may just as well have bonked the wild fish to get the same result.

Moral of the story:

Whenever possible, bonk the hatchery fish that you legally catch with hook and line. Tag it as required by law. If it is not fit to eat, instead of throwing it in the trash or burying it in the garden, consider returning it to the river from whence it came... more food for the wild juveniles.

Hardly a case of wanton waste.

Doc.. What about the scenario if it has already spawned? Let it come back maybe to catch a bigger version the next year? that is if a hatchery fish is smart enough to make it back a second time? I'm convinced they are dumb enough to spawn with a stick for a mate... lol..

Bonk it,punch it,an then I feed it to my dog,
he loves'em
Not to worry guys he is immune to salmon
poisoning,it's the wolf.

He does'nt get them all,
I do eat my share of'em

I bonked a spawned out hatchery hen just a couple weeks ago. I haven't caught that many kelts to know, for sure, if she was spawned out...still kinda plump, but had an egg or two poking out her vent.



Pic taken after the fish was gutted.

We decided to bonk her, and I would take a chance with the meat. It was PERFECT! Dark pink, and tasty as all get out. :fishonbbq:

So, just because it's spawned does not always mean bad meat..

Just because they are spawned out doesn't mean they will be white inside. I've bonked a couple that, upon filleting, had white meat, and they went back to the river behind my house. IMO they are there to be bonked, if caught...whether spawned out or not.

Mis Dos Centavos...

Mike

Mike, you must have one heck of a cameraman to make you look that good.....C/22!

Doc -
Interesting question as with most issues in the fisheries world there isn't a black and white answer.

For me it would depend on how well the out basin hatchery program is segregated from the wild population. In the situation where the hatchery program is segregated the bonk or releasing the unspawned hatchery fish would make virtually no difference to the productivity of the wild population unless the keeping of the hatchery fish reduces the number of wild fish the angler catch.

For the situation where the hatchrey and wild populations are poorly segregated then bonking and using the fish in some fashion would be the choice. For me the situation of hatchery program where wild broddstock demands that all the hatchery fish be removed unless the wild population is in such door shape that the hatchery program is rescue program. In at least the areas that I'm familar with it is virtually impossible to develop properly intregrated hatchery program for steelhead using wild brood stock - unable to incorprate the full diversity of the wild population in the brood stock.

In the basin (the Skagit) where ISO's pictured kelt came from the hatchery program is so well segregated from the wild fish that it represents very little threat to the wild population (at least in hatchery/wild interactions on the spawning grounds). In fact it may well be that those natural spanwing hatchery fish represent less of threat to the wild steelhead productivity of the basin than the current CnR fishery.

Intersting discussion -
Curt

Interesting topic. I used to keep hatchery steelhead based soley on whether I wanted one to eat or not. With better information about the ecological implications, decisions are becoming harder. A couple weeks ago I fished a system that is stocked with hatchery steelhead from a native broodstock. However, I don't think it's really an integrated hatchery broodstock program, so the hatchery steelhead are most likely reproductive misfits in the natural environment.

Removing hatchery steelhead from the river system is a good thing, and they are stocked to be caught. Yet, that doesn't exactly mesh with my goals while fishing. I did keep one fish that was fairly bright, but if I'd kept the second, then I'd have had to stop fishing for the day and float downstream to the takeout, passing over water that was interesting to fish. And fishing is my recreational goal, and sometimes taking a fish home is part of that goal, and sometimes it isn't.

And then last weekend on the Skagit, I couldn't land a fish to save my soul. No decisions required.

It may be a result of Smalma description above of segregating the wild and hatchery fish, but I am aware of at least one hatchery that when they have their quota of eggs, simply closes the gates to the trap and let the hatchery fish spawn in the feeder creek. This is also on one the the rivers where you catch a number of cookie cutter but unclipped fish.

Here's another question about Doc's scenario:

Say you catch a dark Chambers creek buck in late February. It's real nasty lookin', but you still kill it and then return the carcass to the river. Wouldn't that be a violation of the law regarding the wasting of game fish, even though it makes sound biological sense?

Although some of you find them careless and offensive, my remarks in this thread are NOT inconsistent with any of my past remarks about wild fish conservation.

It really boils down to this: What is the "highest and best use" of an OOB hatchery fish?

There's no doubt they were created to satisfy the demands of the tag-buying public for harvestable food. But what happens when the product is no longer fit for the table? Do you feed it to your cat, your garden, or your trash can? Might there be a "higher and better use" for that unpalatable protein?

You bet!

Give it back to the river to feed and sustain the next generation of wild fish!

Catch it legally... bonk it legally... tag it legally... now it's yours to do with whatever you so desire. The state doesn't tell you you have to eat it.

If you wanted to mount the fish for a trophy and failed to salvage the meat, is that wanton waste? If you fed it to your cat, is that wanton waste? If you grew a state record zucchini with it as fertilizer, is that wanton waste? I would concede that if you took it home only to end up trashing it, that would constitute wanton waste.

If instead you decided to feed the next generation of salmon/steelhead with it, is that REALLY wanton waste?

Things that make ya go HMMMMM.....

CATCH IT LEGALLY... BONK IT LEGALLY... TAG IT LEGALLY.

Now it's yours to do with whatever you wish.

If it's a downer, I really don't think it's got much chance at making another return trip. Like you said... damage already done. Still think I'd be inclined to bonk it and donate it back to the river.

Page 23 of the regs prohibits "intentionally wasting" game fish. Not sure whether the legislative history of this provision, or a field enforcement officer, will interpret placing the carcass back into the water as being an "intentional waste".

It's interesting to note that page 23 of the regs uses language that requires use of salmon, herring, and halibut for human consumption or fishing bait, rather than using the "intentional waste" language.

I am going to over simplify...so what's new? If I can use it, I'll kill it. I don't adhere to the "kill it for fertilizer" group, and I don't trust the percentages supplied by any group with interests in specific types of fish management. If it lives and spawns, and some of the eggs hatch, and some of the adults return, I have more fish to catch. The eggs that didn't hatch supplied nutrients, the fingerlings and smolts that got ate up by other fish/birds/seals supplied nutrients, the adults that didn't return either supplied nutrients or food for my competitors and companions.

I ask myself if the naturally spawing hatchery adult return numbers are so low, then how can they create any significant impact? If anyone anywhere can promise me that for every hatchery fish I bonk, I'll receive in the river one more adult wild steelhead, then I'll go for it. But you can't so I won't. Simple, see?
And by the way, if you bonk it, punch it, and toss it back....no sweat by me.

I would be more likely to bonk it if it was a big buck. If you've ever watched steelies spawn, the big bucks will mate with hens on the biggest, best spawning beds and will fight off smaller bucks who try to get in on the action. A big hatchery buck could do a lot more damage genetically than a little one.