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#134559 - 01/10/02 10:28 AM A Native on the Cowlitz?
Fish-Bite Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 221
Loc: Rainier, WA 98576
Last weekend, my friend known as "cut of the Jib", hooked a beautiful fish on the Cowlitz. It took quite a few runs; in fact, it took about 20 minutes or more to get to the net. Some of you may recall the story about Cut of the Jib's first steelhead from last year on the Hoh, where I took such special care netting it, in fact I did everything wrong, from hitting it in the head a few times with the net, to getting the hooks wrapped in the net before getting the fish in. It was a mess. Well, this time it was a little smoother, and my friends' second steelhead ever, appeared to be a Native.

My question here is, is this a special case on the Cowlitz? I have never heard of a Native being caught on the Cowlitz, and thought it was pretty special. Any comments?

Although it went into the net, it never came out of the water and we released it. I think as we did, the entire world seemed to stop around us. The birds stopped chirping, the river didn't make a sound, no one said a word, and it was a pretty special feeling. It took about 5 minutes to get the fish's strength back up, for a minute it seemed she was in trouble, but all the advise I have read here on the website about releasing fish came in handy, and she sped off into the current, unharmed, strong, a little angry, just momentarily gracing us by stopping in to say hello.

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#134560 - 01/10/02 12:23 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Hey Yall Watch This Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 444
Loc: Olympia....beeyotch
Way to go, bro! Release those native steelies!

I'm not going to say that your case is "special", but they do get caught from time to time. I think 98.9% of the fish are of hatchery origin that are in the Cow (don't quote me on that figure, but that's a good guesstimate; it's written down somewhere).
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#134561 - 01/10/02 01:04 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
centerpin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/24/00
Posts: 377
Loc: The Terrace
Caught and relased a nate on the cow 12/27/01 it was the hottest fish I have hooked thi winter. smile smile
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#134562 - 01/10/02 03:45 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Fish Jesus Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 744
Loc: Tacoma
After many years of "year round flogging" on the Cowlitz I have only hooked 1 "wild" fish which I promptly released. I refer to them as wild due to the fact that it is highly doubtful than a native strain exists amongs all those brats.

FJ...out.

Fishing is my religion dammit!

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#134563 - 01/10/02 04:37 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Hohwaiian Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/06/99
Posts: 470
Loc: Seattle, Washington, US
I agree...Two brats did the "wild" thing in the mainstem.

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#134564 - 01/10/02 05:52 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
scottguides Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 215
Loc: elma
my boat has landed 3 unclipped steelies since mid december,they seemed to fight a lot harder.all in the 8 to 10lb.bracket.scott

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#134565 - 01/10/02 06:40 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1828
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Ok you guys, here's the real story! laugh

Some of these fish you are now catching may be a product of "natural spawning" hatchery fish. The fish, most likely are from a "hatchery" stock of fish. It could have been from a late summer run, or crosses of late summer and early winter run breeds. What this should tell you is; "natural spawned" and reared fish seemed to have more "fight" in them then hatchery raised fish do.

It's a simple explanation to explain, when you are raised in the streets and live and survive there, you become one tuff SOB!

This rule applies to all creatures of life, be it beast, fish or whatever! The fish that you caught most likely was a prodigy of a "hatchery born fish". If any of you out there think that I am wrong about this issue, on the Cowlitz, then let it fly!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: cowlitzfisherman ]
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Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

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#134566 - 01/10/02 07:31 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
G-MAN Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 379
Loc: BELLINGHAM / EVERSON
So if it returns and it's a "Wild Fish" and not a "Native" why can't you bonk it? It it returned because of two Hatchery parents is it still a "Retard" and should be removed from the river? I thought the Cowlitz didn't have any Natives, does it? Remember, a Native and a Wild fish are differant, that's why the state classified them differantly.
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#134567 - 01/10/02 07:38 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Chromeo Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/29/01
Posts: 550
Loc: Kenmore, WA
hey cowlitz,
when would a steelhead come back if it was a crossbreed between a winter and summer fish?
tyler
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#134568 - 01/10/02 07:44 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Hey Yall Watch This Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 444
Loc: Olympia....beeyotch
If it ain't clipped, then you have to release it on the Cowlitz, regardless if it is native, wild, somoan, or Floridian.

I agree whole-heartedly with ya Bob. Especially on your story Scotty. Sounds like cookie cutter brats had kids in the river, scotty.

Hey Tyler, how old are you, if you don't mind me asking? I met a Tyler once down on the Cow in the fall. He was high school age.
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#134569 - 01/10/02 09:24 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13605
King Marine,

Congratulations to you and Cut of the Jib!

There are both wild steelhead (natural production) and native steelhead (mostly hatchery and some natural production) in the Cowlitz River. Let me add to what Cowlitzfisherman said. Some of the hatchery summer and winter steelhead escape the fishery and spawn naturally in the river. Some small number of wild fish subsequently return from this production.

Additionally, some of the early returning hatchery fish to the barrier dam hatchery are transported to the Tilton River, above Mayfield Dam. Those fish not caught in the sport fishery spawn naturally in that river, and some natural - wild - smolts result from that production and are counted through the Mayfield Dam smolt counting house each spring. So some wild steelhead caught in the lower Cowlitz are from this natural production.

And there is an additional possibility. Steelhead fry from late season returning hatchery winter runs, that WDFW has determined as most likely from "native" Cowlitz stock, are stocked in the upper Cowlitz River and tributaries each summer or fall. These "hatchery-native" fry rear naturally in the upper basin and migrate downriver at about 2 years of age. About half of them are collected at the Cowlitz Falls Dam and are transported to the lower Cowlitz. A few of these fish have been returning the last couple years to the Cowlitz River. Most of them return late in the season because they are from late-timed parents. However, the natural environment exerts its forces on those fish, and their run timing will begin to spread out according to the influences of a natural environment.

We've seen on the Skagit that as the wild run increases in size, there are more and more earlier returning native steelhead. I would expect the same thing to occur on the Cowlitz. However, I would have expected it to occur over a couple generations or more. Nonetheless, I've seen run timing shifts in coho that were transferred from a hatchery to the natural environment in a single generation.

So this is speculation, and I am interested in others' opinions on it. It is possible that a wild Cowlitz steelhead in January, and even late December, could be an early returner from the natural production in the upper Cowlitz River basin. The net result is that if that unmarked steelhead shows up in the barrier dam fish trap, it will be transported to the upper river basin to spawn naturally and help develop a restored run of naturally spawning, naturally rearing, native Cowlitz River steelhead. Therefore, congratulations on your friend's catch, and double congratulations for releasing it. That fish can do double duty, having contributed to your recreation, and now it has a chance to contribute to recovering and restoring a wild steelhead run in the Cowlitz River basin.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#134570 - 01/10/02 11:14 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Prawn Meat Offline
Fry

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 22
Loc: Chehalis, WA
The only true native you'll possibly encounter is one from Mill Creek or possibly Salmon Creek. The Cowlitz itself is native free. Just the token native might pass through to one of the tribs. All the true Cowlitz natives are long gone and will never be again. It sucks but man needed power and the Cowlitz had a lot of water...the rest is history.

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#134571 - 01/11/02 12:11 AM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
G-MAN Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 379
Loc: BELLINGHAM / EVERSON
STS 12/01 A "Native" is a fish that was born in a specific river system and so was it's parents. Free from any hatchery or foreign river system roots. A "Wild" is a fish with hatchery parents or another river system roots. This fish itself could be from another system. FYI
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"Life is tough!, it's tougher when your STUPID!!
"What don't kill you, will only make you Stronger!'

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#134572 - 01/11/02 12:11 AM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1828
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Good to see you're still around Salmo G!

Since we never get to jab anymore, let's talk TURKEY!

Please tell us how that "early" "wild" steelhead that they released will ever get back to its place of origin to spawn, especially when "early wild" steelhead are not being allowed to be put into the upper Cowlitz before the end of February? As you know, originally about haft of the true Cowlitz run of steelhead returned from mid November to January and the other haft returned from February to April.

So what was accomplished by releasing this fish? Really? You know that these "wild" Cowlitz steelheads are pretty much the same animal as the now famous "bogus lynx". The guy who made the great genetic discovery of this special genetic stock of "Late Winter Cowlitz steelhead" is now dead.

I will bet you money, if someone checks this out; it will turn out to be just like the lynx hoax! I just herd that WDFW is now under investigation about the Grizzly Bear issue. Apparently, some biologist had gotten a hold of a hide from Canada and may have done the same thing with it as what was done with the lynx fur.

USFW and NMFS needs to undertake this issue and see if the Cowlitz genetic results were also a scam by WDFW.

How's that for cold Turkey?

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: cowlitzfisherman ]
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Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

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#134573 - 01/11/02 11:42 AM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13605
Cowlitzfisherman,

(FYI, love those jigheads. What's the next handful gonna' cost me?)

I don't think any of the Cowlitz steelhead are related to lynx, so not sure about that reference. If that unmarked steelhead shows up at the barrier dam trap, it will be transported to the upper Cowlitz River. If it is carrying a Tilton VI tag, it will get trucked to the Tilton. WD at region 5 agreed to change the February default date for hauling wild fish above the dams. I asked him to do so for the reasons I mentioned in my post above. Wild fish will expand their return timing in response to environmental influences, and we should let the fish decide when the appropriate time to migrate is, and not the calendar.

As you no doubt know, we really need good relationships with the guys at the hatchery, since they're the ones who are making the restoration happen. Fortunately, they seem more dependable than the regional office, cuz they sort the fish and drive the trucks, and that's what restoration depends on for now.

The upshot is that the unmarked steelhead these guys released stands a good chance of spawning in either the Tilton or upper Cowlitz. That is, unless he eats your jig before he makes it to the barrier dam.

And another possibility that one poster mentioned. That unmarked fish could have been a dip in from another river system, and could make its way back to wherever it belongs.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#134574 - 01/14/02 12:30 PM Re: A Native on the Cowlitz?
Fish-Bite Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 221
Loc: Rainier, WA 98576
Thank you for all the info. I always apprectiate the guys who contribute good info. Thanks again!!

JW

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