I've caught my share of fish and handled my share. Recently i've been a bit paranoid on picking up Native Steelhead because alot of posts on here seem to make it out as a very negative thing to do. Everytime i hook one i have my mind filled with comments on how it damages there membrane and survival rates related to touching them. It kinda makes me jittery reeling them in thinking of what i am going to do if it's a Nate cuz i want that pic.

But one thing i've noticed and am sure all of you have is the overall number of setups lost by drifters in 1 day of fishing. What's so special about that? Well lets say 4 fishermen lose 4 setups apiece in one paticular hole(i see this often). That's 16 setups lost. Now take that number and multiply it by, lets say, 60 possible days they could fish in a steelhead season. You get 960 setups lost in that 60 days of fishing. Now this is 960 setups in one hole. So imagine 1 hole per mile of the river. Given in a 10 mile river, that equals 10 holes. So throughout the 10 holes in the river with an average of 4 fisherman per mile losing 4 setups per day for 60 fishing days, they will have lost 9600 setups. That number may be a little lower or alot higher in reallity. Just imaging the numbers for a whole year.

So what am i getting at? Well those 9600 setups all have atlease a 1/4 oz. of lead on them(typical drifting setup)usually more. That works out to roughly 240 oz or 15 POUNDS of lead being dumped needlessly into our rivers, poisoning everything in site, in just those 60 days. Imagine 20 years worth! And all of us know there are far more than an average 4 people per mile on the river on the weekends. And i've seen people snap off more than 6 times in some holes with alot more than just a 1/4 oz. Lead poisoning is serious business. And we are all worried about the fish spawning when in reallity we should be worrying about our own reproductive damage caused by lead. Who knows what it's doing to the river habitat. What about the lakes?? A storm is brewin, and i'd hate to see the fall out.

Please strongly consider using aluminum as an alternative to lead. If not for the rivers sake then for your kids sake. It works just as well if not better, and comes in all application sizes. OUR future has always been in YOUR hands, you just need to realize it.

another aspect to think about is the number of fish caught when they bight a snagged hook. I've come across several fish that were tangled up and near death because they bit a corky that had it's weight snagged up. Most fish are strong enough to break it lose but when people use 20+ lb line it's tough to snap.

Aw, that ain't the half of it...hover your mouse to display your favorite watershed's name...click on it...then click on the "1998 Impaired Water" link to see a list of parameters of concern.

http://cfpub.epa.gov/surf/state.cfm?statepostal=WA

Fecal Coliform and Chips, anyone?

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: fishkisser99 ]

An interesting thought FFF ... something that has crossed my mind before.

BUT, the Bogey gets tremendous fishing pressure at some times; the 'Duc is a notorious gear grabber. Yet, studies have been done on these rivers (I don't recall who did them, it was in the PA paper last year for all the Peninsula streams) and the only "pollution" they found in the Quillayute watershed was what they called "temperature pollution" ... warmer than what they should be in the summer due to loss of natural shade. They did find other poullutants elsewhere, so I know they tested for them ... but it doesn't appear to be a problem there.

Not arguing the damage lead can do, but I'd like to see the proof that it is actually taking place and caused by anglers before I change.

On this same line Yellowstone lake requires nonlead weights. This includes your downrigger weight.

we have steelshot for waterfowl hunting due to waterfoul ingesting the lead shot and causing mortality. I doubt many fish are ingesting the lost lead.

I also do not doubt that it will not be many years before we have to use nonlead weights.

If you want to see just how much lead can be deposited on a given snag go to the Willie Boat factory and check out the "Trophy" snag they have displayed on the wall. A 4'x2'x10' collection of lead and corkies and mono. Had to weigh over 500 lbs. and that was just one snag.

This has come up many times over the years. A couple of relevant points:

1) Lead shot causes harm to waterfowl because they directly ingest it, and they also grind it in there gizzard so that finely ground lead comes into contact with stomach acid, allowing it to come into solution and poison them. Fish a) do not ingest the lead, and b) do not have gizzards to grind it.

2) Lead shot and sinkers introduced into rivers has a higher specific gravity than the rocks and sand around it, which means it will sift itself into the lowest level of the substrate, becoming unavailable to wildlife. Think about how gold, another heavy mineral, collects itself in a stream. You have to dig for it.

3) Lead is pretty insoluble in water. It doesn't just leach away, to my knowledge. I hope there is a chemist out there that can quantify this, but lead doesn't just dissolve into the water like, say, salt does.

So, based on these points, I don't get two worried about the sinkers I lose. Instead, I worry about the litter, sixpack holders, and monofilament line that I encounter on the shore, which demonstrably does injure wildlife.

I've thought about this problem for a long time and have switched to either steel or aluminum shot long ago. But i also never thought it could really do any harm because of the density factor. I totally agree. But i read a recent biological report about them finding mercury and lead in resident salmon in the Tod's shipyard area or the mouth of the Duwamish(green). So they are getting it somewhere. Either the baitfish has it or crustations have it or they are getting it from the water column. I just think if the manufacturer tells you to never put it in your mouth or wash your hands after handling the product, then the littlest amounts have a big impact and it can't be good in any form, anywhere.

I used to have a link to a study on pollution from lead fishing weights lost in rivers, can't seem to find it right now. Anyway, it said the main concern was waterfowl ingesting small weights like split shot. At the temperature of river water the lead dosn't disolve into the water and was not an environmental problem.

Looking for something to worry about? Look here.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian...93220242139.xml

I still use my teeth on occassion to crimp down lead shot once in a while. Anyone know how big of a deal this is?

the mouth of the duwamish is polluted from years of industrial dumping, PCBs and heavy metals galore...commencement bay (tacoma, mouth of the puyallup) and elliot bay (seattle, duwamish) were part of the federal superfund cleanup years ago and i dont know how bad it is now but there are signs posted at alki regarding this

Above a pH of 6.0 elemental lead is pretty insoluble. THe pH of most WA rivers are well above 6.0.

Totally a guess, but possibly in the shipyards you might find lead-based paint once used to paint the hulls of oceanic vessels now rusting off and flaking into the water?

Silver Hilton said it best; lead (pencil lead/slinkies etc.) isn't a real problem to salmon because of its non-solubility. Lead restrictions in National Parks are Federal regulations to protect migratory birds under the Migratory Birds Protection Act.

Resident salmon caught near Todd Shipyards and other industrial facilities likely accumulated those heavy metals from industrial effluents that contain dissolved metals. It's my understanding that resident blackmouth have shown levels elevated above background, but only sporadically, and at levels that are not harmful to fish or humans. As for non resident migrants, this is generally not a problem because of their relatively short exposure; they generally migrate past these areas relatively quickly on their way in or out. I happen to think that habitat degradation in these highly developed lower river areas has done more harm to salmon populations than the pollutants. Juvenile salmon cannot rear in these areas anymore, which affects the total carrying capacity of the river.

Places like Commencement Bay, Elliot Bay, Harbor Island, Eagle Harbor, etc. are still highly polluted and are just now beginning clean-up phases. I really wouldn't eat bottom fish caught in developed areas because these are residents that live in close association with the bottom sediments where these pollutants accumulate. However, fish that don't live in these areas generally come up clean in testing. This includes Puget Sound blackmouth and the forage fish species that they feed on (herring, surf smelt, sand lance). These species just don't seem to spend that much time in highly polluted areas so exposures are minimized. It wouldn't surprise me though to see accumulations above normal; just not at consistently dangerous levels.

Given these findings, the thing about using steel or aluminum as an alternative is the greater volume you would use because of its lighter density. The tradeoff is putting more of the stuff in the river because you use more. And like was mentioned, its not likely to bury as deeply, whether it be in the next drift down or in the lower river after it blasts downstream from winter storms. River mouths are generally depositional, and the excess lead gets deposited and buried in the lower rivers like sand, rocks, and other debris. And as it works its way downstream, the denser stuff will be deposited in deeper sediment layers.

I guess my opinion is that pencil lead and such is just another form of litter that should be minimized while on the river. Practice good fishing techniques. If your consistently dragging bottom (instead of bouncing), take some of it off. If your constantly hanging up, move, or switch to a float. And if you pull up that loooong piece of line attached to the bottom, take a minute to pull it out and stick it in a small trash bag (a must for the back of the vest).

OK.. I use to work for an environmental engineering firm...we delt with a lot of water pollution issues..

According to Perry's Chemicle Handbook.. Lead as a metal is insoluable in water. Certain Lead Salts are (Lead Oxide)..but to a degree where it would take a like a billion years for that 2" cunk of pencil lead that I lost up on the Sky to leach into the water..

On the OTHER hand.... if there are lots of Nitrates loating around in the water, as a result of Agriculture and Lawn fertilizer run off, Cows $H1tting in the river, etc... you can get these nice litte Lead Nitrates forming... which are VERY soluable in water. And are a good way to poisen a river system.. They have a lot of problems with Lead Nitrates leaching out of old mines in the Rocky Mountains... Hence all the crapped up streams in the Rockies. (laugh every time I see a Coors ad, talking about pure Rocky Mtn. water.)

So anyways.. This is yet another reason to try and protect out waterways form Industrial and Agriculture pollution..

I would worry more about the Nitrates than the lead...

phish i always use my teeth for that. but everyonce in a while i'll TwEAk ouT AnD HavE a SPazAm. damn another one! J/K i also cut my line with my teeth but i can tell my teeth are waring down.
tyler

Great to see Obsessed back in action... His well-written and informative posts add so much to this board...

suppose I will drop my two cents....
I owned and managed a local bullet factory for a few years in the late nineties and dealt with lead daily. We went through several rail cars per month. We stored a lot of it outside with the blessing of all regulating agencies so long as it was free of oil and contaminants (their wording not mine). We used fluoboric acid (one of only two that will) to dissolve the lead. Lead will NOT disolve in a 99% solution of sulfuric(battery) acid. Your car battery is about a 10% solution. Fluoboric acid is not common and does not show up in any watersheds that I am aware of.

The average human will show about 5 micrograms in the bloodstream. The employees who would eat or smoke without washing their hands would go to about 25. I had one man who tested over 50. L and I requires you to remove the person from the job at 30 and the premises at 50. Lead is most dangerous to children and the unborn, presenting a myriad of maladies and illnesses. Adults can process from 20 to 30 micrograms out of their systems in about two months. If you use lead and smoke, wash thoroughly before lighting up or eating your lunch. I would also suggest all those who cast their own lead or routinely handle it to have a blood test every year. It does abrade easily and the dust travels remarkably well.

I, personally, do not worry one bit about the lead in the rivers. The line and tackle it is usually tied to are what get me tweaked off. If you have to use twenty pound fireline to fish steelhead...take up bass fishin' and stay away from the rivers. The shipyards used a zinc-chromate primer similar to Boeing (the green stuff)that contains all kinds of nasties already in solution. Remember also that back in the sixties all of the local plating shops could and would dump electroplating waste into the rivers and streams leading to the sound. I know a guy that turned about 5 miles of the green river bright purple one day way back when. Thankfully the people and the laws prevent that stuff now.

If you need a reason to dislike water, just remember.....fish hump in it. I drink mountain dew------

Sniggler…

Very good post

You are very correct regarding lead nitrates. The fact that metallic lead may be deposited deep within river sediments does not mean it is gone forever. Water flows above the gravels in a river as well as under. The flow of water under the gravel is very important to the incubation of salmonid eggs that is why salmon and steelhead can be very picky about where they build their redds.

As to the problems caused by lead nitrate on trout…

Found at: http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc85.htm

“Holcombe et al.(1976) exposed three generations of brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) to lead nitrate in the water. All second generation trout exposed to 0.235 or 0.474 mg total lead/litre, and 34% of those exposed to 0.119 mg/litre, developed spinal deformities. Scoliosis developed in 21% of newly hatched third generation fish exposed to 0.119 mg lead nitrate/litre. The weights of these same third generation fish were significantly reduced 12 weeks after hatching. The authors calculated a MATC for brook trout, based on the scoliosis effect, of between 0.058 and 0.119 mg total lead/litre (0.039 and 0.084 mg dissolved lead/litre) in soft water (hardness: 44 mg CaCO3/litre) at a pH of between 6.8 and 7.6.”

This study would indicate that the "affects" of lead nitrate exposure do accumulate over several generations. Does anyone have a clue as to what could be happening after 50 to 100 years of exposure?

POS Clerk