Ok, Doomsday is here!!!!

The last "wild native" (genetic) steelhead is now gone forever in your river! C&R isn't an option anymore, because all the "Natives" are now gone. So what do we do if we still want to continue our sport fishing in that same river system?

According to majority of the postings on this board (my opinion), doomsday is almost here. So what options do we really have left?

Now what do we do as fishermen? Do we attempt to get some short of "genetic tissue" from the few fish left, in a good faith attempt to "bring them back" in the future, or do we move on? If so, onto what? What does "moving on" really mean to this board of fishermen?

Let's just "pretend" that this scenario has happened, and that we are now facing a new time and reality (no wild native fish left). What will be our choices and options if this is our true future? We already know what the ones who live, die and promote "wild" fish recovery will say, and we also know that they truly believe that it can be turned around. But what If they can not do it?

With that being said, I would like to hear from the 3000+ members on this board that may have different options and views of what our fisheries will be, if in fact this does becomes a reality!

This thread is not meant to prove which side is right or wrong, it's only meant to make us think what our alternatives and options are if our wild fish recovery efforts fails. Please don't attack any other members who answers may differ from yours. This is just a thread that will allow everyone to see what others may think the "alternatives" may be. Let's see all the science, thoughts, and any other options that may be out there. Like it or not, If the wild fish recovery don't make it, we will need some other options! Better to discuss them now instead of later!

Thanks ahead of time, and please, no personal attacks on anyone suggestions. If a suggestion is bad, please explain why you believe that it is a bad one.

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

If our post-wild fish are anything like the Wind River springers or the Lewis River summer steelies we'll get along just fine, thank you.

Just reading that sent chills down my back, That really would be dooms day. I would loose all my sense if all the wild fish were gone.

Fishing for hatchery punes with no wild chrome... Might as well dam every river and sell whats left to the indians. Wild Steel is were it all began. I wish there were no hatcheries and loads of fish...dream on

Honestly, I would move to Alaska. They can come back. there are rivers that are doing it right now. These rivers were decimated to nothing then forgoten about. Im not gonna name them as they dont need a bunch of people fishing them but they can have spectactular wild steelhead fishing and from the recent reports ive gotten one of them is better than any of the OP rivers right now. And gues what hardly anybody is fishin it because people dont think the wild ones exist anymore.

One of them is near you Cowlitzfisherman.

Heres an idea how about we take all the hatchery smolts and place them in varios feeder streams on rivers as soon as they hatch so they grow up in the wild and maybe if we are lucky they will take on the characteristics of a native fish. Not the same but atleast there will be naturally spawning fish in our rivesrs again. just my two lincolns worth

What if this, what if that...how about we be a little optimistic, put some serious hardwork, time and energy and maybe a even a little sacrifice into saving our native/wild salmonids populations.

How about we put the fish first?...If we do, in the end, we will come out winners!

I know that last comment was corney...sorry!

The free spawning fish would eventually become that river's native wild fish. They would eventually develop characteristics that would set them apart from other rivers. Granted, they would always share some, as all steelhead do now.

I guess I am as concerned about the preservation of the health of a river as I am with the preservation of a true "native" run that goes back before whites arrived. To me protecting the health of a river is also protecting the health of our open spaces and forests and water quality, you know, tree huggin crap.

Mainly saying= death of the last wild fish is a [Bleeeeep!] up on our part, we would have, at that point, [Bleeeeep!] off. But even if we destroyed all fish for 4 years, fish would come, oh yes they would come, they wouldnt know why, but they would come. A yearning in them would pull them here. They would come and they would pay, pay to watch basebal... er...... um......

I hope that someone would figure out why they went away or possibly we are like what that guy in "The Matrix" said: "We are not mammals, every other mammal develops an equalibrium with it's enviroment".

Gee, Wally there is so much land.

Fish for bass. j/k

Brood stock/hatchery's/brood stock/hatchery's////
C-n-R.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE
P.S. Ban all net's

Become an Canadian citizen and move to Smithers BC
A State without wild steelhead is not worth living in. Spend a year fishing the Washougal and the East lewis and you'll soon agree

Robert Allen --- I have to disagree. I can't speak for the Washougal, but I have fished the north and east forks of the Lewis River since 1960 (hmmmm, that's 42 years!).

Our fishing today is as good, and in many ways better, than at any time in all those years on those rivers. Winter steelhead are down somewhat on both forks as are springers, for sure. Summer steelhead though are 10-fold better, and coho are every bit as good as I've ever seen.

Fall chinook this year on the North Fork will be more plentiful than at any time in the last 11 years. These are not my numbers --- they are publications of the F@W departments of Oregon and Washington.

Even generalizing to the Columbia as a whole finds good fishing when compared with historical levels of runs. This fall we will see the third highest run of fall chinook entering the Columbia since 1948 --- that run will be the highest in 12 years. Even the lowered estimate for Columbia River coho this fall will be the fourth highest in 12 years.

All this doesn't even take into account last year's record runs of both fall chinook and coho, and that includes the highest numbers of returning coho on the Lewis that any of us have ever seen. And the number of fall chinook and coho seen on the east fork Lewis this year was really encouraging.

It is easy to gripe about the "decline" in fishing. But it just ain't so. These are the "good old days".

Thumper, I fish Columbia tribs and you couldn't be more correct! The last five years for the rivers I fish have been DYNOMITE!

The Silver numbers...well you already know about that. And summer run Steelhead well heck you know all about that to!

FJ...out.

Thumper I said nothing about the quality of fishing opportunities.
I said the number of WILD steelhead...

As a fly angler I can do ok on summer fish. but relying on hatchery fish for winter steelhead flyfishing absolutely sucks!!!
I put in about 15 days of fly fishing on th East Lewis and Washoudal this winter, I caught exactly one fish and guess what it was a wild fish.
Having lots of hatchery fish means absolutely nothing to me without wild steelhead to me a river is useless.
As for the Washougal It is absolutely nothing compared to what it used to be and I can't imagine the East Fork is any better that in was either but I just started fishing it 3 years ago..
I have been fishing the Washougal however for about 20 years having grown up on it's banks and I can say as an expert ong the river, compared to the 1980's it absolutely sucks!! When was the last time anyone you know had a 10 fish day there lately??? they were pretty common for me when I was a kid.

As for Salmon on the Washougal the hatchery needs to be closed ASAP or at least eliminate the Chinook program. The Washougal chinook fishery is 100% a snagging fishery!!!

The East Lewis in my opinion is a poor fishery and does not provide a quality experience. Sure you can go there and catch some fish. But it is almost entirely a combat fishing situation unless you have a boat.
Thoes stupid chambers creek fish only hold in certain holes leaving the rest of the river vacant to me although there are plenty of fish it's not an enjoyable fishery.

I'm with RA3 ... can you say dual-citizenship?? Kamchatka?? Can I get triple-citizenship???

Oh yeah, I'd say I told you so on my way to my new home :p

I've dreamed about Kamchatka ever since I saw Soveral give a presentation at a FFF show many years back.

One can only dream...

Robert, Robert, Robert ---- Maybe you need to switch from fly-fishing to something that works....like bobbers and jigs. Honest, there are a ton of fish out there. We got three wild fish over 20 pounds last spring alone just at Daybreak Park, all within a week. Is it possible that you are just not fishing??

Thumper I bet thoes were the only 3 wild fish you caught all year too. For the past 3 winters I have put in an average of about 30 days per winter On the East Fork and Washougal combined , Mostly on the East Fork I have caught 1 fish on a fly and it was a wild fish. last year I spent exactly 2 days on the Hoh with the same result as 60 days locally. Likewise the year before in 5 days on the Sauk I caught 1 fish. Fly fishing works for steelhead Just not the lethargic chmbers creek fish they put in the East lewis that gang up in 5 or 6 pools that are accessible by foot which are full of gear fishermen. I am not denying that there are good numbers of hatchery fish there they do not however provide a quality experience!

The chambers creek fish hold in the following pools
Under the daybreak bridge, The powerline run, The Arabs hole and a couple of the high banked pools and a couple spots in lewisville park. Thats it for bank fishermen. The East Lewis used to provide that it no longer does. the wild fish population is in the low hundreds and there are literally more fishermen than fish.
For me a quality experience involves fish that will respond to a fly and in conditions where I can find a little elbow room. That is why I'd leave my beloved State and move to BC.
And that is why I don't like fishing the East Lewis

As a fly/jig/spinner fisherman, I gotta say Thumper, better come down off that soap box before a good fly fisherman knocks you off. Sure, you can catch more fish in more places with floats, but in the right place and time, a fly can be fished as well. I had a slow day on Oregon's North Coast last winter when I fished float/jig 8 hours with no success. Fished 2 with the fly and landed a 10 pound native. My 8 weight saved the day. This fall on the Deschutes, I did better with flies than spinners. The conditions do have to be right, but it works! I usually save a few ideal holes for the fly rod when fishing for winter nates. Guess what...I have about the same success ratios with either technique! Of course, there are many holes that you just cannot fish well with a fly, so a good fly fisherman has to select his water carefully.
As for the idea that we're going to lose all our wild steelhead......Here we go again! Isn't this fun!? Anyone out there tired of this one? Maybe we're lucky here in beaverland. Still lots of nates, although the mid 90's were really scary. My home river, the Clackamas had a return over Rivermill dam in '96 or '97 of 122 wild winter steelhead after averaging 1000 to 2000 in the '70's and '80's. ODFW then discontinued planting hatchery trout and steelhead in the upper river. Since then, it's been rebounding slowly. I think last year, there were about 800 wild fish over the dams. On the North Coast, oh man! These are the good ole' days! I've not been skunked in my last 8 or 10 trips going back to 2000. Lots of nates, many big nates. Of course, I target wild fish, so I'm fishing rivers that are known for their native fish and in some cases (Trask, Nehalem), are managed by ODFW for wild steelhead. More power to ODFW! Great fishing in February and March and those fish don't cost taxpayers a dirty dime! Fight twice as hard as brats too. That's all from me tonight.

Wild Chrome I am not trying to be on any soapbox. Robert Allen says that fishing on the East Lewis sucks with his fly rod, and I maintain that it has been fantastic with a bobber rod. Maybe the difference is in the technique, not in the number of fish. That's all. If fly fishing doesn't work when gear fishing does, I can't see how one can blame the fish!

Actually I don't target natives. Seems kinda cruel. I prefer to eat the ones I catch, not just hassle/release them. Fishing on the East Fork Lewis has been great. I love hatchery fish!