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#152044 - 05/26/02 10:44 PM Re: Your gonna love this!
Big Jim Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/07/00
Posts: 424
Loc: Tacoma, Wa. USA
Did I miss read this, direct quote from all treaties in WA. The above tribe is desirous to exclude from its reservation the use of ardent spirits, and to prevent its people from drinking the same, and therefore it is provided that any Indian belonging thereto who shall be guilty of bringing liquor into said reservation, or who drinks liquor, may have his or her proportion of the annuities withheld from him or her for such time as the President may determine. Next, The said tribe finally agrees not to trade at Vancouver's Island or elsewhere out of the dominions of the United States, nor shall foreign Indians be permitted to reside in its reservation without consent of the superintendent or agent. To me this sounds like the tribes already broke the treaty. Having worked at the Emerald Queen I know that some tribes bring booze into the reservation. And now they want the Feds to set up an international market for them. Treaty says the tribe can't do that. It seems that the tribes can work around any part of the treaty they want if it hinders them, so why not the Feds? I am in support of the Casino, and how it helps the tribe. They are many Tribal members who work there, and do a great job. But I am not in support of the out dated treaty. Oh, no where did I see a Article allowing gaming on the res.
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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

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#152045 - 05/26/02 11:00 PM Re: Your gonna love this!
Easy Limits Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2991
Loc: Nisqually
Might as well forget about it. This is a dead horse that had been beaten several times. Just a matter of time before BOB boots it off the forum. We all feel the same way and there is nothing we can do about it. mad
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#152046 - 05/27/02 01:34 AM Re: Your gonna love this!
fishingtoo Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 101
The Puyallup tribe makes for an easy target with the riches they are now getting from gaming. But they are by far the exception, not the rule. Ya think they all have easy lives & free money, go to most any reservation across this country. Average life spans a decade or more less than average U.S., child birth mortality rates that rival the poorest of third world countries, rampant diabetes etc. My son's a fireman in AK in a mostly native communtity. Up there the fireman call winter the "killing season" because they have to handle so many native suicides, mostly teenagers over the despair & hopelessness & it's just a small city. I'm no differnt than the rest of ya, I get upset about there special fishing rights too, but they wer egranted treaty rights & do you really think you would rather be in any of there shoes? Get past the headlines of just a few isolated tribes that are doing great.

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#152047 - 05/27/02 05:48 PM Re: Your gonna love this!
diego Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 6
Loc: Olympia
Speaking of spending on fishery programs...

I have no idea what kind of money the Muckleshoots spend on their fisheries program, but I would assume that tribe's with succesful casinos spend a smaller percentage of their overall budgets on fisheries, for the simple reason of there being more money to spend in other places. But, I do know that all tribes in western Washington with treaty rights have fisheries programs, all have enforcement officers and most have hatcheries.

http://www.tulalip.nsn.us/

http://www.pnptc.org/

And simply to compare the Muckleshoots to the State of Washington: Its been said that the tribe only spends 1 percent on fisheries, while the state of Washington only spends 3 percent of its overall budget on environmental programs! The Mukleshoots co-manage the fisheries in a very finite area, roughly Lake Washington and the Duwamish system. While the state of Washington covers, well, the state. The state's environmental spending also funds WDFW, DNR, DOE, among others (and, only DFW can be considered "fisheries"). People who pay taxes to a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

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#152048 - 05/30/02 01:38 AM Re: Your gonna love this!
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Diego,

Here's the stuff I was referring to above...

...

LEGAL PRINCIPLES ESTABLISHED IN PRIOR CASES

...

2. Size of Shares. As to those runs that are subject to allocation at all, the maximum share of the treaty Indians is 50% of the harvestable portion of the run which passes through its customary fishing grounds. The treaty Indians are entitled only to a smaller portion, if such a portion is sufficient to provide the treaty Indians a moderate living. Passenger Fishing Vessel, 443 U.S. at 686-687, 99 S. Ct. at 3074-3075. The burden is on the State to show that some share less than 50% would be sufficient to provide the Indians a moderate living. U.S. v. Washington (Phase II), 506 F. Supp. 187, 208 (W.D. Wash. 1980) (appeal denied).

U.S. v. Washington, 626 F.Supp. 1405, 1429 (W.D. Wash. 1985).

It hasn't been litigated as to the exact interpretation of the above statement, but it is generally accepted that "moderate living" includes all income, not just that from fishing.

The states have not tried to reduce tribal allocations through this holding yet, but tribal gaming seems like the best bet I've ever heard of for giving it a shot. I guess we'll have to just wait and see if it ever happens, or what will happen if the states try.

Fish on...

Todd.
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#152049 - 06/01/02 04:26 PM Re: Your gonna love this!
Hey Yall Watch This Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 452
Loc: Olympia....beeyotch
Call me a 'conspiracy theorist' but I see a more distinct pattern on the way with these payouts for the Puyallups. All I ask is to look at it objectively:

What happens if you breed out the Native American tribes? Will the guy 200 years from now that is 1/64 Puyallup ethnic background be allowed all these treaty rights? It would be hard to justify in my opinion.

Now an increase from $300 to $2000 is a buttload per month raise for doing nothing, if you are a single tribesman.

Now factor in the children that will be fired out the oven like hot biscuits now that the parent(s) can get an extra $3600per year X 18years (or 21 years)= $64,800 just for having a kid. Tax free.

Now when the kid hits 'adulthood' his check is roughly going to be $35,700 give or take, then he will start to receive $2,000 a month just for himself......but if he starts breedin'. CHA-CHING.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing and it's a crafty way to keep your tribe going. From a sportsman's point-of-view it just means the nets will never never never never never never eeeeeeeeeever leave those rivers, and the deer, elk, etc. see ya.

In my opinion, this is going to be short term. It's a quick way to boost your tribe's population, but what happens if it boosts too quickly and you cannot pay out those $2,000 checks per month per person 50 years from now?

Exactly, kiss your tax dollars good-bye pale faces, black butts, rednecks, etc. because they will need 'help' again. mad
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