What research, and who did it? Conservative pilgrams like yourself? Read the porn industry forums, dude. I'm sure there are exceptions, but most of the women will tell you strait up, they are there because they love sex and they have chosen to shed the conservative female sterio type. I've read many threads by women on this topic and can't remember one in which the concensis of opinion (among females) wasn't resentment toward those like you spouting the BS above.

Who said the woman was being victimized at the point of transaction? or as an adult? I said prior to their entry into porn. Events in thier childhood involving men lead them to porn. It is their way of gaining some measure of control over men. Reversing the roles they played as young women. Only a moron would say it is about sex or money. The end result is almost never the reason and perceptiuon is rarely reality.

I'll buy that, Aunty. Bottom line is they are exercising their own free will. Victimized people do not. Someone who is robbed, assaulted or raped is victimized. Big difference.

Guys like TK, ISO, my dad, my father-in-law, etc., are of 1960's mentality, where women are expected to be submisive to man's sexual advances, and a woman that deviates from that and is outwardly sexual is deemed a threat to their masculinity. I'm guessing men like this NEED an oppresive perspective toward women to function in the bedroom.

Men/boys who are sexualized by porn are or were typically incapable of forming a normal sexual relationship with a female in their teenage years. Some were forced becaue of their looks or socical status. They continue this into adulthood. After marriage they are emotionally incapable of dealing with thier desires with their spouse so continue a fantasy life via porn and even prostitutes or extra marital affairs. Grown ups are able to relate their needs wants and desires to their partner or spouse in open and hoinest dialog and come to some forms of terms or agreement in a healthy relationship. Most marry the goody two shoes required by their paternal or maternal, societal reltionships but secretly desire the slut forbidden by thier upbringing or percieved stautus in their community. They cannot relate or resolve this conflict so they continue their childish habits. Viscous circle of justification and deception.

That makes some sence as does your previous statement, and I'll buy it in some cases, but not as a black and white end-all explaination. Same goes for my statements. The world is full of shades of grey, not black and white.

"Sol, if prostitution were legal and controlled, there would be fewer divorces and damn sure fewer serious "sex" crimes for losers that have no opportunity for normal sexual relations. Also, fewer visits to farm animals in Fall City or Enumclaw or wherever"

One needs to read up on what goes on where it is legal. BC, European nations, Nevada etc.

Perception is not reality.

I do not disagree.

I've discussed many of these points with friends before. Most I know,myself included, feel that our religious upbringing toaught us sex was dirty. It also taught me that woman did not enjoy or want sex. It took a bit to learn that this was wrong. I am very sexually healthy now. I don't believe that porn is as negative to most people's sexuality as many brands of religion are.
Stay Theo,
cds

Sal

"Most I know,myself included, feel that our religious upbringing toaught us sex was dirty."

That is an excuse for not thinking for yourself. You nor no one can show where the bible makes sex dirty or demeans womens sexuality. If you think you heard a minister say go jump off a cliff to test the theory of gravity would you have done it? Or would you have gone a looked into a little more before you made a final judgement and taken action? Seems it is appropraite to lay off negatives on the church and parents but all the good is ones own doing in this society.

Perception is reality. I cannot go back to my childhood again and see through those eyes again. I have spoken to many others who report the same history. I am now thinking for myself because as an adult I can better than I could as a child. I do believe that my Catholic upbringing hurt my sexual development and taught me lessons that I feel were negative. I don't believe it was intentional on the church's part.
At the end of the day I think porn would not be as big without religion and religion not as big without porn.
I am not blaming anyone for anything I am telling a story. A story I lived.
This history informs my decisions now, and how I raise my child.
come back Theo,
cds

I didn't have much religious indoctrination as a kid and have never thought of sex as being "dirty." And I have no problems with porn. If somebody gets off on porn, go for it! Who cares?

Same way with religion. I'm not superstitious myself, but if somebody gets off on religion, go for it! Just keep it private and don't inflict it on the rest of the world.

I do wonder what's going on when men have a need to share their porn with other men. I don't get it. Why would a guy want to show his porn to other guys?

Even better if it is an excuse that everyone will buy off on. Just because most people buy off on it does not make it valid. I think the law holds that ignorance is no excuse for a reason. It is not!

Excuse for what?

Sex is not morally wrong in the bible murder is. Its not hard to look it up and verify it. I bet there are more bibles around than science books or books on law. But it's easier to go with the excuse "it's what I was taught." I bet most did not buy into the lie that jerking off would make you go blind. Seems convenient to debunk one teaching out of hand(pun intended) and hold onto the other for a large portion of your life. Not if the intent is to pander to the bible bashing crowd.

Don't speak to my intent. I can do that myself. Thanks.
As I said perception is reality. Also I was speaking of my childhood/ teenage years. I don't think that you can hold a child to the same standard. Like I said, once I learned that woman could be desirous of sex and that was normal Things were better. The picture that I had in my head of normal sexual relations as a "kid" are far different than what I feel normal or positive is today. The major reason for this, is experience with sex and that I am no longer a practicing Catholic. That is my perception and therefore reality. It is also a reality I share with many others. I am not embarrased of it because I feel it is logical. The virgin Mary, Forbiddden fruit, Asexual Preists as Role models no premarital sex ( sin), all these facets of Catholicism can be and are hard for many boys when they begin to become interested in sex.
I think they lead to the need for porn to show that sex is fun, enjoyable and OK if there is nothing else to do it. I am not sure how much sense I am making, but I do know my life history. It sure would have gone better for me and I feel healthier if there weren't church involved. As I said church is good for the porn industry. Porn is also good for the church industry.
I have faith in Theo,
cds

I am also a recovering Catholic and still have feelings of rejection because none of the priests tried to molest me.

"All subject to interpretation"

Look it up first before you use an excuse backed up by another excuse for ignorance.

In no case does this type of excuse fly except in the case of bashing religon or the bible.

TK, I'm glad to hear that you are liberated enough to accept "interpretation" as "flying" for bashing "religon" (whatever that is) and the bible. I thought you were a big time Christian, the bible as the inerrant word of God (whatever that is) and all that.

New International Version? What the hell! If the King James version was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me!

My feet are getting hot then.