grandpa

Where?

We are just behind you!

Cowlitzfisherman

Herm, your statement about Gore being President we wouldn't have this problem was the best entertainment I have heard in a long while. If he was president, we would have continued to do nothing after 9/11, just like the two idiots Clinotn and Gore did for 8 years. This country was attacked 5 times when they were in office and we did absolutely nothing. Gore would have most likely invited Bin Laden to the White House for dinnner if he could have gotten any money out of it. You friends Clinton and Gore and their cronies did everything they could to destroy the military, FBI as well as the CIA .

P.S. Can you get your friend Al Gore to fix the internet, the newest virus is causing problems.

Herm, your statement about Gore being President we wouldn't have this problem was the best entertainment I have heard in a long while. If he was president, we would have continued to do nothing after 9/11, just like the two idiots Clinotn and Gore did for 8 years. This country was attacked 5 times when they were in office and we did absolutely nothing. Gore would have most likely invited Bin Laden to the White House for dinnner if he could have gotten any money out of it. You friends Clinton and Gore and their cronies did everything they could to destroy the military, FBI as well as the CIA .

P.S. Can you get your friend Al Gore to fix the internet, the newest virus is causing problems.

CFM,

I believe that you missed my point. The senate resolution supporting military action was just that. A RESOLUTION! It wasn't a law mandating that we HAVE to go to war, it's more of a formality, showing unity and support.

I'm not specifically against war with Iraq, nor am I expressing an opinion on whether I think GW made his case for war or not. The main issue I have with these political discussions is how emotional opinions get presented as fact, and tempers begin to flare.

Your post that I responded to had that air of indignance and self-righteousness. "I can't believe some of you guys" was the direct quote I believe.

It is PLAINLY obvious that most who responded to this thread adhere deeply to their beliefs as to what the proper course of action to take is, and not a lot of mind-changing is going to happen.

WHAT?????

Where did I insinuate that? See what I mean, you're banging the drum so loudly you didn't hear a word I said!


note to self: NEVER enter into political discussions on the internet...

lugnutt06!

I agree with you!

Sorry you didn't realize I was being facisious!(sp)-(making an obviously ridiculous statement)

I don't know if anybody has answer to this, I'm pretty well convinced sadam has the weapons, and that if we attack him he will use them.

What is the answer?


herm

Well, technically (and realistically), they don't have a choice. They go because they signed a contract stating they'd obey the orders of those appointed over them. To not obey those orders means jail time and loss of pay.

The Armed Forces are made up of people just like you and me; they all have varying opinions on what the leadership of this country is thinking. That includes the Commander in Chief. Some think the President is right, some think he's wrong. I'll guarantee you that there are just as many troops not wanting to go as do want to go.

This isn't some kind of sporting event where everyone on the team is just itching to play. This is real life bullet to the head, your dead stuff. There's no "do over," no second chance. Remember during Viet Nam when soldiers were asking, "What the hell are we doing here?" It hasn't changed. Troops today ask the same question. That's why it is so vitally important for Bush to have solid proof that we need to be there. This is not going to be a quick in and out war like last time. Look at Afganistan; we're still there a year and a half later.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is "supporting our troops." I've read a lot of posts from those agreeing to wage war proudly state they support our troops. Exactly how are you supporting them? Sitting safe and cozy in front of you computer ain't supporting squat. Just because you agree with Bush's plan doesn't support our troops one ioda. Little Johnny Snot sitting in that foxhole couldn't care any less whether you agree with Bush or not. Waving a flag and thumpin' your chest doesn't get him out of that foxhole or stop the bullets from flying at him.

If you're serious about supporting the Armed Forces, start getting some care-packages together to send to those deployed. Donate blood (they're gonna need a lot of that); volunteer at your local military installation or USO; find a way to help out a family whose spouse is deployed. Pray that we can end this without a shot being fired and everyone comes home alive.

That is supporting the troops.

Lil Fish

I'm not surprised that you would disagree after reading your posts. All I am saying is that we have a right to form our own opinions using facts not propaganda or lies. Life and death decisions should be based on fact's not some media spin generated to benifit big business and not us average Joes. Lets face it, CNN, Fox, MSNBC and the other tools of propaganda that saturate our lives makes it hard to be an independent thinkers. I find that my morals and values are often challenged by these talking heads that tell me who and what to hate and how soon to kill, without consideration for my spiritual needs to do the right thing by my fellow man. All human life is sacred. I refuse to support the killing of so many innocent people on the premise that it will prevent innocent people from being killed here. Just doen't make sense. Innocent Human life has the same value no matter where you find it on this planet. I hate to see human misery and suffering where ever it is found on this planet.
I believe that, what goes around comes around and we don't need all that bad Karma.

Go Harley

Thank you for your clear understanding and consideration. That was an excellent post.

John Lee

I find it ironic that you endorse stlhd's post when it is full of propeganda. He stated that the U.S. is going in "almost alone", He stated that this is a premptive strike (we have essentially been at war with them for 12 years) and that we are ignoring the U.N. all of which are at the least distorted, if not flat out lies.

Let's go fishing!!!

Vic

I am very comfortable with my thinking concerning this discussion. I guess the talking heads ( the Media ) you listen to and believe, leds you to think that my position has to be wrong. It's amazing how they ( the media ) can convence some that s**t smells just like a Rose. Myself, when I smell s**t, I don't pretend that it's cotton candy. I say it stinks and try to avoid stepping in it and will resist being pushed into it.

I've been watching this board for 2 years and as you can see I don't post much, but some of the comments on this subject make me want to express my views.

First of all let's talk about ph****** Republicans and there contribution to this country. I retired 10 years ago and since then our military has been reduced by over 600,000 troops. To quantify- From 20 Fighter Wings down to 10 - a 600 ship Navy to less than 400- Army divisions have taken the same kind of cuts. !0 years ago a 2 front war was possible probably not now. (Kosovo/Afganistan do not compare to Iraq and N. Korea)It isn't the Republicans who say we can't afford a strong military

For those who think we failed when Sadam wasn't killed in 91- you are wrong - As some have said ,- it was never an objective of Desert Storm. Look up Nat Security Directive 54 and you will see a clear statement of the objectives and by definition what constitutes VICTORY. For those who want to compare Iraq to Viet Nam- Find me what our clear cut objectives were. Yes I was there -1963 and 1969. That doesn"t make me an expert,but I wasn't a casual observer either.

Nobody wants "innocent people" to die -whatever that means. When did collateral damage ie "innocent people" become the measure of right and wrong. It sure wasn't in WWII when we firebombed Japan and the allies Flattened cities in Germany and the Germans Fired Buzz Bombs at London. I'm not sure collateral damage was an issue in Korea.

Television changed how we look at war and w we could really see how horrible it is in real time. Desert Storm ended not when we had annilated the Republican Gaurd But when people around the world watched bodies lying on the "highway of death "coming out of Kuwait City. 24 hours more of those scenes and the coalition would have come apart in my opion.

For those who don't think the case has been made that Saddam has weapons of Mass destruction - What if he does- he WILL use them- he has before.

For those who don't believe in war- let me say as long as ther are" HAVES" and "HAVE NOTS" AND /OR RELIGION thjere will be conflict. Name one armed conflict that wasn't rooted in this basic premise.

I offer these comments not as an expert but one who has been involved and one who believes we are at war now. Terorist are real and they want to do us harm. I want to kill the Bast**** before they can hurt my 3 granddaughters and my grandson. My oldest son is a fireman who was at the WTC as part of a search and rescue team- I don't want him to do that again.

This is a great board and Bob does us all a great service by letting us vent. I'D RATHER TALK ABOUT THE 2 STEELHEAD AND THE 3 DOLLIES CAUGHT AND RELEASED MON/TUES OF THIS WK.

Please turn on your TV to the Discovery Channel RIGHT NOW!

Very interesting show on about the Gulf War and all the bad things that have happened since then with So-dam-insane.

Great post there Stlhead!

You pretty much nailed it.

I'll only add, that you won't find the children of the folks beating the war drums most loudly, on the front lines.

No doubt Saddam is an evil dude, but isn't it kind of funny that in the 1980's during the war with Iran, that when he was massacring Iranians with the weapons we armed him with, he was OUR dude?

The time for inspecting is definiately over. This time we need to overthrough their goverment.I guess he'll finish what daddy started. J.C.B

John,
I should have been more specific in responding to your earlier post. In disagreeing I meant that I don't think you can say Stlhds' opinions reflect majority opinion in this country. Although I agree that a peaceful solution is best I don't think that is always possible.
JMS

I say we just get the heck out of the middle east and let them kill each other. Like they are doing now.

After all, if the US is such a bad place why are they all moving here?

Here is the solution that I think is the way to get everyone to agree. The U.S. removes all it's Military out of the middle east with this one exception. Instead of paying the costs of bringing everything home, we drop it off in Isreal. We tell all the Muslim middle east countries that we are done except we are backing and defending Isreal to the hilt. Any act of aggression onto Isreal is an act of war onto the United States no if's, and's, or but's.

Nebb,

I think you make a point but we can't trust Israel to do the right thing. Leaving it to Israel in the middle East would start The war of
the ages. I can see all those weapons used on a daily basis in the news( not in the US)blowing up innocent Palistinians while in their homes. Attacked with rocket's while they sleep because, there could be a terrrist somewhere in their neighborhood. I see Israel acting more like racist in that region. Leaving them in charge is sorta like leaving the KKK in charge of managing "The Civil Rights Bill" here in America and buying the rope for them to hang blacks who asks that it be implemented.

Why not let them be accountable for their action without us having to pay a price? It's time that we consider the Palistanian Homeland Issue with truth and reason and not let Israel run our foreign policy. Like I said earlier, this would be political suicide because of the hugh influence that Israel has in our goverment.

That's the elephant that's taking a crap at the dinner table and nobody can say anything. Man that's scary!