What do you all think about these fly fishing schools these fly shop owners and some of the Metro area Fly guides put on, on the rivers near you?

I think I dont like it much.

In my opinion this is nothing like the normal guide doing trips this is something totally different. Its the mass selling of information and confidence. I gues you could say its more Bucks for the Bang for the guys putting these things on.

Instead of a guide doing a trip each day for three days and makeing 900.00 they have 50 guys for three days 300.00 each for a total of 15,000 bucks in three days. Wow thats alot of money. I dont knoe if they really amke that much but if they do than Wow!!!!

I don't like it eather and hope I don't see this on my home river


L J

I havent seen or heard of it Rich...what's goin on?

Kinda sounds like they found a way to pack more people on the river and make themselves quite a bit of loot...is that whats goin on?

This Kind of thing has been going on for years nothin new.

I dont want to start anything I just whant to know what poeple think about it.

Well if I hear you right? These guys from the Seattle area bring out about 50 people to an Oly pen river to teach them how to fly fish? I would think this would be oever exploiting certain rivers. I don't see why they cant do the lessons at the big lake in a prk or somewhere wher th impact wouldn't be to much? It sounds like there is a legitimate concern. I have had to work pretty har to find places to fish, and these people get taken to prime waters right off? Doesn't sound good.
Buck

don't bother me at all, 50 fly guys won't catch as many steelies as 1 guy with good knowledge of his river,a good drift boat, 2 good companions and 3 metallic pink tadpollys!

Heard of "fly fishing classes"; never heard of this though.

Personally I like fly fishermen. I wish more people would convert to fly fishing for winter runs (springers too, ha ha!).

Although they can take up a lot of bank space on a good drift, I find winter steelhead fly fishermen to be rather innocuous and harmless...

...kind 'a like the fish usually do...

What you don't know won't hurt you

Rich, I know what your talking about and I personally don't like it, especially because it seems like commercialization of a public river. But not to sound to snotty I guess I'd rather take that then the mass expansion of guides on the OP fishing their "dudes" below 101 and whackin' wild fish.

Your right Double Haul,

I gues its just a nother way to make money and I definately could think of worse things.

Rich, I am not familiar with the situation of "mass education" you are referring to, but I do not think it is a bad thing for many reasons. First, let me just state that I am currently taking a class in environmentalism from the Mountaineers here in Seattle, that is changing (or broadening) my outlook on many outdoors-related topics. Second, I am a fly fisherman. So take this with a grain of salt.

From a personal viewpoint, if I can learn some secrets "on the water," I am going to do so. A guide may be the best option, and also a more pleasant way to learn than group-grope. However, guides are about catching fish, not teaching (on the whole). So, if I wanted to learn some tricks to start catching fish as quickly as possible, a class may be my best option. How did you learn? Maybe someone taught you or you spent days and weeks of trial and error, but not all are so fortunate to have the time and access you do.

From a broader perspective (environmental hat on here), the more people who get out and ENJOY the environment, the more apt they are to give a **** and to try and save it. It may make for more crowded fishing conditions in the short term, but better and more healthy fisheries in the long-term. The idea of "its mine mine mine" just doesn't do much good for anyone. Least of all, the fish.

As for "profiting" from a public resource, puh-leeze. A class may bring in more per day than a guide, but the guide is no less guilty of profiting from a public resource. Again, the broader viewpoint has to be that the more who fish and care about the resource, the better off the resource will be.

Good fishing to you.

Eddy

I see some of the points.

Maybe they arnt such a bad thing. More people are being educated in a conservative manor, (fly fisherman are more conservative by nature). Better a fly fishing class than a plunking class I gues.

The downside I see to it is that it brings alot of presure but I gues thats a bit of a selfish attitude.

Like you said everyone is looking for a shortcutt and you cant blame a guy for taking advantage of it since its offered.

I still cant say that the idea makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

Hey Rich,

I believe it is one guide in particular that offers these classes. From what I know of them, it's more like 15 anglers, not 50. I believe that the main emphasis is more on reading water, casting techniques, lines and flies etc... not "limiting out" catching fish.

I would bet that the people who take these classes already fish the rivers that the classes are held on, and are just looking for a way to fine-tune their technique, and maybe have a bit more success when they venture out on their own.

I say what the heck, If the guide happens to make more money doing this, more power to him. I would MUCH rather see 15 conscientious anglers on the rivers that I fish, than 2 or 3 guys breaking the rules to suit their needs.

A little bit different than what you are talking about is a shady deal that goes on here in Idaho. In order to be a guide on a river you have to have a permit. There are only so many for each river. Some rivers do not allow guiding at all. But say a fly shop owner was to take a couple guys to this restricted river for a "fly fishing lesson"... That just happened to last all day and cost around 400 bucks, snacks included of course !!! happens all the time.

Yes, my favorite Subject! I'll get in trouble with Jerry G.

Rich G,
You don't need to feel like it is selfish to question this mass group fly fishing thing taking place on our rivers. Those who sponsor such commercial ventures are quick to call those who question thier work habits, selfish. But is it not selfish to bring 6 to 10 people down a river all at once, set all of them up at each run till the float ends. Fly fishing runs are limited on our steelhead rivers and through tradition they have been at least somewhat rested between each drift boat down river. There are many who do not go to internet sites who fish and do not check out what rivers these classes are taking place. To wait all week in anticipation of a great day on the river only to have to fish runs that have been hit overly hard could and has ruined many fishermens day. The complaints are growing everywhere.

For those who feel the classes help them become better steelhead fishermen and that short cuts are the answer. I ask you this. How many of the truely good steelhead fly fishermen that quietly and traditionally fish the our rivers from BC to N. CA have ever had a how to class? I don't know any that have but maybe there are some.

As far as short cuts go there are no short cuts in learning to become a good steelhead fly fisherman. It is a life long process that is based all most entirely on time on the river, the awareness and instinct you are able to develope. Learning in a school to hold your fly rod a certain way and how to swing a fly a certain way or pointing out holding water is more likely to hurt your growth with pre concieved notions. Monkey see monkey do and growth stops before it ever got started.

If your new to steelhead fly fishing you are going to have spend time on a river like all had to do before day of the schools began. Over time you will find that mentor, but it takes time. If he is good he will never teach you how to, he will guide and encourage your own personal growth in the same fashion he was mentored when he was new to the art of fly fishing for steelhead. It is wonderful experience and there is a mentor for everyone if you don't try and take short cuts that will not work in the long run. Steelhead fishing takes time no matter how you fish for them. If you don't have the time it may not be a good match for you and for sure you are kidding yourself that your gonna get better. Maybe lucky once in awhile.
The tradition of steelheading is endangered in many ways and if you got the time on the river please be a mentor to someone new. This group touchy feely thing should not be happening.
Thanks for reading my ramble.

Now now Tuna Fish---- How about a BIG hug

You are soo right. We should instead encourage these folks who are trying to learn a little more about fly fishing for steelhead to stop wasting there time and energy on the classes and just go straight to gear and bait fishing. And heck, even then it's still hard - so just hand them some trebble hooks and let them snagg the fish. Fly fishing is much too hard for those weak minded folks looking for short cuts.
Seriously, you should ask yourself 'who is taking these classes?" I think you'll find a lot of them are either completely new to fishing, trying to convert from conventional gear fishing, and\or have full time jobs and families, so time on the water is very limitted. They proberly don't have asperations to become one of your legendary NW hard core steelheaders and 99% will probably never even become reasonable good steelheaders. But what can it hurt to have more people interested in C&R and protecting wild steelhead and their environment? I bet many of those who attend those classes are voters.
Besides, are you really concerned about some cracker taking your favorite fishing hole? If you are really good, you know that by resting the water after the guy stops thrashing with his fly rod, that you can pick up the steelie that he has not been able to get his fly to. And those classes usually get on the water later than the serious fishing crowd and travel a lot slower. Either you stay ahead of them, or you quickly pass them up. And as 4Salt pointed out, the classes aren't aimed at getting into fish - if that's all the students wanted, they could spend about the same amount of money and hire the guide for a more personalized trip.

By the way, where do I find this list of the famous and 'really good' steelheaders? Apparenlty steelheading ins't about the numbers, its about impressing the right people?

Anyway, I don't mean to offend - just giving my .02 cents...

Wow, good topic...convinced me to finally register so that I could toss in my .02. So first off I would like to say thanks for having me aboard...I go by drewski on the other board, but since that name was already taken plain drew will have to do. to the point...


I can see your concerns, but I must tell you that your worries are a little pre determined. I have done one of these classes( 150 bucks, six anglers per class). Secondly, the most stressed topic of the day was conservation of our natural resources. If any steelhead was caught that wasn't a brat it was released carefully to fulfill its cycle further up river.

The point that these classes flood rivers with access anglers isnt exactly accurate because we proceeded very slowly down river and stayed out of everyones way.

As for taking all the fish out of the river...I got 0

Folks,

I know a lot of the guys doing these classes - they're good friends of mine. A couple of thoughts -

None of these guys are taking these classes to their best, secret holes, which would be your secret holes, too. The classes, by their very nature, need to go to a place on the river which is typical, and fairly large, so that some number of folks can move around. So, that means places like the Ben Howard drift on the Sky. I think there might be room for another rod or two there.

Second, these classes aren't fifty people, they're like 5 people or so.

Third, the people in these classes, while new to fly fishing, have already made the decision to fish, and already headed for whatever river they can find. The fly shops are trying to make a buck off it, sure. But tell me how that's different from GI Joes or three Rivers?

Fourth, Pete, Hugh, Dan, Jay, Julie, Brett, Seth, and Jenz at Creekside are nice guys, GET OFF THEIR CASE!

Not that I have an opinion or anything.

Gotta chime in on this one....I too have taken several of these "classes". My experience was similar to Drew's and I wish more people I see on the river had the same learning experience. I'm a former only gear guy who works too much, fishes when I can and I'm glad I learned in a coupla classes what others think should take years. Fly fishing for winter runs hasn't been too good for me but its the way to go in the summer. Extra pressure on your river generated by me in class?....Zip I'd a been fishing anyway....just have better manners and a chance to hook one on a fly now!