CWUgirl

Yes I think you should because it represents you very well. Thanks again for showing us what a healthy, balanced and rational point of view looks like.

Tight lines and good fishing.

JLH

Good point!!! And thanks for bringing a little humor back into this !!!

It has been interesting to watch the debate. It's great that we can debate something of this magnitude. We're about to embark on a new path that has never been tried in the US so I think it's healthy to discuss the issues, and not get personal, although it's sometimes hard to distinguish them sometimes.

Let's get back to fishing!!!

PMart and Fun5Acres,
Great words! And thanks for your support!! words of support truely are heard and FELT by our service men and women.

ETC(SW/AW) Reed
US Navy

Pmartin;

Nice use of the Code of Conduct. After six years of active duty I'm sure you're aware that the CoC was written for servicemembers that are in a position to be captured by the enemy. It was not meant as a patriotic call to arms.

I'm guessing that in the time frame you were active you spent some time in the gulf during the "hundred-hour Kuwaiti liberation." I'm surprised that given your feverish support of our administration you are only in the Inactive Ready Reserve and not a member of a Guard or Reserve unit. Surely there's a unit out there that can use your motivation.

I doubt you will find a single individual on this board that is not supportive of the men and women in the Armed Forces today. No one here wants to see a single person killed in this debacle. And that is precisely why some are speaking out against the current administration. They believe there is a better way to handle the situation.

Look at your own tag line; we're all amatuers here, and Bush is a professional.

Finally, when taking into consideration the number of countries in the world and the percentage of those that are backing us, it just makes me wonder if we really are doing the right thing. It's not because we're the only ones brave enough or strong enough. China and Russia alone are pretty formidable. And we're only talking Iraq here; we're already looking like we're taking a gun to a fist fight.

Here we go with another one!

Harley:

Yes six years ACTIVE, for some reason to you that is just not acceptable right!! I saw The gulf ... ( Somalia and Haiti) But since you have me pegged you probably knew that... And that was really nothing anyway right! Really just a neat camping trip. Just a couple of soldiers died.

And yes you're right it was only a hundred hours but for some reason the 100 hours sure did seem like six months to me!! And since it was just a measly 100 hours and apparently that's the respect you give to the soldiers that have fell during those mere 100 hours. You can kiss my lily white!!!! And since six years I guess means nothing!! Maybe you should tell that to the private that has been in a year and still standing in like a MAN!!! Willing to take round even for idiots like yourself!

You take the COC as you see it! I personally read a lot more into it than you. I saw and do see it as motivational...

I will never forget that I am an American fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

I also figured that other soldiers would feel the same! Since I am no longer one and since I did do my duty but that just not good enough for people like you!!

I wonder what the soldier's see when people like you say thing's like that? Hey, bravo I stand behind you %100. But, if you don't dedicate you life I'll be done with you after your tour! Heavan forbid you do six years!!!


But Harley for you to try and personally question what I have done and where I have been during my duty DOES NOT surprise me!!!! Where were you....During that measly 100 hours!!! Somalia, Haiti???


Typical Liberal!


For everyone else that does want to show some support. You can email Sodlier with this link... And not bi!ch about everything else and call it support..check this out.. Showyoursupport

Pmartin,


..."another one" what?

Geez, I merely pointed out that the CoC was intended for POWs. Meaning we shouldn't feel like prisoners here.

Don't know how you interpreted my post as an attack on your active duty time. I do think your motivation could be put to better use in a Guard or Reserve unit though, as opposed to the IRR.

How can you brand me as a "typical liberal" when I am simply exercising my right to question what the current administration is doing? After all, "I will never forget that I am an American fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. "

Like Japan and Germany, right?

Gutz,
Good post you beat me to it. Twig must be to young to remember who rebuilt Japan and Germany.

Don't forget who liberated and rebuilt France as well!

Everyone that is against the war and against the President has had there chance to voice there opinion and protest over the last few months. We have had a lot of big protest's around the country. I'm sure the President heard what you were saying and took that into consideration.

Now since the decision has been made. It is time we stop debating if it's the right or wrong decision and support our troops. Voicing out against the war does no good, it has no benefits, it's not going to change anything. No matter were you stand on this issue you should stop wasting time whining about the President and spend that time supporting the people that will be over there put there life's on the line. Showing your support for OUR troops can make a difference.

Lofty

Wow, voicing our opinions is useless? Sorry, interest group articulation does do good at anytime and can lead to policy change.

It isn't wasting time. It isn't whining. Supporting our troops maybe should include not putting them in harms way for an conflict that is so contrary to logic.

goharley

Thanks you for you contribution to this debate. Nice to hear from people that are free thinkers. Once you get use to biting that plastic, artificial stuff, it is harder to resist... especially if its followed with a beer chaser. So all you fishes out there... beware of the artificial baits(sound bites) that will be drifting our way, day in and day out, including this board for the months ahead.

Another suggestion would be to slow down on alcoholic beverages because they can contribute to a toxic brain, which reduces mental function, making it harder to see the bait.

All the name calling and attacks on patiotism, indicates that the people doing it are hooked on artificial and doesn't like the taste of the bait. Warning don't bite a cold hook.

Sobriety = Clarity

The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Pmartin

I didn't say everybody and why are you taking it so personal? By calling me a idiot(personal name calling) you are supporting my theory regarding the desperation to make others swollow the same offerings you so willingly gulp up. I invite you to continue your fight with that hook in your lip and not with me. Thank you.

Fact is Alcohol and the key board can trigger the angry agressive post that you just demonstrated. Not saying that I hit a trigger.

I take pride in my personal health(my choice) and try to keep my mind and body in top condition so that is why I personally don't drink.

In these times of stress I would suggest... while fishing is slow getting away from the TV and cable News and practicing Yoga or join a fittness club, anything that can free the mind and sprit so that we are able to cope better.

Relax, changing the World is not your job today. Tight lines and good wishes.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

I didn't read all the pages with this thread, so maybe someone already noticed this, but isn't funny that those same UN countries that didn't think Saddam had weapons of Mass destruction are now passing out gas masks and sending checmial and biological specialists to Help in Iraq..... curious isn't it? (maybe THEIR motivation was oil???)

I think the problem with most people is that they only use one source of information to form their opinions and beliefs. The ones using Rush are pretty evident.

It's a known fact that most newpapers are liberal in nature, and that National Public Radio is pretty conservative. IMO, the key is to get information from as many sources as possible and then digest it all together before forming an opinion. Ideally, the opinion should be unique to you, and not one that is simply regurgitated from the media.

I think if people would take off their blinders and view the ENTIRE geopolitical scene these discussions wouldn't last as long. But then what would we do for entertainment when not on the river?

Free thinkers = Those who agree with you =Those who espouse A.N.S.W.E.R's tripe

That's even below you! (Barely)

***** ***** *****

It is good to know that the Majority of Americans support the forthcoming action. I saw a CNN or MSNBC (dang where did it go?) poll showing well over 65% support for the forthcoming action.

The time for Diplomacy is over. We are going to destroy the Chemical and Biological agents that are in the possesion of Saddam Hussein and his Regime. This is what UN 1441 said and that is what we shall do.

Iraq (and the World) will be a better place without Saddam Hussein.

Gutz -

Do the ends always justify the means?

We are about to attack a country that has not attacked us or its neighbors since the last war....we are undertaking this effort in direct defiance of the world organization WE CREATED...

Americans were also overwhelmingly in favor of our actions in Vietnam...history has proven that to be a mistake. If time proves this to be a mistake will you feel remorse for the families of the dead?

Some people (not you Gutz) seem to think this War stuff is all dancing bananas and clinking classes. Well...while your bananas are dancing and you are enjoying your toasts to war....remember...people (soldiers AND civilians) are bleeding, even dying. Try tempering your obvious glee at the prospect of war with the thought that our friends and family members are in harms way...

I propose UN resolution 666...US does what it wants when it wants and everyone else kisses our ring.

I noticed no one touched my comment about pre-emptive crime prevention with a ten-foot pole...so I'll throw it back up there...

"They might (have a different perspective).....

..but I doubt it would be so clouded a perspective that they would attack Britain because it could 'potentially' attack them in the future...I believe the Brits also have WMD...

It would be akin to arresting people because they are likely to commit a crime....pre-emptive crime prevention.

Some people probably thing that's a really good idea...."

H2O - That pretty much is what the 3 strikes law is. Once you are proven to be incorrigible you are put away for good. I would say that is pre-emptive.

So the question has been posed. What would it take for me to change my opinion of the upcoming action?

Tough question. I don't think there is any chance that we would undertake this mission if we couldn't prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Iraq is in violation of UN 1441 and the other resolutions (678?) which resulted in the Cease Fire back in 1991.

If, as some have imagined, speculated and fantasized, WWIII were to break out, to say the least that would be bad.

If we were to find no chemical or biological weapons, that would not look good. I believe that Saddam has them and intends to use them. Will this be enough to sway the "Left"?

If "Big Oil" were to profit grossly and not rebuild Iraq, that would certainly not fit what are intentions have been stated to be.

If the Pope Sainted Saddam, I might change my opinion. (no I'm kidding, I am an Atheist)

I could think of more ...

Ok, your turn ...

Right...the three strikes law...

...perhaps a more apt comparison, not pre-emptive of course because the crimes have already been committed.....

Much like you Gutz there are very few possible outcomes that could change my mind. The use of WMD would not be enough because I believe it is likely that he has them and will use them in defense of his country. I would expect nothing less.

He can't be proven to be any more 'Evil' than he has already proven to be....

It is my position that it is wrong to move forward without the consensus of, if not the world at least our own allies, and going to war without that is wrong. If our allies refuse to support the action then we have not presented a convincing enough argument to them...pointing a gun at their head does not count...nor does economic blackmail...

None of this crap matters though does it?? I hope my friends make it home alive and innocent civilians find a safe place to weather the storm....

I wonder what the 1.5 millon dead Iraqies would say about this war against Saddam. It ain't W.M.D's, it is for the people of Iraq. All the rest is window dressing.