Oldman,

No I did not mean you personally are a pacifist just that we/anyone needs to not be that way if we can help it. I give you much credit for serving in Korea AND your vast knowledge of fishing! I have actually enjoyed many of your other posts on this board. I just chose to disagree with you on this subject and I wished to explain why. Of course this got me thinking about all the issues on the table.

Bob and crew,

I do not think it was very fair and nice for someone to "outloud" try and embarass me or make me out to be a bad person. I chose not to make it visible to everyone how I disagreed with "Johnny-Lee" because I thought it might be rude to allow everyone to see. I wished to gather his true feelings an inputs on how he feels about the subject -if he wanted to- so I emailed him directly and short --upset -yes I was. Still these are only words and for him to accuse me of being a bad person isn't very fair based on words. I think many of us stretch it out on here....Im very passionate about subjects and it might scare people. Maybe I'm wrong?

Sincerely, Darin

I don't know what's been going on with this nasty email businesses I keep hearing about over the past week ... but frankly, I myself don't see the need for it nor will I tolerate it behind "closed doors" of the board if it's relating to the board.

Basically, that means if you're getting nasty stuff from another board member ... please forward my way and they will probably be kindly escorted to the door.

Visible or not, the lack of respect for other board members has no place here ... disgreements are fine ... that's a primary function of discussion boards, but the failure to show repect for others is not.

Heck, look at Plunker and myself ... kinda like oil and water in our views, but at least we keep things respectful

Thanks ... I hope discussion on this ends here.

Steelnerves,

You new you were being rude that's why you choose the try to hide it. Why E-mail me with this anger of yours? It's not my problem, period.

You say that they were only word but how would you feel if someone you didn't know mailed you such crap. If you need more info on that subject there are other ways to go about getting it.

If you are aware that your passion scares people... then try to correct this character defect in order to be a better person. I will allow you to do that because I know what it's like to be human. Human's make mistakes.

I will accept your E-mailed apology and will assume that you ment it and not the round about crap you are saying above. If it's OK with you I will be done with this matter.

Hope you catch a big Slab steelie in the near future so that we all can share in your joy.

Well, the poll results are pretty much what I expected of this board, as well as some of the rabid responses against peace.

Standard issue nationalistic fervor, complete with gratuitous displays of destruction of anything not "patriotic" enough (e.g. Dixie Chicks CDs, French Fries, etc..) by unthinking drones. What's next, book burnings of Alexis D'Tocqueville?

At least the mobs are predictable. Tell them who to hate, and they give their Two Minutes Hate. Never mind who gave the Iraqis the arms and technology in the first place.

The mindless aggressive attitude is coming back to haunt us, though. The schoolyard bully is discovering the attitude of putting "a boot in the ass 'cause it's the American Way" doesn't make any friends.

So, here's the truth of the matter: The whole Iraq matter has been planned and set before September 11th. That's right, we were going to war with Iraq the moment Bush took office. The events of that day have become our Reichstag Fire, despite the fact the no link between Al-Queda and Iraq has ever been proven. Those events were the pretext for Bush and neo-conservatives to curtail our civil liberties, try to quash dissent, and put thousands of good people in harm's way in order to finish the first Gulf War.

Tonight we stand on the brink of chaos and war.

You arrogant, traitorial fools.

[LIST]


So what? We helped create a monster now lets correct are mistake! good point.

When your #1 the'll always be distain for you. Other countries have been talking smack about us for along time, even the ones that wouldnt be countries if it were not for us. That will happen whether or not we go to war. Can you imagine all the whining that would go on if the U.S pulled completly out of world politics including the billions of dollars in aid were paying several countries. To be #1 you have to be a player, we do alot of playing and we are #1 bacause of that , and we will continue to be #1.

Iraq is a clear and present danger, they posses chemical and biological agents along with doctor germ. That alone would be no big deal for instance if France ,Britain, Spain, or Norway had these there is no reason for us to feel threatened by them they are led by reasonable people. Saddam hussein is a frickin pissed off madman that doesnt give a hoot about the world, its people, or for that matter his people. There is nothing stopping him from handing over quanities of these lethel agents to terrorist organizations that have no problem crossing our week borders. Therefore creating a real threat to the homeland!


If little boy has a gun wouldnt you take it away? Or would you wait for the gun to smoke?

I prefer to put out fires before they start!

And so what if we get a great deal on some oil while were there wouldnt that be in the best interest of this country. Whats wrong with that?

The UN is a useless soap opera and a joke. Bunch of politicians who can't even speak the same language sit there and BS each other through translators. That says it all. It can NOT get any thing done nor does it have ANY power to do it. There has been many other UN mandates and resolutions that have been ignored, so add another one to it. Why are we trying to twist the UN's arm? Whom are we trying to fool? Is it just a feel good thing? Since the powerful nations pick, choose and influence the UN mandates & resolutions, I say we should abolish the UN and spend the money on wildlife habitat

HERE HERE!

Yeticaster,

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head.

Again I would recommened another look at Yeticaster's above post and you will see clearly what is going on with this picture.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

It seems (one) of the reasons we are going in is to free the Iraqi people so they can express thier feeling for or against thier goverment and the way they handle thier politics. It seems alot of people in this country are forgetting our rights as Americans! Its going to happen so why dont we all pray for our men and women and hope it goes fairly quickly for both countries sake

O.K, here we go... No time to worry about right or wrong but to pray for all involved. A lot of people are probably going to die in the next 24 hours.

I don't understand how I trust and believe Colin Powell but get the creeps when I listen to G.W.. Whatever the case, its on.

Ditto Yeticaster.

Some of you that hold such disdain for the UN confuse me. You have absolute contempt for an organization that is modeled exactly after the government that you so fervently support. Isn't congress "just a bunch of politicians sitting around BSing each other?"

If I could take the military away from GW, I would.

Seems true in a weird way. A lot of the American people are being led by their emotions and the rhetorical patriotic dogma. Look at the Dixie Chick controversy. She isn't punished by the government (dictator) because the government has convinced (conditioned) the people to do it for him. Ingenius.

People; please refrain from using the "humanitarian" arguement for justifying this war. Bush couldn't care any less about Iraq's people. He cares less than Saddam himself. If this was about humanitarian issues, there are many more countries out there suffering at a greater degree than Iraq. Iraq doesn't even have closed borders; the people can leave whenever they wish (which some are doing now that we are threatening to blow everything up).

If Bush is so concerned with HIS people (that would be us), then why is he putting them all "in harms way?" Why not use all the money he's spending to send troops over there to better protect our nation's borders? If the CIA/FBI were revamped maybe our intelligence sources would be better and tragedies like 9/11 would never happen.

When Bush wants to spend all that money to "free the Iraqi people," what message does that send to the millions of Americans at the poverty level whose aid was just cut because money was diverted for the war effort?

Finally;
Micro said:
I'll bet those American soldiers would rather die of old age. You use the word "we" pretty loosely as you sit comfortably behind your computer.

Hitler, Stalin, and Hirohito thought the same way. Brilliant.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was FDR that said that in his inaugural address, and he was refering to the economic depression that gripped the nation.

Originally posted by Steelnerves:

It's a damn good thing that Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King jr. didn't posess the kind of wisdom that you do Darin. Yep, The two most famous pacifists in history didn't improve a thing! Unless of course you count independence from the British Empire for India, and civil rights reform here in the U.S.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...

Good point 4salt. I am coming to the conclusion however that passivism will not deter terrorist agression but invite it. The links of Sadham with terrorism are a bit skethy, but looking back, if the US had gone after Alkiada (sp?) immediately with the type of resources that we are now after the bombing of the USS Cole, we may be in a different boat now. Bottom line is, nations are either with us in going after terrorism or against us.

I have been away for a couple of days fishing the Sound for cutts and it was good. Now I return to the real world and the talking heads stations are a buzz with news of war. Should have never come back from fishing.

I feel that what is about to happen has to be for one reason and one reason only. If the bantered around fact that Sadam has murdered 1.5 Million Men, Women, and Children is true, this and this alone, requires his disposal. All of the rest of the excuses are just talking points.

The mistake Bush made was to try and sell this country and the world the wrong reason to go after him. We can contain him if we wanted to. We can certainly keep him from attacking us if we had to. But we can not justify the wholesale slaughter of his people as he and he alone has their blood on his hands.

I do not often agree with Bush and on this subject, I do not agree with his reasoning. I am not a Demo or a Repub I am truely an independent. I know innocent people will die, theirs and ours, but there is a greater good to be served here. I am sure if we could have taken him out with a team, we would have done so by now.

Everyday our freedoms are being compromised in the name of protecting our freedoms. Those who cause this instability in my freedoms, either real or perceived, must be stopped. I will not have a wildman in Iraq cause me to have to submitt to personal scrutiny when I want to jump on a plane and fly inside my own country. This is B.S. All of his nature, must be terminated

If we were to pile 1.5 millon dead bodies in France, Germany, Russia, or New York City for the antiwar factions to step over, do you really think there would be the outcry for no war? How about at your house, how would you feel then.

All I can say is let's get it done, once and for all. Let us pray that only a few will die and that the few will be Sadam and his thugs. I know that deaths will occure. Those who are ours, are heroes, at least to me, and those who are innocent bystanders will be the last blood on Sadam's hands. He could have avoided all of this and he alone took the stand not to do so.

If you are against this war think of your mothers, your fathers, sisters, brothers, your neighbors, hell everyone in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area, all dead, at the hands of one man. What sign will you carry now!

Anyone who has someone going to war over there, I want you to know, you and your loveones are true heroes and I bow to your presence.

I hear ya Jeff. I personally haven't taken a concrete position either way yet on the war issue. My reply to Darin was just to point out that pacifism as a tool to exact change (as opposed to violence) has been used with great success, and just because one may be labeled a pacifist, doesn't mean they just sit around and wait for things to happen.

You are 180 degrees off.

Why don't you do something useful like stand in front of an Israli Bulldozer. (A definite Darwin Award Nominee)

Thank the Isralis that Saddam's French Built Nuclear Bomb Plant was destroyed. Things could be much worse and certainly would be if we didn't act to stop the Iraqi's.

Good Bye Saddam. Burn in Hell!

I will probably have about 300 jump on me for this. But this is a fishing site and it seems that we are getting away from what this site is all about I really don't like to talk Politics because all that we are complaining about we as the little man can't change. Now we have people threating each other on this site and that is no good. How about we quit with this thing that is happening arnd stick to fishing and lying about it.

I think an occasional political discussion is healthy but would agree that the personal attacks are not and this site is a familair place for some of us to express personal beliefs on important issues, like going to war.

Gutz - You usually post good light-hearted stuff on these boards. You're WAY out of line with that one though. Why don't you go tell that girl's mother in Olympia just how stupid you think it was for her to die doing something that she believed in. Right or wrong, she didn't deserve it!

Hey there Old Man. I don't think any of us would disagree with your statement about this being a fishing site but don't you think fishing is just a little trite in light of what is going on. We all hope for better days, but now we find ourselves here. It is good to know what our Brotherhood is thinking, would you nor agree?

To those who's opinions may differ, that is what freedom is about. We all can benefit from hearing all our different thoughts. That is, if we think at all.

To those who are of different thoughts. I want to thank you, as you make me think. That is what this is all about