I heard from a reliable source that the Columbia River may be shut down for good after today - between the overharvest by the commercials, the pittance we possibly injured by releasing them, and huge allocation that has to be dedicated to upriver tribal non-selective fishing impacts, the allowable take of upriver ESA fish has been exceeded. We'll know by Tuesday so they say

spawn, i thought they where going to go strickly by the dam counts?? yesturday 4/11 was 6000+

I hope that is NOT the case. I am suppose to fish the CR next Saturday. So far this year, all rumors have turned out to be true.

All this MUMBO JUMBO about sport fisherman hurting the spring run chinook enlisted on the ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT is really starting to piss me off...................... EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not trying to get into one of these sportsman vs the netters threads but come on.

How can they keep pinning the loss of endangered species on the sportsman and luring us into expecting great runs of fish so we all will buy our liscenses only to find out that they're "predictions" were falsafied, as an attempt to make more revenue for our state.
Forgive me if this offends you...But it really offends me to see that the sportsman of our state spend hard earned dollars in liscences gas tackle and bait to hope and catch a hatchery springer........and RELEASE the natives!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN THE NETS DO THAT?


I say we follow in the footsteps of our northern friends in Canada..........
Have our GOVT. buy out the commercial fleet.

How is it that bad. More fish=more fisherman..
more fisherman=more money!!!!!!!!!!!1

All this MUMBO JUMBO about sport fisherman hurting the spring run chinook enlisted on the ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT is really starting to piss me off...................... EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not trying to get into one of these sportsman vs the netters threads but come on.

How can they keep pinning the loss of endangered species on the sportsman and luring us into expecting great runs of fish so we all will buy our liscenses only to find out that they're "predictions" were falsafied, as an attempt to make more revenue for our state.
Forgive me if this offends you...But it really offends me to see that the sportsman of our state spend hard earned dollars in liscences gas tackle and bait to hope and catch a hatchery springer........and RELEASE the natives!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN THE NETS DO THAT?


I say we follow in the footsteps of our northern friends ..........
Have our GOVT. buy out the commercial fleet.

How is it that bad. More fish=more fisherman..
more fisherman=more money!!!!!!!!!!!1

It is always "our" fault for the demise of fishing runs.

Minibear, I'm with you 100%. It is common knowledge that the sportsmen and women put MUCH more $$$ into the local economy than do the commercials. What will it take for the gov't to figure that out?!! Think of the TAXES they are losing Ohhh, maybe that's the key, explain the extra revenue wish it was that easy! My inlaws are here, I'm missing out on what's left of the fishing, and my buds (GutZ, fishslayer75, and shutupandNET) were down there today calling me on the cell, saying, fish4steel---wish you were here!

As far as I am concerned Canada got it right. Buy the stoopid A**H***s out, all it is is welfare anyway. We pay to raise the fish so they can make a living. I wish I knew what the #'s were per fish or lb of fish for sportsman vs commercial back into the economy.

Saw a lot of boats in Port Hardy CHEAP because they cannot be used for any commercial use anymore. Great deal.

I think the politicians in this state that could do anything to make changes are getting rich off campaign contributions from the commercial industry and could care less about either the fish or the tax dollars.

Thanks to the state and the feds it looks like campgrounds, convienance stores and delis are going to suffer big time from I-5 to the Bonneville

A couple years ago they passed rules that close the river to shad too when its closed to Salmon! The indians are going to be really happy this year there going to make a mint when the shad are running. totaly B.S!
I am getting sick a fricking tired of this states dum arse policies there running the sports fishermen out of town. I guess my friend vince wasnt kidding when he said in the fifties he saw it in writing somewhere that the Indians made a deal with the Government that insured we got the timber and they got the fish!

I bet it doesnt help much that the director of the bonneville dam is a member of P.E.T.A .
I was told this by fisheries biologist at the SQUAWFISH check stations after the Bonneville recreation area was close to all night fishing and overnite parking. I used to fish for squawfish and walleye all the time down there. Until that B.S The checkstation had to move across the highway even though they were done by the time the rec area closed. I dont believe the B.s about they closed it because of trash and poachers. there was only about 20 of us who fished at night down there and we picked up are stuff and watched out for the viet cong sturgeon poachers, nowone got away with it when we were there. Now the poachers have open range and the sturgeon get raped. Most the trash came from the ruskies and ornamentals during the day.

As far as qouta management goes, what a frickin joke! Salmon come out of the fishwheels and into the truck of the tourist cars, no record taken at all. Just cash and beer transactions. Last times feds tried to enforce qouta records one was tried to the railroad tracks and that was the end of that.

I read an article in the fishing and hunting news that depressed me for a week. Thre taking sturgeon from below the Bonneville and transplanting them up river because the Indians could not get there so called qouta this year! Ya that makes a whole lot of sense!

Since all thats open in area 10 right now is bullheads I think I'll go give it a try before work tommorrow. With my barbless jig
Actually I think flounder is open to yipeeeee! what a frickin nightmare this states fisheries are turning into, and to think that theres plenty of people out there that still think more regs on us is going to help even a smiget!

The compact members are going to meet on tuesday, I believe, and will decide then what happens.

Some food for thought...
What do the commercial fisherman think of the regulations? Do they feel they are slanted towards them? (I have a neighbor who is a commercial fisherman. I'll ask him and post his response.) My guess is probably not. I doubt the Indians are making a mint. I know several, albeit none of whom commercially fish, who are far from rich, and they speak of those who do fish of doing it for the tradition, not for the money.

Maybe we could recruit Tim Eyman to pass an initiative requiring commercial fisherman cease to fish in Puget Sound and CR because they cannot comply with selective ESA requirements?

Question:
Would you be willing to release *all* fish in exchange for the above, no more commercial fishing in Puget Sound and the Columbia River?

regards,
Skeeter

I know some comercial fishermen I can answer right now. They think there getting the shaft too!

Yes the columbia r. Indians above Bonneville do make mucho bucks on springers and shad and they will make a mint this year on shad alone! they sell the springers for 2 to three dollars a pound depending on there mood that day and whether or not they think youll pay more. They sell the shad to the ornamentals for two to four bucks apeice depending on size and sex.

I know indians too and I myself am part indian. Many are just as fed up with there brothers netting BS as I am Tradition my arse! Bring back the dip nets and fish spears if your so worried about tradition!

ok, the Indians can make good money commercial fishing. But what are we the sportsman, willing to sacrifice in order to have better fishing?

Another question, is following possible:
The sportsman release every Salmon and Steelhead caught in Washington state waters, and the white commercial industry gives up Puget Sound and CR. Then the native commercial fishery would get half of 0? Somehow I think someone has probably already tried this approach. Is it fair?

regards,
Skeeter

Skeeter, what we Sportsmen are "giving up" is money, lots of it, around $45 or so for every pound of fish we catch. This is money that supports a significant economic sector of the state of Washington. "Wise use" of public resources, that our polititions are so fond of talking about, would dictate that these resources, in this case fish, would be dedicated towards those uses which return the most money to the economy. Our "giving up" catch is about like using greebacks for TP. We are not the ones who should give up, it is the unwise users of public resources, in this particular case commercial fishermen, that return 15 times fewer dollars per pound of fish to the economy than we do, and that use these hatchery produced fish in a manner that returns less to the state economy than it costs to produce them. Absolutely senseless economically and a horrendous waste of tax dollars. There should absolutely never be a commercial fishery on any fish that the sport fishery can fully exploit. It's far past time that our elected officials understood that, and if they can't, unelect them

hey minibear, dont worry about offending anyone, say what you want...

The WDFW Commissioners DO NOT..I repeat DO NOT..take economic benefit to the state into account when setting seasons and harvest quotas....They, in fact, come right out and say that the fact that sports anglers put many times more money into the economy than the commercials do is immaterial. They will tell you that the LAW of the state of Washington mandates that they provide a VIABLE commercial fishery in this state. Obviously they are doing a piss poor job of it as the commercial fisherman is a dying breed. The commission and the governor both need to be given their walking papers....The tribes are pumping mass casino money into the pockets of sympathetic politicians and the state does not want to cross them for fear of going to court where the tribes win 100% of the time.

Nothing on WDFW's web site yet.

Found this in the Seattle Times. Funny how the Feds are just now figuring out how much damage nets do. Gotta love the comment at the end of the article too. Small communities make more money from commercial fishermen then sports fishermen? Don't think so. Now if the Feds could put 2 and 2 together and look at the commercial salmon fishery.....

Further reductions on trawling imposed

By The Associated Press

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VANCOUVER, Wash. — Groundfish stocks remain depleted despite drastic restrictions imposed last year on West Coast trawl fishing, federal regulators said.

As a result, the Pacific Fishery Management Council voted Thursday to impose emergency limits on trawlers that could cut earnings from the already struggling fishery in half, industry groups said.

"Many boats are not going to be able to sustain the loss of income," said Steve Bodnar, Coos Bay Trawlers executive director. "This is devastating."

The cutbacks come just seven months after federal fishery managers sent Oregon and Washington fleets reeling by closing to fishing the largest area ever off a U.S. coast.

Thousands of square miles off the West Coast were put off-limits to protect canary rockfish and eight other overfished species targeted by nets dragged across the ocean floor.

The value of the fishery has plummeted during the past decade. Sales from Oregon's groundfish fleet dropped to $14 million last year, down from $34.5 million in 1995.

Its estimated economic contribution to the state fell to $26.4 million in 2002, down from $59.3 million in 1995.

The latest restrictions were sparked by new evidence that the numbers of fish unintentionally caught in trawl nets could be as much as four times greater than previous estimates. Scientists based the new estimates on numbers from shipboard observers who only began monitoring the fleet in 2001.

"The data was so obviously showing that the bycatch estimates were wrong," said Burnell Bohn, who represents the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife on the fishery council, a state and federal panel that sets ocean fishing rules.

Conservation groups said the council set a precedent for using observer data to rapidly adjust fishery practices.

"This is a huge victory for better management of our Pacific groundfish," said Phil Kline, fisheries-program director for Oceana, a conservation group in Washington, D.C.

Trawlers and seafood processors questioned the observer numbers and urged the council to consider the economic impact on fishing communities.

"The best available observer data is just not good enough," said Bill James, a trawler from California who attended the council's meeting in Portland last week. "You're closing down not just an industry, you're closing down small coastal communities. This is not right."