Naked paint ball. We'll see who the real men are.....

Work's For Me .I Get Chappy First .Rick

for all the people agahst at my comments on wolves curbing the populations of other predators....sorry folks its true. the wolf by its pack nature was an apex predator on the level of the grizzly bear. they can eat cougar and bear young. even a mother bear could not protect more than one cub from a whole pack of wolves. thats one of the draw backs to the yellowstone re-introduction is that the re-introd wolves are young and agro and have killed off much of the parks coyote population.


i am not saying that a lone wolf will attack a cougar or bear at all. in fact a cougar killed one of the re-intro'd mexican wolves in arizona two years ago.

the problem with wolves and humans is that they are so much alike. most wolf researchers come to the conclusion that humans, subconciously are envious of wolves. that they are smart and caring and still live in contact and balance with nature.....we humans are more and more being forced to live false and unfulfilling lives working at jobs to produce junk.....thats why we are addicted to things like fishing...even if too release the fish..... cuz we desire to be in contact with the wild world, and to live as we are meant to


isnt this all getting a bit carried away... cats will like fish with or without hound hunting. we are so out of balanced with nature that a cat wanting a fish scares us. and we are the fishermen who are out in nature. if i see a cougar it is a great day.

sorry if i pissed every one off by calling driftboater a crybaby but a dozen posts blaming animal rights activists for everything is a little much. environmentalists are doing more to protect our fisheries than any sportfishing group on this planet.

Chappy, Chappy, Chappy.
Thanks again for the good laugh.

Once again you spout off about the wolves being the reason cougars numbers are growing, but as usual you give us no evidence of you personal accusations.

By looking at the time you posted I'm going to ass u me that you were drinking. So do me a favor and next time you begin to type on the ol keyboard STOP and think before you type. Glowball wanted some proof.

Keep the good comedy dhapster.

How aboot this for the next shebang. Snoopy Pole Fencing! 30# to a 3" nerf basketball, max drag. Two logs 2'x1.5' [skinny] 35' apart. Each combatant wears identical bright & ugly tshirts with a large 'but on the front. Direct hit on the either but/t is an automatic win. Then, first to strike color 3 times wins. If someone casts so weakly that you can catch the line, you may try to pull your opponent off their log or Snoopy out of their hands [but if you break their line you lose] or throw their own lure back at them. If a person falls off a log, heh, loses pole or is struck by their own lure on color, they lose. Would be fun [esp to spectate - somebody bring a camcorder!] after a day's sea legs and cold pops!

Looks like you've been doing some reading up Chappy. Got any wolf links?

Maybe if we keep this flame thread going, all the others will be immune. In that light, have you seen the article about state legislatures' effort to criminalize dissent on issues about the environment?

Have you ever signed a petition in support of an environmental issue? Do you belong to or donate to the Sierra Club, Washington Trout, or Piscatorial Pursuits? Have you publicly protested some environmental issue? If legislation crafted and promoted by the ultra-conservative American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) becomes law, these fundamental rights of American citizenship could become illegal.

Will Peta kids start eating burgers for cover? Will the court buy our claim of "Everyone knows stories from fishermen are tall tales!"? If I fall out of the boat on a strike is it "ker-plunking"? So many questions...
Heh. </flame>

Bawahahahahahaha!

Chappy, you really need to keep your lips from the green tea jug!

Hey you didnt piss me off about your comments, it just reinforces to me and others how ludicrous your type of people really are..

Are you sure about that?


http://www.sportsmenslink.org/Sportman/

Racerdan... I believe the number is 20 people killed in the last 100 years in the USA by cougars. 18 in the US by bears. Thats killed only.

Most incidents are accident, mistaken identity, or just plain stupidity.

You all probably heard about that 2 year old killed by the coyotes in California? The parents were tossing the coyotes hot dogs! Idiots went in to get more, left the kid out. Gee, the people are giving out weiners, I guess the 2year old is part of the deal?? Idiots...

driftboater... Please come at me with something better then jokes about Enumclaw, my age, or Chappy. It just gets old and really doesn't work much. Once again... Just please... SOME intelligence?

Chappy... You're not helping the cause much man... Just quit posting unless youre actually gonna put in some real evidence.

Curtis

Well its my turn to keep this never ending thread going.

I have followed this discussion and the others in the hunting forum (all of them).
I am sorry voodod daddy, in my opinion you are way out of line on this, along with the other threads.
What driftboater and others have stated for the most part accurate(opinionated) and I am glad I started reading the threads. Its been a great learning experience on a variety of issues.
Your attacks against driftboater are quite amuzing and I really apploud him for apparently laughing them off. These attacks you spout just show me that you do not understand the issues very well and your apparent lack of experience.

I hope you do not take what I said as to much of an insult but learn from it. It's important for the youth of today to learn respect and carry on heritages. Hopefully you can do that.

Feather,

You say you want "facts". Well here you go!
Wolf Factoids

(1) The wolf (Canis lupus ) Order: Carnivore, Family: Canidae

(2) The wolf is the largest in the wild canine family

(3) The coyote evolved separately from the wolf over 500,000 years ago

(4) The wolf has 42 teeth

(5) The wolf has rounded ears

(6) The wolf has a broad heavy muzzle

(7) The wolf has extremely powerful jaws capable of generating 1,500 psi pressure

(8) The wolf has one of the widest ranges of size, shape and color of any mammal in North America

(9) The wolf lives in a pack, family oriented social structure

10) Mating season for the wolf occurs in February and March.

11) The gestation period for the wolf is 63 days

(12) Wolf pups are born in April and May

(13) The average litter size for the wolf is 4 to 7 pups

(14) Litter size for the wolf depends on nutrition factors as well as fitness of the female

(15) Mortality rates for wolf pups can be as high as 50%

(16) Wolves have a vast communication repertoire including scent marks, vocalizations, visual displays, facial and body postures and rituals

(17) Wolves communicate with each other more by harmony and integration rather than by aggression and submission

(18) Wolves are territorial and defend their territory through vocalizations and scent marking

(19) If necessary, wolves will attack other wolf intruders to protect their territory

(20) There are two species of the wolf in North America, the Gray Wolf (Canis lupus ) and the Red Wolf (Canis rufus )

(21) In North America there are 10 recognized sub-species of the wolf

(22) The main threat to wolf populations is loss of habitat

(23) Predation is not violence, it is the act of obtaining food for survival

(24) The wolf is an ultimate predator at the top of the food chain

(25) The wolf is designed for running, catching and killing large animals

(26) The wolf is opportunistic and will attempt to catch the easiest and most vulnerable animal

(27) The wolf can kill healthy animals but naturally seeks out the sick, the weak, crippled, old and young animals

(28) The wolf primarily travels at a 5 mile per hour trot

(29) In chases, the wolf can achieve estimated speeds of between 28 and 40 miles per hour for up to 20 minutes

(30) Radio tracking wolves has been used in wildlife research since 1963

(31) Wolves are vulnerable to skull injury from kicking prey

(32) The canine teeth "interlock" so the wolf can grip and hang on to struggling prey

(33) The back teeth, or carnassial molars, are designed to crush bones and shear meat

(34) The wolf uses facial display in ritual aggression, dominance, submission or fear

(35) The wolf has 2 types of hair, "Guards and "Undercoat"

(36) The hair of the wolf is shed in the spring and summer and sheds out in sheets unlike most dogs

(37) The color of a wolf's pelt can be anywhere from white to black

(38) The wolf uses its hair to communicate anger, dominance and aggression

(39) The wolf's sense of smell is more than 100 times greater than a human

(40) A wolf 'scent rolls' to promote interaction with other pack members

(41) Dominance in a wolf pack is not necessarily established by brawn or direct attack

(42) A wolf 'scent marks' its home range. This serves as messages, and provides warnings

(43) The hierarchy in a wolf pack neutralizes aggression, reduces conflict and promotes social order

(44) There are two hierarchies in a wolf pack, one for females and one for males

(45) Change of rank in a wolf pack is more frequent in lower rank positions

(46) Wolf pups, while low in hierarchy, have many privileges and social freedom

(47) 'Ethology' is the study of animal behavior as a scientific counterpart to human psychology

(48) The "Alpha" wolf is the highest ranking individual within the dominance hierarchy

(49) "You just can't let nature run wild" by Alaska Governor Walter J. Hickel

(50) The "beta" wolf is the second ranking individual within the dominance hierarchy

(51) The "omega" wolf is the lowest ranking individual within the dominance hierarchy

(52) In the winter, the wolf's tail helps keep the face warm

(53) Wolves breed only once a year; most dogs breed twice

(54) In addition to the wolf (Canis lupus ), the genus Canis also contains the domestic dog, the coyote, the golden jackal, the black backed jackal, the side-striped jackal and the dingo

(55) Three (3) geographic races of the red wolf have been recognized; the Florida Red Wolf, The Mississippi Red Wolf and the Texas Red Wolf

(56) Wolves are often confused with Indian dogs, huskies, malemutes and German Shepherd Dogs

(57) Arctic tundra, taiga, plains or steppes, savannahs, hardwood, softwood and mixed forest were all originally inhabited by the wolf

(58) Adult male wolves average ninety-five to one hundred pounds and females about fifteen pounds less

(59) Wolves howl to greet one another, to indicate their location, to define their territorial boundaries, and to call the pack together

(60) Wolves can trot at five to ten miles per hour almost indefinitely

(61) A wolf may spend as much as a third of its time on the move

(62) The wolf is generally a docile animal with a strong aversion to fighting

(63) Submissive behavior plays a big role in maintaining peace within the pack

(64) A wolf's front feet are larger than their back feet

(65) Packs hunt in territories of up to 600 square miles

(66) A pack's home range will sometimes overlap the territory of another pack

(67) In addition to howling, wolves bark, yap, whine, and growl

(68) Litters of up to 14 pups are born in April through June

(69) Pups emerge from the den at about one month of age

(70) All members of a wolf pack take part in caring for the young

(71) When pack members return from the hunt and they are nipped on the snout by the pups, the hunters regurgitate undigested meat for them

(72) Wolves are considered to be competitors with people for game animals such as moose and caribou

(73) Although wolves are feared throughout much of the world, documented attacks on people are extremely rare

(74) Attempts to keep wolves as pets are not usually successful

(75) Wolves use direct scenting, chance encounter, and tracking to locate prey

(76) In scenting an animal, wolves must usually be downwind of the prey

(77) Wolves are active at all times of the day in winter

(78) Where waterways are plentiful, wolves often travel on the windswept and hardpacked ice in winter

(79) Wolves actually have a low hunting success rate

(80) To catch enough food, wolves must hunt often and test many animals before finding one that they can catch and kill

(81) Most packs contain less than eight members

(82) Wolves bear an average of six young per litter(82) Wolves become sexually mature at approximately twenty-two months

(83) Strong bonds are needed to hold a pack together; if there were no bonds, each wolf would go its separate way

(84) Most packs include a pair of breeding adults, pups, and extra adults that may also breed

(85) Ambushing is used by both single wolves and by packs

(86) Wolves at one time had an extensive range, occurring throughout North America, Europe, Asia, and Japan

(87) The only substantial population of wolves left at present in the contiguous 48 states inhabits northern Minnesota

(88) The range of the red wolf once extended from eastern Texas to Georgia and Florida and northward through Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Illinois

(89) The basic unit of wolf society is the pack

(90) The wolf's front teeth are sharp and pointed and adapted to puncturing, slashing, and clinging

(91) The wolf's pointed premolars and molars are useful for tearing and shearing once the prey has been killed

(92) The wolf's massive rear molars aid in cracking and crushing bones

(93) The wolf does little chewing

(94) A wolf can consume almost twenty pounds of prey at a feeding

(95) Wolves can maintain a chase for at least twenty minutes

(96) The wolf feeds almost exclusively on flesh, bones, and other animal matter

(97) Lone wolves have no social territory and rarely scent-mark or howl

(98) The range size for a given pack of wolves depends on many environmental factors, particularly prey density

(99) It is common for wolves to be moving eight to ten hours in a day

(100) A pack may cover distances from 30-125 miles in a day

(101) Wolves possess upwards of two hundred million olfactory cells

(102) A wolf's tail hangs while the tail of the dog tends to be held high and is often curly

BBVD,,are you just chapped at me? if so, is it because EPD is paying a little more attention to you and your P/U?

I'll work on coming off as a little more "intelligent" for you, OK?

maybee I jus needs to wach sum Jeoparty dis week.

Curtis thanks for giving me a chuckle, keep it up and you'll have me belly rolling like chappy gets me.

Golfer... your facts are fairly accurate. However, dogs are not a seperate species from wolves. The way to determine a seperate species if whether individuals of each can breed and create viable offspring (offspring that is not sterile).

Wolves and dogs can be bred together and their offspring is viable.

"After having slept together for 14,000 years, wolves and dogs are now joined together in scientific matrimony. Quietly, without fanfare in September 1993, wolves and dogs were recognized as the same species. Per the American Society of Mammalogists' Mammal Species of the World, adhering to the Code of the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, Canis lupus is the official species of both dogs and wolves. If you have a 'dog', your dog's classification is Canis lupus familiaris, where familiaris is the subspecies of wolf. If you have a 'wolf', your wolf's classification is Canis lupus X, where X is the subspecies of wolf. If you have a 'wolfdog', your wolfdog's classification is Canis lupus familiaris, according to United States Department of Agriculture, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, R.L. Rissler, February 21, 1986."

Hmmmm haven't tried wolf meat yet maybe a little bbq sauce or teryaki some garlic and onion powder slap it on the coals for a bit might have to check into this

hey chappy do you know where i can get any wolf pups cheap

CWU... even if the wolves aren't a seperate genus, aren't they still a seperate species from say... a german shephard? I COULD be wrong... But it would make more sense if they were a similar or same genus, just seperate species.

Haven't seen you around lately... where you be yo?

Curtis

No, a german shepherd, grey wolf, poodle, bichon, golden retriever, pomeranian, and greyhound are all the same species.

They are the same species, seperated as subspecies. A grey wolf is "canis lupis," arctic wolf is "canis lupis arctos" and dog is "canis lupis familiaris"

I've been around, yo! Just had biz to do!

Getting back to the beginnning of this thread: So.... Is the cougar in question, more, less, or equally likely to jump a fisherman again?


Should WDFW continue to attempt to track this cougar down or give it a one time exemption?

ET, I was up there last week and ran into the Game Warden and he said the trapper wasn't having much luck catching up with the Cougar. His feeling on it was mistaken identity by the cougar. The guy that was attacked was wearing tan and the warden feels that the cat mistook him for a deer. I don't know and don't really care. He said he thought the trapper was going to try and find the cat for awhile longer before he gave up.

Thanks for clearing that up Kaari

I agree about the cougar (to lazy to look for at your moniker name)... considering theres only been like, 20 reported people killed in the last 100 years... not like the cougars are out to get us or anything. That trapper is all for publicity.

THis one sure seemed like it was out to get tthat girl.
BBVD do you remember the story about the lady from Princeton? or was the gerber still dripping off your chin.
=================================


The Associated Press
6/25/02 2:31 AM


PORT McNEILL, British Columbia (AP) -- An 8-year-old Reno, Nev., girl was recovering after being attacked by a cougar off northern Vancouver Island.

The attack occurred Sunday on Compton Island, a tiny island about 200 miles northwest of Victoria.

Rita Hilsabeck was on a kayaking trip with her parents and five other people when the cougar pounced on her while the group was making camp for the night.

"It was odd, really, there were people all around her when it happened," her father, Chuck, 52, said Monday at Port McNeill and District Hospital.

"She's got a lot of stitches and she's got soreness, but she's very tough and resilient and she's going to be OK."

Rita's most serious wounds were deep gashes around her neck, where the cougar grabbed her, he said. She also had to have some stitches on her arm and lower back.

Three members of the group remained on Compton Island after the incident, along with Jason Doucet, a guide with Northern Lights Expeditions of Bellingham, Wash.

"Rita was just near the kayaks and the cougar came up and just picked her up on the beach and started dragging her up towards the woods," Doucet said.

Her parents and other kayakers ran to the rescue and eventually scared the big cat off. The cougar, a large male, climbed a nearby tree and was later shot and killed.

Cougars have killed 11 people in British Columbia, 10 of them children, since 1900.

Most cougar attacks occur on Vancouver Island, which has the highest concentration of British Columbia's cougars. There have been 15 cougar attacks on Vancouver Island since 1970, including three deaths.

The last fatal attack occurred in August 1996 when a 36-year-old woman died near Princeton, about 120 miles east of Vancouver, while fighting off a cougar that mauled her son.

Cindy Parolin, an experienced outdoorswoman, was killed when she rushed to defend her 6-year-old son Steven. He was attacked by the big cat after it spooked his horse and he fell off.

Parolin, 36, went after the cougar with a stick and it turned on her, allowing two of her other children to carry Steven away and get help. The family had just started a horseback camping trip.

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Take it for what it's worth but I Just heard today that the cougar attack was a big hoax.

=========================
Attacks prompt B.C. to consider predator culls
Globe and Mail Update and Canadian Press
Thursday, August 22


Vancouver Island residents could see an increase in cougar and wolf attacks on pets, livestock and possibly humans if the animal populations aren't brought under control, a provincial wildlife specialist warns.

Doug Janz, a fish and wildlife specialist for the Water, Land and Air Protection Ministry, is recommending an organized cull of wolves and cougars, similar to those in other provinces grappling with the problem of so-called nuisance bears.

"There definitely seems to be a trend of increasing problem animals," Mr. Janz said.

Both the deer and marmot populations on Vancouver Island have plummeted in the last 10 years due to predation, he said.

It's estimated there are fewer than 80 Vancouver Island marmots left, 47 of which are in captivity. The government and the forest companies have invested millions in a recovery program.

"We don't want to turn it into a cougar feeding program," said Mr. Janz, who chairs the recovery program. Hunters are cheering the proposal but conservation groups are opposed.

Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection Joyce Murray is expected to make a decision on the cull proposal in late September, when she returns from vacation.

But other provinces already allow for culling of nuisance animals &#8212; an issue generating debate of another kind in central Canada.

On Thursday, Ontario New Democratic Party Leader Howard Hampton called on the province to give northern and rural municipalities the $1.8-million it's earned from a bear hunt organized to control nuisance animals.

While he refused to wade into the debate over the government's cancellation of the spring bear hunt, Mr. Hampton said bears are "everywhere" in northern and central Ontario.

Former premier Mike Harris cancelled the spring bear hunt in 1999 under intense pressure from southern Ontario-based animal rights groups.

Ontario gains financially from the bear hunt, said Mr. Hampton, but doesn't turn any of the money over to the municipalities to deal with wayward bears. The province should compensate municipalities based on the severity of the problem and for the cost of trapping and relocating bears, he said.

"This would only be a fair thing to do," he said.

Many bears in Ontario are now finding their way into built-up areas as urban sprawl reaches the hinterland.

"This is increasingly becoming a fairly serious problem," said Mr. Hampton, who believes the situation will grow worse as the animals forage for food to prepare for winter hibernation.

Recently, a bear mauled and killed a five-month-old baby to death in upstate New York. While Mr. Hampton said he couldn't predict a similar tragedy in Ontario, he suggested people could be at risk.

"This is starting to become a public-safety issue."

In B.C., Mr. Janz said that addressing habitat loss is part of a long-term solution.

He warned it could take 10 to 20 years for a critical drop in the deer population to cause a natural die-off of predators.
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