Kudos to the groups tearing down the dams...

As far as Bush is concerned... His name should not even be mentioned in the artical... The typical spin of the press at work...

The Republicans seldom have a strong an evironmental aganda as do the democrats...

Tell me something I dont already know...

No doubt about it Bush has been an environmental disaster. From taking us out of the worldwide global warming accord, to opening roadless areas to his logging buddies, to weakening clean air projections, and now allowing open pit mining wastes to be dumped on public lands, he is a complete disaster. The good news is many republican sportsmen are seeing the light. One of my fishing buddies, a lifelong republican, told me last week he cannot vote for Bush again because of his callus disregard for the environment. His never ending drive to play to his big corporate contributors may come back to bite him on election day.

Bush basically stinks as a president. He only is president to get his family and his buddies rich. And he's only a conservationist in the way conservationists were back in the 1800's with 24 steelhead tacked up on a branch.

Bush stinks. And no one could change my mind on that.

George Bush is hardly responsible for the decline in our salmon runs nor is he responsible for the upsurge of late. He is responsible for the 9-11 disaster and the bubonic plague, of course.

George Bush is responsible for anything I want to say he is responsible for!

He is one p!$$ poor excuse for a leader, much less President.

Anyone who voted for him should be ashamed of themselves.

OH MY Woolly! What are you going to do when GW gets re-elected? jump up and down and stomp your feet? Come ahead with your specific solutions....

Forgot one thing....GW didn't get his friends and family rich..They were ALREADY RICH. Does everyone with money pi$$ you off?

Voted for Bush in 2000 and will vote for him again in '04.

Jacob..stand up for what you believe....way to go...

To anyone with the brain power of an oyster it would seem obvious that the Times article quoted is purely propaganda.

Bush never claimed credit for the salmon increase nor did he blame Clinton for the decline.

Now, if we were talking econimics, we could better enjoy another great debate.

Plunker,

I believe GWB did attempt to credit himself and his administration policies with the improved chinook return during his visit to Ice Harbor Dam. Apparently no one had the temerity to inform him that the chinook runsize was entirely unrelated to anything his administration has done. Alas, another opportunity to inform and educate was lost.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I thought GW was taking credit to some degree for the great salmon returns this year but I would have to go review the speech to see if he was being general. I think his main point was to support the dams and the power companies and farmers and others who benefit by their continued existence.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Salmo g.:
[QB] Plunker,

I believe GWB did attempt to credit himself and his administration policies with the improved chinook return during his visit to Ice Harbor Dam. Apparently no one had the temerity to inform him that the chinook runsize was entirely unrelated to anything his administration has done. Alas, another opportunity to inform and educate was lost.

-------------------------------------------------------

Salmo, thanks for correcting his oversite, as we all witnessed it on local TV. With all the hoopla and High 5 ing displayed in the News, you would have to be blind not to see it. Maybe their is hope for Grand Pa, he even witnessed it himself as he emplied. Keep it up Grand Pa we might get you out of the Bushes yet.

I read this article and noticed that the portion about President Bush started with,

"Though it blessed last week's agreement"

So you are slamming Bush for blessing the agreement?

No you are slamming Bush just because that is what you do.....

If you want to blame something for the salmon decline, blame netting.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ET:


No you are slamming Bush just because that is what you do.....

-----------------------------------------------------------

ET, I didn't write the article, it was the New York Times. I think that following blindly, that is what you do. Get your head out of the ground and smell the coffee. Guess I forgot, that's what good little sheep do all the way to slaughter. We need to hold Public officials accountable no matter which party is screwing up. And O-boy, has this administration screwed up, big time.

By the way, I am an Independant that votes in both the Democratic and Republican Cacusess. I try to keep both party's on their toes.

I'm with Jacob F in that as a sportsman I also voted for Bush in 2000. He has restored honor and integrity to the White House at a very difficult time in our Nations history and I look forward to voting him back into office next year. I would encourage all you other sportmen and women who love God, your Country and your 2nd amendment rights to do the same.

Keep in mind that G.W. Bush loves to fish--and anybody that loves to fish can't be all bad.

My God I think I'm going to puke. Anyone who enjoys the natural resources we all love would want this guy out!!!
...oops Bill Clinton made me say that

JLH - You read an article and yet don't. Who is blind? Please go back to elementary school and tell me what the subject of this article was.

It must be tough walking around with Bush on the brain all the time.

Oh my god the sky is falling.. and it is all Bush's fault!

Even in the face of getting severely flamed some people actually stand by their convictions. Life is good...

Stew
I'm with ya

Did he just use honor, integrity, and G W Bush in the same sentence?


Did he really return honor and integrity to the white house?

Lets review:

Clinton lies about sex life. Bush lies about WMD in order to drum up support for his 'crusade'.

Clinton goes to college to avoid draft. Bush has his daddy get him into a military country club flying obselete aircraft that will never see combat.

Clinton supported NAFTA at the cost of working class jobs. Bush supported the Patriot Act at the cost some of our most basic freedoms.

Clinton smoked pot. Bush did coke (he didn't deny it).

Well, heres to honor and integrity then. We sure have come a long way.

Fact is, I am disapointed with both. The thing that bothers me is the blind support of a party or politician. To say that G W Bush is good for sportsmen and the outdoors in general is B.S., and you know it. I think most of the partisanship to the right on this board, is due to the gun control issue, and I understand the concerns. But, guns will not be outlawed in our lifetime there would be too much of an uproar. In the same way prohibition didn't work. Secondly, most of the gun legislation has not been that bad. I don't want felons to be able to go to the gun shop and buy guns, and I don't see why anyone would need to own an assault rifle.

My last request is that those on here that complain about the liberal media quit obtaining their education of current events from KVI as if it is fact.(and I voted for John Carlson) It makes you look stupid.

Funny thing is the right hates Clinton for the Brady Bill, yet the Brady Bill is up for renewal and wasn't Bush quoted as saying he will keep it in tact? So the gun control issue really isn't even an issue any more.

Bush this... Clinton that...

You guys must all like walking around with wet feet....

All you're doing is pissing in the wind...

Piper

so true

Its pretty clear that Bush has an across-the-board agenda to weaken every important piece of environmental legislation of the last three decades. He's bad news for fish and fishermen. But a bigger impact on our lives will probably be the record budget deficit he's run up. IMO ....

Not only our lives but the life of our children for the next 30 years

I believe I'll have another beer.

I agree, he is bad for fish and fisherman and there's no doubt about it.

As to Puking, I stuck my finger down my throat before the Iraqi War. Sure felt good getting it out and can't wait to cast my vote against him and his regime.

im with ya john lee!
strange that sportsmen could possibly vote for the republican party when it is as absolutely anti-environment as can be. and as far as returning honor to the white house..... bush is so corrupt that he makes clinton look like an alter boy. Bush is killing americans for his own personal oil agenda. ill take a clintonian blow job anyday over that

ill take a clintonian blow job anyday over that...........

That says it all!

The supreme court and ACLU defend sodomy and shut down the ten commandments and God.

America is really in bad shape. I can only hope that my grandson doesn't have to grow up with any of you liberal demon rats in power. Your view of what makes America great is twisted, sick and really pathetic. I truly feel sorry for you and your families (if you have any).

Grandpa: What seems twisted, sick and pathetic was that post you recently deleted. Seems strange you should be throwing stones. You took a discussion about Rush Limbaug, introduced Bill and Chelsea Clinton for no apparent reason, then talked about such disgusting things I will not repeat them. Then you come on telling us we are sick. Go look in the mirror.

grandpa,

have you been drinking the demon beer again?

Surecatch..the difference is that my tongue in cheek comments don't hold a candle to your heartfelt beliefs. I merely point out the role model Bill must be to Chelsea..probably a good one in your world....not so good in my world. I made fun of your icon to highlight how you were so fanatic to jump on Rush Limbaugh....It is you , sir, who is the hypocrit. The analogy went right over your head , of course.

Show us what a fine fellow you really are G2. Go ahead and repost your sick analogy. Then tell us all how all liberals would approve of the disgusting things ypu suggested. Then tell us how we need to keep God in government.

Many PPs know you for what you, are but some missed your truly sick post. Post it again if you are so sure of yourself. Hell go ahead and make it a new topic with a title something about how liberals raise their families.

May God have mercy on you.

Well go ahead Grandpa. What are you waiting for? Everyone needs to see just how really sick and diseased your thinking is.

And by the way, why didn't the pro Bush band wagon defend that post before it was deleted? Could it be that you are getting to be to much of an embarassement and is making them wonder about their own thinking and about you? Just a thought. So I am waiting to see you proudly submit your deleted post with honor, as a true Republican and PSA representative to this board.

None of the democrat candidates are even remotely electable. They've all flip-flopped on virtually every issue at one point or another. Bush has been a much better president than Clinton. I'd rather have a president like Bush who is a friend to the sportsman, than a liberal wacko who will give in to PETA's demands and make it illegal to sport fish in state parks.

I"m wondering what Dr. Phil would suggest we do to get Surecatch and Grandpa to quit the driveby trolling?

Call the shop and get them to get my boat back to me sooner....

Start an interesting fishing thread that doesn't include politics or religion

Send Surecatch to North Korea without his computer

call my boss and get me a month off????

I gotta know what you wanna be politicians think it would of been like if gore would of become president. Bush is no angel, but look what clinton left him.

G2: YOU started a thread about religion then have the nerve to ask that someone start an interesting fishing thread. to stop the bickering.
Talk about glass houses.

Jerry I quit: But I must point out that I didn't start this thread, nor the one about religion. Still it's better for everyone's blood preassure to drop this.

Why?

You'd just drag your political BS in from somewhere in right field and ruin it.

You know, you gotta fight those liberal demon rats whenever you can.

This nation is not in a sorry state due to Clinton or any of the Democrats. It is in a sorry state due to Georgie and the Republicans.

None of the Republicans are even remotely electable due to their stupid interests. And remember, Georgie did not win the election, Gore did. And Georgie stole it.

Georgie wants to trash our national forests for his buddies, trashed Iraq and A***anistan for his buddies, and wants to trash America for his buddies. If you can't see that, you need glasses.

Hmm, the economy is in the state it's in due to idiots inflating the tech industry when there was no money to be made. I could point out that this was under Clinton's watch, but that really doesn't matter. What the Clinton Administration is guilty of is Enron like bookkeeping for the budget.

The "surplus" was a combination of two things. One of them was creative accounting. The other was revenue "projections". The little idiot bean counters sitting up in Washington sat down and said "We're bringing in this much money now and our growth rate is 6%, so when deciding how much money we have we're gonna assume this unnatural and unsustainable 6% growth rate is going to keep going" which is simply stupid.

Then the ****ing tech companies crash because theres no real reason they should have been valued that highly considering they were losing money faster than they could print new stock shares to sell.

There was no "surplus" and there sure as hell wasn't a balanced budget. They were borrowing on money that had not and would not come in. So all those great times during the "good ol days" before your number one arch enemy GWB came into office were a FARCE.

Right, and the democrats have no loyalties to special interest groups. Democrats never gave China nuclear weapons information in exchange for campaign donations, right? Would you care to explain how Bush stole the election. We have an Electoral College that decides the president. If, perhaps, you were unaware of it prior to 2000, blame it on ignorance. Show me how Gore won the electoral vote. Use facts and proof, not opinions and hearsay. The facts are that Gore wanted to disqualify military ballots, it was Gore who took the issue to court, not Bush.

Could you show me one statement by Bush or anyone in his administration where he even implies he wants to destroy our national forests? He did not trash Iraq or Afghanistan for his "buddies". Afghanistan was harboring Osama Bin Laden. You probably don't remember this, but on September 11, 2001, a terrorist group called Al'Queida who is led by that Osama Bin Laden attacked our country. More people died from that than were killed at Pearl Harbor. The group that led Afghanistan was called the Taliban. We tried to negotiate with them to hand Bin Laden over to us (remember, that the government of Sudan offered us Bin Laden, but Clinton turned it down) but they wouldn't comply so we attacked.

As for Iraq. All the points have been made. We know Saddam had WMDs and since nothing can just cease to exist, we know they're still out there.

Destroy might be to harsh a word but he has gotten rid of several acts set aside to protect our forests. For a while every time I opened the paper he was backing out one environmental protection program or another. Again destroy is a little harsh but I don't think anyone would begin to pretend Bush is environmentally friendly.

right on Jacob

Nice job Jacob !!

That was even better than telling them to sit down and shut up

You're absolutley right; the democrats didn't give China nuclear secrets for donations. The woman that was sleeping with the FBI agents and charged with espionage was, in fact, a replubican that donated heavily to the republican campaign.

Yes we knew that Saddam had WMDs at one point in time. But we have also learned that he had none whence Bush scared us into believing they existed.

Things can simply cease to exist - it's called "destroying." Overwhelming evidence suggests that the physical weapons were destroyed and all that remained were desires and plans to reconstitute old programs.

Other than that, I don't think Bush is enviromentally friendly, either.

Originally posted by JacobF:
That's the first time I have heard that. The surplus disappeared in Georgies hot little hands. No one, other than Georgie, and apparently you, dispute that the surplus was real, and that the deficit that we are now in is far too real.

And it also sounds like revisionist history, and it sure looks like Orwell's 1984 to me.


http://www.nrdc.org/land/forests/qroadless.asp#7

http://www.gptaskforce.org/article.php?id=120

I find it very interesting that we have never been able to prove the connection between Afganistan and 9/11 until after we bombed it.
But if you want to look at the books, Halliburton wanted to put an oil pipeline across the country, but only after the country was 'stable'.

And yes, it is 1984, and the Enemy is out there, and we have to keep making weapons. It should be soon when we catch him. Here eat a little soylent green and go back to your job at the Ministry of Information.

Rob
who prefers to live in a time in which misinformation does not exist, and our country is at war with a named party.

You know, you gotta fight those liberal demon rats whenever you can.

I think it's rather funny how many of you have found your way on to this forum pretending to be sportsmen who are concerned about how many salmon we'll have to harvest in the future.

The truth is that if all you lefty, Green party loving, tree hugging, W.T.O. rioting, capitalism hating, P.E.T.A. supporting and the save the gay whales-- "so called" enviromentalists types had your way--We wouldn't be allowed to fish at all (even if we only practiced catch and release). Forget hunting all together--even if it's to put food on our families table. Because the truth is you believe fishing and hunting are barbaric and inhumane.

I on the other hand suppot P.E.T.S. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Steaks). Because, like Ted Nugent says,"you got to kill it before you can grill it".

Bush 2004

Grandpa, have you got a seperate identity? I have to believe that SCOWAK is yet another that likes to see others reactions. I shall not abide him.

do you belong to that new group i just found out about called, I.A.S.F`er ??

After haveing the Tyee fire of 94 almost take the chellan property I am all for new roads and the ability to protect my property.Too many of us live in the city and do not think about those that do not.They think everybody is to live like them or else.Nobody on either side looks at the whole picture just the part that they want too.And unfortunately the left hugs the warm and fuzzy.You guys spend too much time voting with your emotions and disband the truth too fit your needs.scary.

Go BUSH

I've seen a lot of talk here about how the Bush Administration's policies will doom our forests, rivers, and wildlife. I haven't seen anything other than empty rhetoric. How about some specific examples that can be debated apart from some of the name calling and finger pointing. It doesn't matter who is in the white house. This debate is about policies, not people.

Example #1: The article that started this thread mentioned a Bush visit to Washinton state. It assumed he took credit for surging salmon runs and many of you agreed that is what happened. I saw this appearance and I thought GW Bush was using this example to show how conservative policies can be successful. In this case he was praising the cooperation between private industry, local government, and the community (us) which apparently has resulted in a success story for salmon recovery. It was a chance for him to use a concrete example of the kind of environemtal policy he supports. A policy that rewards responsible corporate behaviour as opposed to heavy handed and costly federal regulation. Is it possible that that is what this president, who has some conservative convictions, was doing that day?

I like this forum because it is full of like minded good folks on both sides of the aisle that can bring thoughtful discussion and debate to the table. Bring a good argument, grounded in facts, to the table and you'll find that open-minded conservatives will listen.

Respectfully,
lobo

well...bush want's to cut a whole lotta trees down to 'prevent' forest fires...the problem however seems to be that he wants to chop big trees down not clear the small dense undergrowth stuff that's really the problem ...because you see...the small stuff ain't worth much $...that's why it hasn't been cut before...so clear cut away....
...and i'm curious how bush can take credit for the salmon run this year when most of the upper columbia fish are 4+ year olds? was he in office in '99?
..he aslo wants to increase the use of hanford for dumping nuke waste and has dramatically cut funding to clean it and other superfund sites up....

And too many that live in the woods think that nature should be managed to suit their needs.

It's a double-edged sword.

I promised to take a break from this luancy. So, rather than enter into any detailed arguments, which never seem to change any minds, I just want to say that everyone who agrees with me is noble, brilliiant, honest, patriotic and has never lined a fish. If you disagree with me you are just wrong. Please reconsider all your previous thoughts and y realign your thhinking to agree with mine. There that ought to settle this for once and all.

P.S. Fishiung on the Yakima yesterday was excellent.

(IMO) ALL POLITICIANS ARE ARSEHOLES......

But in this case I've had to choose the lesser of the two evils. I've always preferred to fish the Bushiest small streams I could find. The more Bush the better.I really enjoyed the 8 years I spent living in Alaska in the Bush. We got one t.v station and it was called the Bush channel also really admired the skills of some of the Bush pilots I had the opportunity to fly with. I have never had any problem digesting salmon or any other fish for that matter it's in one end and out the other (kinda like a politician except for them it's in one ear and out the other).I've never had any thoughts on how to Gore (spear or impale) a fish always preferred the rod and reel .I really do enjoy my computer and the internet suppose i better thank Gore without him there wouldn't be any internet.I wonder if you would call this a fishing related or non fishing related post :p

Stlhedfsn;

Dont forget the Bush company.

Dans,
I can do nothing but agree with that statement.On one hand I want the ability to mange our forest and on the other I want to see some old roads recaptured.I do not for one minute believe that Bush is trying to cut all our trees down.I understand the feelings of the people that live next to these roadless ereas and are unable to do any kind of fire prevention.I do not believe that the federal gov should be telling local gov. how to deal with there propoerties,they are just pandering to the extreme enviro groups for there vote.Emotional politics works good for the democrats.It goes both ways like you said.

The last thing I am going to do is vote solely on an enviro issue.Too many people do just that now.At present the only choice I realy have is to vote dem. or rep.If somebody come up with the money and the support too buck either party I would jump in but at present there is no such critter. Being raised a god fearing man that does not rely on hand outs I will stick with the rep.

go Bush

That establishment isnt politically correct I couldnt force myself to stay out of there

Interesting, I don't see my self as a liberal at all. I would think that the term "Environmental Anti-Fascist" might be more appropriate.

And that's a shame. I kinda feel left out of both parties.........the GOP has lost it's desire to protect my Constitutional rights and has lost its grip on fiscal conservatism. The Dems have decided to cozy up to groups that have no knowledge of life outside the city, and they only seem interested in my Constitutional rights that are considered PC in today's environment. They'll defend the first amandment till the ydie but will put the second amendment on the chopping block to appease the voters.

I guess I could just not vote.........like 60% of the poulation already does, but that would be a cop-out.

I guess I don't fit in with either group.

ditto

That's why I am an Independant. I get to vote for the candidate that best fits my overall veiws. I have voted for candidates that were Republican as well as Democratic or Independent etc. That's the only way to demand accountability and not letting them take me for granted. No matter what Bush does in the future you (Bush people) will vote for him as your duty as a Republican. I am an American first, and I vote for what's best for the country first and foremost, not special interest that benefit a few.

Hard to believe that some of the Bush people in these threads support every single thing that this regime does. Truely baffling, including this one. So I guess snaggers and poachers have lots of company when it comes to respecting our Salmon resourses. They say to hell with Salmon, save Billy Bob's farm? I say let Billy Bob move his farm, because for our kids future, the Salmon is much more important.

left..right..left...march on ..left right.. left...march.....