cowlitz

My point wasn't that marine mammels aren't a problem or that we don't need to control their populations. My point is that they are responding to conditions humans created and blaming them for salmon declines is putting the blame in the wrong place. That was the only point of my post..

grandpa
take what you will from my post and believe what you want I am just telling you that it's not true. I thought i had been extremely clear about how i felt about hatceries. They have their place and purpose. Many of the places and purposes that they are used for now are improper. I say this because currently every river and most small streams are planted to the gills ( no pun intended ) with hatchery fish.

So when hershel and his buddies were wiping out what was left of the ceder river sockeye it was our fault for not controling the seal and sea lion populations after we wiped out the Orcas. Right?

Please dont tell me that hatcheries produce more fish than what was originally in the rivers before man. That is just plain flat out wrong. Native populatians in there prime were thicker that hair at the mouths for months. my great great granpa told me all about the fish jumping throughout the sound as far as you can see. Ron lagar at the cowlitz told me how the water would turn milky with milt from all the spawning fish! hatcheries can never replace what we once had but they help. A river can support as many fish that can make it up to spawn. If it wasnt for hatcheries those pinnipeds would be eating all native fish! and they dont stick to the regs.

Well I can only speak for myself here, but I think they need to be controlled just for the sheer damage they can do to the fish population. You ever seen how they eat a salmon? One bite out of the soft belly and it is off to find another. Kinda like the Indiians gillnetting for eggs..... They want to fish to survive and "subsist", I have no problem with it. They want to gillnet the hell out of them to slit the belly, take the eggs, and throw the carcasses on the beach, then I have a problem.
Wish that one of the smart biologists on this board could explain why the seals (or sea lions) do this?? Why do they not eat the whole fish like most animals do? I know that when the fish are in real thick the Bears in Alaska will eat the eggs and belly and go for another, but this is a survival issue and they need the fat. This cannot be the case with the seals.... I have seen them at work while diving and it almost seemed like once they caught what they were after the fun was over for them.....

Anyway, all one has to do is go to California and see how the sea lions have taken over harbors because of the activists and over-protection to know that it is not the best thing for anyone or thing down there.... IMHO...

MC

G'Pa you are SO right on this point. Having guided on the upper Columbia for years taught me that Seagulls/Terns are good for cleaning up, but too many with not enough dead stuff to eat is TROUBLE! Used to watch THOUSANDS circle around the dam snatching up smolts all day long. Found one that hit a wire and broke a wing and put it out of its misery. When I netted it and it got all panicky it started puking out smolts and there were like 8 smolts in that damn bird. I'm talking chunky 6-8 inch smolts too! Do the math!
Now they have somehow got the Pelicans exploding on the Snake/Columbia systems. How did this happen? I never saw them growing up. Did they introduce, or re-introduce them??? I shiver to think of how many smolts a grown Pelican can eat at one time. Beautiful birds and nice to have around, but lets keep their numbers in check. Really all boils down to a common sense issue, but as I have said so many times on this board before, we are not a common sense nation anymore......

Buzz

Mastercaster,

Perhaps one of the smart biologists will provide a more detailed reply, but meanwhile . . .

I think seals and sea lions eat the bellies of fish because that's were the organ meat is located. Fish flesh is great for protein and some fat, but the heart, liver, and pancreas are excellent sources of vitamins and minerals that are critical dietary components. Another, less biological reason is that they might be like anglers. When they catch a fish, they can't wait to catch another. Maybe they find it good sport, and it helps maintain their skill level.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

On the Pelicans. Nature always fills a void or takes advantage of a food supply . Brown Pelicans followed the warm currents up here with El Nino targeting mackrel and others. They then saw a bunch of fish sitting near the surface that were released by hatcheries or are natural that the local predators could not exploit. Cormorants have to dive and can only nail a few fish at a time. Pelicans can dive into the school and scoop up much more. Therefore they expand in pops and range.

Not sure about the seals and sea lions. Except to say things are in a bad way when you have to fight wildlife for whats left of resource.

Salmo

Me think they are after the belley for 2 really good reasons!

1) That is where the most fat and heavy protein is at, and it's also is the softest place to bit and hold the fish.
2) Just like the bears and man, there after the eggs for there high protein value. They don't know if it’s a buck or a hen until they bit into them.

That's why they love to come up and shake that fish until they find out if they have egg juice or not! Why settle for hamburger when you can have steak!

Think fishy!

Cowlitzfisherman

Most of the seals I have seen lately have been swallowing salmon whole head first. The last one I saw was too big and was bitten in half. Lots of birds diving for the leftovers.