Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#272412 - 09/19/04 04:21 AM You're gonna get drafted !
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2505
Loc: Area 51
Better yet I believe is for all who are really for the war should go down and voluntarily enlist or if they are too old then to send their
children. Sorta like put your money where your mouth is, or in this case put your children where your mouth is.

Most of the plastic patriot crowd that believes in this war so strongly seem to just want to send someone else to go fight or die. You know like, "I am commited to this war and I believe that it is justified, but I think that YOU should go fight it, etc.". Seems to me that if they really believe in it so strongly that they should be the first ones in line down at the recruiting office.

Maybe if the law was written to take the ones who believe in it first, it would sure take a lot of the bulls**t out of the discussion. F.

Reprinted from Seeing The Forest:
http://seetheforest.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_seetheforest_archive.html#109546822828362236

Dave Johnson: 'You're gonna get drafted'
Posted on Saturday, September 18 @ 09:26:29 EDT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Draft - A Reason to Vote if You're Under 30

By Dave Johnson, Seeing The Forest

You already blew it: You didn't vote last time, or voted for Nader or Bush, and now you're gonna get drafted. There's no way around it now, the draft is almost a certainty.

You're hearing about Reserve and National Guard units being called up, and about people not allowed to leave the military even though their term is up. Have you thought about what this means to you? You KNOW this means they're having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq, right? Of course Bush doesn't want to start the draft BEFORE the election. Duh! But what do you think happens the day AFTER the election?

I repeat, they are having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq. Think about it. Right, you're gonna get drafted.

Or, maybe you think they can't do that? Maybe you think the draft doesn't happen in America. Maybe you think they can't just grab your ass up off the street, stick a rifle in your hands and send you off to war? Of course not, that NEVER happens. Right.

WAR. Yes, that word. The word you have been hearing from Bush's lips for months now. "I'm a WAR president", he says. Well, what did you
think war MEANS? Somebody ELSE'S war? Did you think it means you get to watch a TV show with planes and stuff?

No, WAR means young people getting grabbed up off the street and sent off to fight. That. Is. What. War. Is.

And, by the way, women and students are NOT going to be exempt this time. Maybe not even rich kids. ONLY the children of politicians will be exempt. THIS TIME.

So, are you finally ready to do something about it THIS TIME? Which candidate do you think is more likely to grab your ass off the street and send it to Iraq? Which candidate do you think is more likely to start a war with Iran, or Syria, or maybe even North Korea? Like Bush says, we're at war, and that's the issue in this election. Well, THAT'S what you should be thinking about THIS TIME.

So vote. THIS TIME.

==========

Except there's a problem with this message. Young people are so disengaged that there probably aren't very many of them reading
weblogs like this one, so they won't see this. And that means they might not figure this stuff out in time for the election. You have to help them. Take this post and copy it and paste it into an e-mail and send it to someone who is under 30. Or write your own message
explaining what the draft is, and why they should be concerned enough to actually vote. It is important to explain that the draft actually
CAN happen to them. If you're old enough you can tell them from experience.


Reprinted from Seeing The Forest:

http://seetheforest.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_seetheforest_archive.html#109546822828362236
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



Top
#272413 - 09/20/04 10:05 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Dave D Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 3640
Loc: Gold Bar
Quote:
I repeat, they are having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq.
Hum the threat of terrorism must not be bad enough for people to go to a land far away and get shot at. Today’s youth is smarter then I had previously given them credit for. ;\)
_________________________
A.K.A
Lead Thrower

Top
#272414 - 09/20/04 06:47 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Ranger's experience nothing like on TV

September 20, 2004

BY MARY LANEY

What was it like? Iraq looks a lot different than poolside behind a Winnetka home. It's worlds away from the mountains of Afghanistan. But Eric Leahy could tell me about what it was like in those faraway countries. Leahy's an Army Ranger from the 3rd Ranger Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment -- the first unit to parachute into Afghanistan and Iraq with just their wits and a hundred pounds of equipment on their backs. He has recently returned from four tours of duty: two in Afghanistan and two in Iraq.

He's visiting old high school friends and readjusting to life in mufti. That's how he came to be sitting -- in a T-shirt and jeans -- beside a friend's swimming pool in Winnetka, and how I came to be talking with him.

When I asked him what it had been like, he didn't talk about the heroics he and his fellow Rangers had been through, didn't brag about the medals he's won. He simply said, ''We're doing a lot of good.'' When I asked if he had been in firefights, he answered my naive question with a simple, ''I've been shot at.''

Leahy's only 23 but has a presence and maturity rare at his age. And his presence is daunting. He stands 6 feet tall with blond hair, blue eyes and a physique that one would call ''buff.'' He even appears to have muscles in his forehead. But it's his clarity and self-confidence that stand out. When he stands, he stands tall. When he walks, it's a walk of someone who now knows who he is.

''I was a 19-year-old kid with no direction. In basic training, I began to realize how hard these people work, how long and difficult this country's history has been. I had taken for granted all the freedoms I enjoyed and I felt proud to be a part of something so important and yet received so little recognition, at least before 9/11.''

It has been an adjustment for Leahy returning home, especially when he watches television news.

''What they're reporting has nothing in common with what I saw over there. Nothing. People back here think Iraqis and Afghanis are at war with Americans. It's just not true. The terrorists are killing Afghanis and Iraqis. For every American who's died, they've killed 25 of their own. They're killing their own people, not just American soldiers.

''When I was over there, not everybody liked us. But people would come up and offer us the food they had to feed their family for a week, or the water they had, and village elders would talk with us. But when you come back here, it's a whole different story.''

''Peter Jennings [of ABC News] was giving a live report in Baghdad when he noticed a Humvee stopped in traffic went over the curb and drove away. Jennings said the soldiers must think they're above the law. It wasn't that. The Humvee had no turret, no gun; it was getting out of a possibly bad situation.'' The young Ranger shakes his head at the reports just showing fighting instead of all the good over there: the schools built and open, the hospitals operating, the water that's now running, the electricity that's been repaired after years of neglect.

Leahy says he and his fellow Rangers had children coming up to them, laughing and thanking them.

''In Baghdad, they were all little entrepreneurs selling cigarettes and DVDs.''

He says he felt good when he saw young women able to walk outside, but sad to see them hunched over after years of having to carry heavy loads and stay indoors. There were tense times as well -- times when senses must be acute.

''One Holy Night, the Iraqis were cooking in the streets, local militia were on corners with AK-47's for miles. We didn't know if we could trust them or not as we drove through. We were turning a corner. I was watching, my weapon ready. All of a sudden an AK went off. I saw it was an accident. The man's weapon was pointed at the ground and went off. We drove on.''

I asked him how he deals with such sharpened senses since he returned home. His answer spoke volumes.

''My first week home, I was at a friend's wedding in California and still in the mind-set of paranoia, looking around a lot. I was out on the balcony overlooking an intersection and a stoplight.

"Cars were actually stopping at the light, no shots fired, no car bombs exploding, no one dragged from a car and burned by terrorists, no one fearful for their life. It made me feel good. It helped give reason for what I've done. To come back and watch a simple stoplight and see people here have lives where they don't have to fear that kind of thing. I don't think people realize just how lucky they are to live here.''

Perhaps not.

Leahy plans to enroll in college now. Once there, here's hoping he'll tell them -- tell them how lucky we all are.

Thank you, Eric Leahy, and welcome home.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/laney/cst-edt-laney20.html
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#272415 - 09/20/04 06:52 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Mau10Man Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 134
Loc: Pierce County, Washington
Sorry but there will be no draft. The ONLY bills before Congress are there because democrats have them there in a lame attempt to embarass the president....

This is a BS post.....
_________________________
Online Democratic support line..

Top
#272416 - 09/20/04 11:32 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
stlhd_dreaming Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 401
Loc: maine
Hey Man,

You might actually want to think before you say a bullsh!t post because man you are wrong no one is joining the military now trust me I am in it and they are literally hurting why do you think Bushie sent the national guard over there not enough military..... I support the draft if it was to happen
_________________________
Just remember that people are giving there lives over seas when you start bickering about a photo of a fish out of water !!!!!!

Top
#272417 - 09/21/04 12:34 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Mau10Man Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 134
Loc: Pierce County, Washington
Quote:
Originally posted by stlhd_dreaming:
Hey Man,

You might actually want to think before you say a bullsh!t post because man you are wrong no one is joining the military now trust me I am in it and they are literally hurting why do you think Bushie sent the national guard over there not enough military..... I support the draft if it was to happen
Nope, it is still a BS ploy. Check out this article here: Foxnews article..

The first paragraph says it all...
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Army National Guard recruiters across the country say that so far, the unprecedented levels of guard deployment into theaters of violent conflict for tours of 12 months or longer have not had a negative impact on recruitment and retention levels.
Yes, certain levels are "slighty" down but that typically goes in conjunction with a normal cycle. I guarantee you, more people left the services or did not join up because of Clinton in his first 4 years than GW.
_________________________
Online Democratic support line..

Top
#272418 - 09/21/04 09:20 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Pmartin Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 905
Question JLH. When did parents start sending their kids to war? When I signed up my parents were no where around. When I went to my first conflict(Gulf)I didn't call mommy and ask her if I could go. Didn't do it for my second(Somolia) either. It's an all volunteer military. As my drill used to say,"This ain't Burger King private and you aint gonna have it your way".
Maybe you should sign your bad ass up so that one of these children don't have to go? I mean you are a giant and the biggest kid on the block, I bet you being in Iraq with your size and stature would bring fear to all Iraqi's and would be a great motivator to the US troops. Maybe you could change your monikor to John L Rambo???


BTW Maui, I got out because of Cliton. Along with many many others.
_________________________
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
—Elmer Davis

Top
#272419 - 09/21/04 01:08 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2505
Loc: Area 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Pmartin:
Question JLH.

Maybe you should sign your bad ass up so that one of these children don't have to go? I mean you are a giant and the biggest kid on the block, I bet you being in Iraq with your size and stature would bring fear to all Iraqi's and would be a great motivator to the US troops. Maybe you could change your monikor to John L Rambo???


I am not anywhere near that stupid. I refuse to be a mule for Halliburton or Big Oil. \:D

Our troops are being used like a mofia hit squad for Halliburton, Big Oil and Bushes re-election.
------------------------------------------------------------

I bet you being in Iraq with your size and stature would bring fear to all Iraqi's

Why would I go over there to bring fear to each and every Iraqi? Don't you think that it's that mentality that is the cause for so many Iraqi's resisting and becoming terrorist? Is it our mission to kill each and every Iraqi that does not fear us? Sounds like something the Nazi's would do. I thought that we were over there as friends of the Iraqi people.
Don't you think that for all Iraqi's to be in fear of us (after we attacked and killed 10, 000's of innocent Iraqi's) is a form of terrorism in it's self? After all, American's are in fear of Al Quida who attacked us, and we call them (Al Quida) terrorist.
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



Top
#272420 - 09/21/04 01:17 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
What's that Jim Mcdermott kool aid taste like?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#272421 - 09/21/04 01:41 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
thesled Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 261
Loc: MLT
JLH,
You sound like your a couple of conflicts late, maybe the 60's is your era of protest, with one of those flowers in your hair. When I enlisted I didnt do it for some lame oil interest or any bullsh!& like that, I did it because I have some patriotic blood in my vains. If I'm not going to stand watch, who will??? YOU ahhh ha ha ha
_________________________
"Good were surrounded. This just simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC

Top
#272422 - 09/22/04 04:30 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
I guarantee you, more people left the services or did not join up because of Clinton in his first 4 years than GW.
I'd be very interested to see you prove that with credible documentation. I mean, since it's a guarantee and all.

PM- if you left the active military because of Clinton, why haven't you joined back up now that Bush is in office?
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

Top
#272423 - 09/22/04 04:52 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Pmartin Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 905
Now you are questioning my militarty service? :rolleyes:

6+6 isn't enough for likes of a$$holes like you?
_________________________
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.
—Elmer Davis

Top
#272424 - 09/22/04 05:32 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3009
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Awww shucks PM... You're gettin' all full of piss and vinegar again... ain'tcha ;\)
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

Top
#272425 - 09/23/04 04:15 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
No, I wasn't questioning your military service at all. I believe everyone should do as much as they can personally handle. Sorry to hit such a sensitive spot, you seem awfully defensive about that subject.

I was just wondering why you hadn't joined back up since Clinton was no longer in office, and he was the reason you got out. From your statement it seems logical that you'd be happy in active service again with Bush in office.

Unless, of course, Clinton wasn't really the reason you got out...
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

Top
#272426 - 09/23/04 06:17 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
B-RUN STEELY Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 3322
Loc: IDAHO
As a veteran myself I can't help but notice one thing...

In the 60's early 70's the music industry made a billion dollars screaming and yelling about how war sucks. These days the music industry is making billions tear dropping about how great war is and how proud yada yada yada. Toby Keith should give half his cash to the familys of KIA service men.
_________________________
Clearwater/Salmon Super Freak

Top
#272427 - 09/23/04 08:05 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Mau10Man Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 134
Loc: Pierce County, Washington
Quote:
Originally posted by B-RUN STEELY:
As a veteran myself I can't help but notice one thing...

In the 60's early 70's the music industry made a billion dollars screaming and yelling about how war sucks. These days the music industry is making billions tear dropping about how great war is and how proud yada yada yada. Toby Keith should give half his cash to the familys of KIA service men.
Bet you didn't know that Toby Keith has given more and done more for our troops than any other entertainer since Bob Hope? He has actually been to the Mid-East now three times for concerts for the troops. He also has given thousands of dollars to troop support groups.

How much have you given sport?

One more thing, go ahead and read this post also: Peaceful left post
_________________________
Online Democratic support line..

Top
#272428 - 09/23/04 09:22 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Dave D Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 3640
Loc: Gold Bar
Mau10man

thanks for the unrelated link
_________________________
A.K.A
Lead Thrower

Top
#272429 - 09/24/04 12:03 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
B-RUN STEELY Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 3322
Loc: IDAHO
What have you givin sport ???? How about 4 years of my life.. enough for you ???
_________________________
Clearwater/Salmon Super Freak

Top
#272430 - 09/24/04 01:12 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Mau10Man Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 134
Loc: Pierce County, Washington
Quote:
Originally posted by B-RUN STEELY:
What have you givin sport ???? How about 4 years of my life.. enough for you ???
I gave four years of my life too pulling stupid fisherman out of the cold Alaskan waters, protecting your children from illegal drugs and helping to stem the tide of illegal aliens from 90-94. I also continue to give money and time to veterans groups.....

Is that enough for you too?
_________________________
Online Democratic support line..

Top
#272431 - 09/24/04 01:23 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3009
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Oh yeah! Well my dad is bigger than your dad and he could beat your dad up any 'ol time... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

Top
#272432 - 09/24/04 11:10 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
thesled Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 261
Loc: MLT
Mr maui,
I respect the fact that you helped your fellow fishermen out, and protected us from the evil drug runners, but you have no clue what kind of sound a mortar round makes right befor impact. While I'm sure the illegal aliens give up a good fight, try an entreched MG pit operated by people who dont care if they live and die. Dont try and make yourself out as some kind of hero or think of your extra curricular activites as good deeds. Join a real service like the Corps and do some good eh.
_________________________
"Good were surrounded. This just simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC

Top
#272433 - 09/25/04 01:08 AM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
quote:
Originally posted by thesled:
Mr maui,
I respect the fact that you helped your fellow fishermen out, and protected us from the evil drug runners, but you have no clue what kind of sound a mortar round makes right befor impact. While I'm sure the illegal aliens give up a good fight, try an entreched MG pit operated by people who dont care if they live and die. Dont try and make yourself out as some kind of hero or think of your extra curricular activites as good deeds. Join a real service like the Corps and do some good eh.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

Top
#272434 - 09/25/04 05:30 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2505
Loc: Area 51
http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1103.htm

TBR NEWS- September 20, 2004

The Voice of the White House

In previous issues, we carried comments from a reporter assigned to
the White House press corps. Some of these remarks, most especially
one about Bush's physical and mental problems, drew an enormous number
of viewers and hundreds of inquiries, most especially from foreign
press entities. The reporter advised us by email that there was
rampant fury in the White House and security was becoming very tight.
As a result of this, he decided to lay low for a few weeks and see how
the wind was blowing. Yesterday, he sent us the following material
which we are now posting. Some of it is outrageous in the extreme but
to date, no one has proven him wrong.

September 19, 2004: "This afternoon, while schmoozing a minor aide, I
saw a copy of a Pentagon memo concerning the forthcoming draft. I
could not copy this and it took me about twenty minutes, in brief
segments, to read it through. The White House and the Pentagon have
worked out a plan to call up all reservists and National Guard units
if and when Bush is reelected. The moment that the election results
are poured in concrete, orders, now drawn up and waiting, will be
issued throughout the United States. I am not speaking of a few units
but all US Guard and Reserve units. On the same subject, the pending
Universal Draft is also a done deal. Everything is place awaiting the
President's signature. This is planned for June of 2005 and contains
some real shockers. Women will be called up as well as men. There will
be absolutely no deferments of any kind permitted. Persons with
medical problems such as diabetes, cardio-vascular disease, chronic
asthma, physical deformities such as a club foot or hunch back, vision
problems, etc. will be called up! If a draftee has a medical problem
but can move around, they are subject to the draft but will be
assigned to non-military positions such as clerk-typists, maintenance
positions and so on. There will be absolutely no deferments for
someone with a family to support or who is enrolled in any kind of a
school. Students may be permitted to complete their semester and will
then be compelled to report at once to their nearest enlistment
center. For example, as I read it, an 18 year old girl with two
children and no husband to support her will be subject to the draft.
There was a discussion about what to do with the children and if the
family cannot raise them during the draftee's tour of duty, then some
kind of Federal Child Care center will have to suffice. The nominal
ages covered are from 18 through 26 but a special exception is now in
the orders for anyone with what the Army calls "technical skills" such
as proficiency in computers, foreign language skills and so on. These
poor jerks are subject to the draft until they are 35! Again, no
deferments will be allowed unless the subject is already working for a
government agency and is certified by his superiors as "vital" to
whatever "war effort" the Army deems important. These orders, note,
came from the desk of George W. Bush to Rumsfeld but Bush will cite a
vague"national crisis" to cover his useless ass. The top brass at the
Pentagon are having fits about this. Why? Because for decades they
have been downsizing, closing bases and so on. I have been told by
Pentagon people that they would have no place to put the anticipated
great flood of draftees if and when the draft is activated. One said
to me, "Where the **** do these dimbulbs expect us to house them? In
local hotels?"

Comment: Because the subject of a universal draft is Bush's political
Achilles Heel, the Administration and various governmental agencies
have gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal it from the public.
Nevertheless, anyone with a computer and basic skills can locate
information on the upcoming draft by looking at dozens of official
government sites. Admittedly, these sites are so buried in the
official underbrush as to be difficult to locate, nevertheless, they
are there. We have included an anti-draft article in this posting. If
America's cannon fodder do not want end up dead or mangled for life,
it would be to their advantage to read these sites, organize and in
November, vote en bloc against the man who would cheerfully dump them
into the Imperial sausage grinder. Because Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld
all went to great pains to avoid any kind of military service during
the Vietnamese war, their present macho militancy stinks and shines
like a dead mackerel in the moonlight.
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



Top
#272435 - 09/25/04 05:42 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
thesled Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 261
Loc: MLT
Mr Bellows,
I never said I dont respect CG men and what they do. I was trying to throw in a perspective between the two services. As for you not knowing what I was talking about, I would count that towards the fact that you have no clue what its like to even serve your country in ANY service. Sit down and have a nice cup of tea and toast it to the true patriots standing guard while you sit and type on your computer.
_________________________
"Good were surrounded. This just simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC

Top
#272436 - 09/25/04 05:45 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
thesled Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 261
Loc: MLT
That previous post to Maui was in response to his bull$h!t post previously.

Thanks Bellows, there is a recruiting office near you.
_________________________
"Good were surrounded. This just simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC

Top
#272437 - 09/25/04 06:13 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by thesled:

I was trying to throw in a perspective between the two services. [/QB]
------------------------------------------------------------

We'll just let what you said speak for itself.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

Top
#272438 - 09/25/04 08:07 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
kjackson Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 558
Loc: Port Townend, WA
Here's an article from this morning's Seattle Times: I think it makes a pretty good point that if you're going to be drafted, you can thank McDermott:




Saturday, September 25, 2004 - Page updated at 12:00 A.M.

Fears of draft reinstatement persist despite official denials

By Wayne Woolley
Newhouse News Service
NEWARK, N.J. — The phones at the Selective Service System ring more frequently these days. Some callers are nothing short of hysterical.

Officials at the federal agency that would be responsible for running any future military draft say they have been receiving thousands of calls in recent months from people who are under the impression that mandatory conscription is imminent for men and women ages 18 to 26.

Janice Hughes, a public- and intergovernmental-affairs specialist with the agency, fielded one call from an American woman calling from Italy on a cellphone. "She heard there would be a draft of women, and she didn't want to come back," Hughes said.

Hughes gave her stock reply: "It's not true. We would know."

The calls keep coming even after repeated assurances from the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol Hill that there is no desire, need or plan for a draft.

That may be because fears the draft will be resurrected after 31 years of dormancy continue to be stoked in Internet chat rooms and chain e-mails. Most recently, on the presidential-campaign trail, surrogates of Democratic candidate John Kerry — former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland — suggested the possibility of a draft if President Bush wins a second term.

At a campaign appearance in Oregon last week, Vice President Dick Cheney said the all-volunteer military remains America's best option and it would take a crisis "on the scale of World War II before I would think that anybody would seriously contemplate the possibility of going back again to the draft."

Kerry flatly opposed a military draft at a campaign stop Wednesday in Florida.

The Vietnam-era draft ended in 1973. The Selective Service System was created in 1980 to keep a database of men ages 18 to 26 in the event of a future draft. Women are not eligible to be drafted under current law.

Barry Zellen, 41, a Boston technical writer who created the Web site StopTheDraft.com in 1999, has watched visits to his site rise. But he gives little credence to current rumors that the government will restart the draft on June 15, 2005.

"The Internet is helping propagate the myth that there is a secret government plan," Zellen said.

The first catalyst came in January 2003, when Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., and Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., introduced separate bills calling for draft-age men and women to perform military or civilian government service.

Rep. Jim McDermott of Seattle, one of four Democratic co-sponsors of Rangel's bill, introduced before the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, said the legislation was intended to ensure that the burden of military service is not borne disproportionately by the poor and some minority groups.

"I believe that if those who are pushing for war knew that their children might be required to share the burden of that war, there might be a greater willingness to work toward peace and a diplomatic solution," McDermott said at the time. "If, despite our best efforts, we end up in armed conflict, then fairness dictates that the sons and daughters of all classes participate."

Rangel and Hollings also were vocal opponents of the Iraq war, and both conceded that neither bill had a chance of coming to a vote in the Republican-controlled Congress.

The second catalyst came less than a year ago when the Selective Service System issued a call for volunteers to fill vacancies on local draft boards.

Richard Flahavan, a spokesman for the Selective Service System, said the people propagating the rumors apparently didn't realize that local draft boards have been in place since 1980 — and the roughly 10,000 board members serve 20-year terms, which have expired.

Flahavan said the draft warnings also cite inaccurate government figures. Most of the Internet draft warnings say $28 million has "been added" to the Selective Service System budget this year. That figure actually was the total budget the agency requested this year. Congress approved a $26 million budget.

Most e-mails warning of impending conscription begin with the words: "Mandatory draft for boys and girls (age 18-26) starting June 15, 2005, is something that everyone should know about."

Even members of peace-advocacy groups have grown weary of calls about the rumor.

"That e-mail doesn't die. It's got a lot of inaccuracies in it," said Bill Galvin, a counseling coordinator with the Center on Conscience and War, a conscientious-objectors organization in Washington. "We're getting so tired of answering questions about the stupid thing."

That doesn't mean Galvin is unconcerned that a draft might be a possibility, but he doesn't believe it would unfold in the way Internet rumors predict.

Still, unease persists on college campuses, which have been blanketed by e-mails warning about the draft.

At Rutgers University, Newark, Eugene Heimur said his mother read the e-mail.

"She freaked out," said Heimur, 19, of Rutherford, N.J. "She told me I could get drafted and I was like, 'Are you serious?' It's crazy."

Kenneth Campbell, a University of Delaware political-science professor who served as a combat Marine in Vietnam, said college students would weigh heavily in any political calculus of reinstating a draft.

"A draft would create a firestorm. These campuses would explode," he said. "That's what's kept a lot of kids quiet about Iraq. They weren't under the gun."

Details on McDermott were provided by the House Web site (www.house.gov).

Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

E-mail E-mail this article

Print Print this article

Print Search archive

Get home delivery for $1.95 per week
More nation & world headlines...

NATION/WORLD NEWS
SEARCH

Today Archive

Advanced search
NWSOURCE SHOPPING
shop newspaper ads
Go



advertising


seattletimes.com home
Home delivery | Contact us | Search archive | Site map | Low-graphic
NWclassifieds | NWsource | Advertising info | The Seattle Times Company

Copyright

Back to topBack to top

Top
#272439 - 09/25/04 09:05 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
thesled Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 261
Loc: MLT
Like i said bellows,
have a nice cup of tea
_________________________
"Good were surrounded. This just simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC

Top
#272440 - 09/25/04 10:50 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
John Lee Hookum Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2505
Loc: Area 51
http://www.blatanttruth.org/alert.htm

Special Military Draft Alert

September 14, 2004

Please distribute this content and the official SSS draft document,
the Feb. 11, 2003 "Issue Paper," to all college newspaper editors, in
LTTEs [ letters to the editor] and mass e- mails.

Not to be confused with draft legislation introduced by Congressman
Charles Rangel in 2003 and it is not associated with any Democrat.
This PLAN is the work entirely of George W. Bush and his Republican
comrades.

This is a SPECIAL MILITARY DRAFT ALERT. In May, the Seattle Post
Intelligencer published an article about a document they received
through the Freedom of Information Act. It was revealed that the SSS
is currently "designing procedures" for the implementation of a
"Skills Draft" and had held a top-level meeting on it with Deputy
Undersecretaries at the Defense Department. This draft would change
the essential mission of the Selective Service and require "virtually
every young American," male and female ages 18–34, to register for the
Skills Draft and list all the occupations they are proficient in to
fill labor shortages throughout nearly the entire government. If
enacted, the Skills Draft proposed in this FOI- recovered document
would change America as we know it.

The Pentagon is suffering from immediate labor shortages. Recently,
the inactive Ready Reserve had to be called up for the first time
since the Gulf War to fill 5,600 job shortages in the Armed Forces.
DoD said in the recent IRR callup "20% of the call-ups are truck
drivers, 12% are supply specialists who can use a computer to track
supplies, 10% are Humvee mechanics, 7% are administrative specialists
and 6% are combat engineers" (USA Today, August 8, 2004).

Although Congress would have to approve new legislation to create a
Skills Draft or reinstate the combat draft, Family Circle reported in
its July 13 issue that Karl Rove had polled GOP members of Congress in
September 2002 to see if they would support the President if he
requests reinstatement. The Republicans said they would vote for the
draft. They would likely support the new legislation needed to create
the Skills Draft. While Bush and the Republicans are of course keeping
the return of the draft and the new skills draft as quiet as possible,
many anti-draft organizations have recently begun warning of a "Coming
New Draft. "

The Issue Paper document was revealed through the Freedom of
Information Act by Seattle Post Intelligencer reporter Eric Rosenberg,
who wrote a partial explanation of it that was printed May 1, 2004.

Rosenberg's article was edited, however, and some key points about
this document were omitted in the published article. What follows is a
full explanation of the document.

This document is real, having been acknowledged by the DoD and the SSS
when they said no action is being taken on it at the present time.
However, given the current manpower shortages for certain skills and
nurses, if Bush gets back in, expect all the options outlined in the
Issue Paper to be implemented by the end of December of this year, and
at the least a non-combat skills and medical draft to start next year,
if not the male combat draft, ages 18 –25.

Despite Rumsfeld saying the draft is not needed, this is the same
neo-con administration that has repeatedly lied to and misled the
American people. Draft-age youth and their families are left looking
at a "long, hard slog" in Iraq (Rumsfeld secret memo), the neo-con
plans to invade still more nations, and then having to take Rumsfeld
and Cheney's word not to worry about the draft, that they "are not
considering it at this time."

Although official word is that this secret list of options is not
being implemented—the Issue Paper options have NOT been rejected and
the 6-page proposal is rather sitting in the Pentagon, waiting. In
addition, the SSS itself has said that it is "designing procedures"
(Seattle PI, May 1, 2004) to implement the skills draft, meaning
designing the compliance cards and the data fields needed to keep
track of "virtually every young American" and their skills. Acting
Director of the SSS Brodsky has also said the Skills Draft is the "top
priority" of the Selective Service for 2004.

From the FOI document, we now know that on February 11, 2003, Charles
Abell, the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and
Readiness, and William Carr, Deputy Undersecretary for Military
Personnel Policy, met with Lewis Brodsky, the Acting Director of the
Selective Service and some other officials. This is the highest-level
meeting you could have about the Selective Service, outside of
Rumsfeld and his inner circle. They were there to discuss the urgent
"issue paper" now revealed, which starts: "With known shortages of
military personnel with certain critical skills, and with the need for
the nation to be capable of responding to domestic emergencies as a
part of Homeland Security Planning, changes should be made in the
Selective Service System's registration program and primary mission."

Although it would require changes in current draft law, the
far-reaching proposal shows how far the Republicans are going to plan
and prepare for a huge expansion of the draft. The Issue Paper options
include:

* Change the very mission of the SSS to become a massive
conscription service in the War on Terror for the entire government.
* Conscript men and women in a critical skills non-combat draft up
to age 34 with no deferments of any kind, except "essential community
service" (like the Medical Draft).
* Allow a non-combat draft for shortages in critical skills,
without calling a combat draft.
* Fill labor shortages of all kinds throughout not only DoD but
the whole government, especially high-paying professionals like
computer networking specialist or linguist.
* Create a massive database of "virtually every young American"
ages 18 to 34. This database would be used to draft in war and to
recruit in peacetime. State and even local governments would be given
access to the names for recruitment and help in emergencies.
* Create a single-point, all-inclusive database, in which every
young person would be forced to send in a "self-declaration" of all of
their critical skills, chosen from a long list of occupations like the
Armed Forces Specialty Code. The self-declaration is similar to IRS
compliance and the filling out and signing of your tax forms. All
young people would be required to keep the government updated if they
acquired a new skill. SSS Compliance forms will be available at every
Post Office. The usual penalties of imprisonment and/or a $250,000
fine would apply to all non-registrants.
* A draft or recruitment could be for any one of the skills you
self- declare on the compliance form, not your current or primary
skill. This greatly increases your chance of being drafted if you are
18–34.
* Bring the Medical Draft (HCPDS) up to speed and fully test it
through readiness exercises.
* Reduce induction time from being able to deliver all inductees
in 193 days down to just 90 days for skills inductees.

This secret paper urges the mission be changed "promptly," meaning
they really need it, it would draft for the Pentagon as well as the
enormous Homeland Security branches as well as other government
agencies, even state and local!

For obvious political reasons, the decision was made by Bush, Cheney
and Rove to sit on this 6-page proposal until after the election in
November. Yet the SSS was told to go ahead and begin "designing
procedures" for the Skills Draft in 2004 and make it their "top
priority." It can be expected that if Bush gets back in, and the DoD
and SSS are still asking for the Skills Draft, the "Next Steps" part
of the document will be put into action and the most expansive option
to change the SSS mission will be rapidly legislated.

In the secret planning meeting document, the next steps strongly
recommended by SSS Acting Director Brodsky were:

1. "Promptly" redefine the SSS Mission to draft men and women up to
age 34 for skills, and deliver them within 90 days or sooner to the
Department of Defense. Program a massive database to be ready to enter
millions of names of those registering their critical skills.

2. Expand mission to deliver personnel in skills draft to the
Department of Homeland Security and other agencies, including FEMA,
NSC, Border Patrol, INS, Customs, Corporation for National Service,
Public Health Service and other federal, state and local government
agencies.

3. Form interagency task force to provide Administration with
recommendation on this skills draft for the entire DHS and the rest of
the government.

4. Obtain White House Statement of Administration Policy on the future
of the SSS.

5. Be prepared to market the skills draft, raising the non-combat age
to 34 and the drafting of women to the Armed Services and
Appropriations Committee.

This proposed expansion of the draft, forcing all people under 35 to
register with the SSS, man or woman, is primarily proposed, according
to the document, because the cost of providing contract professionals,
like computer network specialists, would be "prohibitive." In this
way, the proposed Skills Draft would help preserve Bush's massive tax
cuts for the wealthy by lowering the massive budget deficits.

That's the new Skills Draft and the secret document behind it. But
what about the Combat Draft?

Selective Service has been registering young men for over twenty years
and at any moment the President can go to Congress and ask them to
reauthorize conscription for the male combat draft for ages 18–25. It
doesn't take much to imagine a re-elected Bush going to Congress and
saying "We cannot cut and run from Iraq or the War on Terror. I need
you to reauthorize conscription."

And they would not have to pass a whole new draft law to do it. All
that is needed is a "trigger resolution," which could be passed in the
dead of night—and bingo! No debate, no regular bill, just a short
resolution passed quickly and the draft for men 18 to 25 is back.

That is why the Democratic draft resolution being offered by Rangel
and Hollings is totally irrelevant. These are known protest bills and
actually propose drafting women for the combat draft, just to make
sure they will never see the light of day. Rangel and Hollings offered
them to raise the issue and confront Bush. Hollings even said he
wouldn't vote for his own bill!

They are not needed—and the press and the Republicans will bring them
up as red herrings to distract everyone from what is really going on:
the Republicans, and the SSS are quietly, behind the scenes, oiling up
the draft machinery—getting ready to reinstate for the Spring of 2005.
Taken singly, each of the clues indicating the return and expansion of
the draft might seem insignificant but when you add them all up with
what the Selective Service is doing to gear up the combat draft, a
clear pattern emerges, leading to the inescapable conclusion that a
Bush re-election will see not only a Skills Draft, but a return of the
Combat Draft as well.

What is the proof? The government's own document, the SSS Performance
Plan for Fiscal Year 2004.

The Selective Service System, or the SSS, has for decades operated at
a low level of readiness. Readiness Exercises are conducted on a
multi-year cycle but historically these have been little more than
getting draft board volunteers together and going over the procedures
of what would happen under reinstatement and training new members
every summer. And the draft boards themselves have become 80% vacant
over the decades.

In the current 5-year cycle of exercises, however, the SSS is clearly
ramping up the draft machinery to an unprecedented level.

"Strategic Objective 1.2: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 56
State Headquarters, 442 Area Offices and 1,980 Local Boards are
operational within 75 days of an authorized return to conscription."

Tie that to this objective:

An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these
performance measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005.

75 days from March 31, 2005 is about June 15, 2005. According to the
2004 plan, the draft boards will be "operational" then, meaning that
they will be set up in 1,980 local offices around the country. If Bush
asks for reinstatement on April 1, Congress could pass it that night
and the first batch of more than one million 20 year-olds would face
the national lottery as soon as that date, June 15, 2005.

Here is how the $28 million is being spent according to the official
document. Although the Senate rejected the funding request to bump up
the SSS budget to $28 million, the SSS says in one paragraph of the
Performance Plan that budgets will be "adjusted" to cover the
additional cost for 2004:

Strategic Goal 1: Increase the effectiveness and efficiency of the
Manpower Delivery Systems (Projected allocation for FY 2004: $7,942,000)

Strategic Goal 2: Improve overall Registration Compliance and Service
to the Public (Projected allocation FY 2004: $8,769,000)

Strategic Goal 3: Enhance external and internal customer service
(Projected allocation for FY 2004: $10 ,624,000)

Strategic Goal 4: Enhance the system which guarantees that each
conscientious objector is properly classified, placed, and monitored.
(Projected allocation for FY 2004: $955,000)

In analyzing each of the 2004 goals in detail it is obvious that there
are hidden "activation bombshells" in this so-called Performance Plan.
Goal number 1 in particular brings the combat induction process up to
95% operational readiness, going so far as to actually hold a mock
lottery drawing this year and to issue sample orders to report for the
famous medical exam. The document does not reveal the day in 2004 the
mock lottery is to be held.

In addition, the Medical Draft, or Health Care Personnel Delivery
System (HCPDS in the document), is for the first time brought up to
full readiness by next year. This draft would take men and women up to
age 44 if they are doctors, nurses or one of 60-some medical
specialties. No medical deferments allowed. Previous readiness
exercises merely went over what would happen with HCPDS and updated
the guide. The 2004 plan actually develops a readiness exercise for
the Medical Draft that would be conducted next year. Plus HCPDS must
be ready to conscript by June, being part of the system.

Goal number four is particularly ominous:

Strategic Objective 4.1: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 48
Alternative Service Offices and 48 Civilian Review Boards are
operational within 96 days after notification of a return to induction.

Strategic Objective 4.2: Develop a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
for the Alternative Service Employer Network to specifically identify
organizations and associations who can, by law, participate in the
Alternative Service Program. This network will provide jobs for ASWs
at the local level. Prior to activation, SSS will develop a draft MOU
for use when obtaining agreements with qualified employers at the
local and national level.

For 31 years, the Conscientious Objector system, called the
Alternative Service, has lain dormant. The 2004 plan also calls for
this to be brought up to speed and to be ready to decide cases and
place COs in the Alternative Service by July 6, 2005 (96 days after
March 31, 2005). The SSS is even going so far as to draw up the SOPs,
the Standard Operating Procedures which identify local employers
eligible to receive cheap AS workers and to also draw up the actual
MOU, the Memorandum of Understanding the employer must sign to get
their CO workers and allow their mandatory attendance to be monitored.
This is the last obstacle to be hurdled before the draft could
actually be ready for quick activation under the law.

In sharp contrast to all this preparation for a Spring 2005 draft by
Bush, Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry has proposed a
military plan that rejects any draft, by adding 20,000 active duty
combat soldiers and 20,000 active "reconstruction specialists." At a
Wisconsin high school, Kerry pledged in June, 2004, that the draft
would be "absolutely unnecessary." When asked in April by 130 college
editors in a conference call as to whether he would support a draft,
John Kerry said unequivocally: "No. No draft" and he has criticized
the use of the Guard and Reserve and now the Individual Ready Reserve
as a "back-door draft."

Kerry plans to spend an additional $7 billion to strengthen the
Volunteer Army in what is essentially a "No-Draft Plan," Moreover,
Kerry is strongly opposed to the neo-con plan revealed in Wes Clark's
book, in which Clark was told by a senior Pentagon official that
invasions of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Sudan and Somalia are still to come
over the next three years.
_________________________

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of
Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter
of the gods.

-- Albert Einstein



Top
#272441 - 09/27/04 12:29 PM Re: You're gonna get drafted !
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
JLH,

I noticed alot of your cut and pastes are directed at college kids. Is that what you are or just the mentalitiy?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  The Moderator 
Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Skate
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 1323 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13523
eyeFISH 12767
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63779 Topics
645378 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |