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#282422 - 10/13/05 11:57 AM Please send cash?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Looks like we are having zero effect on Al Queada . We arrest on of their top dogs and the Zawahiri is asking for money from Iraq. Sounds like life on the run is wearing thin. as well.
Hard to imagine that Al Queada thinks the central battle ground against the infidel west is Iraq agreeing with GW. I mean since the "populist", the free thinkers , the intellectuals and the left all think the war in Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror.

What do you free thinks have to say about this? Oh thats right this is a plant by the administration, Haliburton the oil companies and aliens intent on mind control ;\)


"Zawahiri's Lament; What our enemy thinks about Iraq.

Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Ayman al Zawahiri and George W. Bush don't agree on much. But al Qaeda's No. 2 leader and the U.S. President are in accord on one thing: Iraq is the central battlefield.

This is just one of the many insights into the mind of the terrorist braintrust gleaned from an extraordinary document obtained this summer by U.S. forces in Iraq and released yesterday by the White House. It is a 6,000-word letter from Zawahiri, presumably in hiding in Pakistan, to al Qaeda's commander in Iraq, Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

We're glad the Administration made the decision to declassify it. It goes a long way toward letting Americans see what we are up against in Iraq and elsewhere in the world. The letter's full text is up on the Web site of the Director of National Intelligence at http://www.dni.gov.

Those who want a premature U.S. withdrawal from Iraq will now have to explain why that won't play into the hands--and plans--of the enemy. Zawahiri makes it quite clear that al Qaeda's ambitions extend well beyond the borders of any one country. The goal is a fundamentalist Islamic regime that begins in Iraq, extends into the neighboring secular nations of the region, assaults Israel and moves on from there. And yes, he uses the word "caliphate."

But let Zawahiri speak for himself. The jihadists, he writes, "must not have their mission end with the expulsion of the Americans from Iraq, and then lay down their weapons, and silence the fighting zeal." Plainly said, these boys are in it for the long haul. Just because the U.S. might decide to pull out of Iraq hardly means that al Qaeda will stop trying to kill Americans. Notwithstanding Zawahiri's chilling language, the good news here is that the tone of the correspondence with his mass murder colleague in Iraq often borders on the desperate. Zawahiri hardly sounds like a commander on the brink of victory. He is clearly worried that the jihadists are losing in Iraq. He devotes a large portion of his letter to a critique of Zarqawi's tactics, counseling him to do more to win "public support" among the Iraqi Shiite majority.

Don't attack mosques, he advises. Don't target ordinary people. "Many of your Muslim admirers amongst common folk are wondering about your attacks on the Shi'a," he writes. Such strikes amount to "action that the masses do not understand or approve."

As for the Sunnis, he urges Zarqawi to cast a wider net--an implicit admission that he's worried about Sunnis who have been showing signs of interest in the democratic political process unfolding there. Afghanistan--and the Islamic democracy emerging in that nation--is his worst nightmare. "We don't want to repeat the mistake of the Taliban, who restricted participation in governance to the students and the people of Kandahar alone," he says. "The result was that the Afghan people disengaged themselves from them. Even devout ones took the stance of the spectator and when the invasion came, the emirate collapsed in days, because the people were either passive or hostile."

Zawahiri's also not feeling too peachy about his personal situation. He recounts the death of his "favorite" wife and a daughter after the collapse of their house during an apparent American bombing. He admits to a "real danger" from the Pakistani army, which is pursuing al Qaeda in tribal areas. He mourns the capture of al Qaeda big shots, and oh by the way, he asks Zarqawi to send him $100,000.

The letter is dated July 9, two days after the London subway bombings, of which there is no mention; this suggests that life in a cave, or whatever redoubt in which he is holed up, doesn't include the basic amenity of daily news access. He asks whether the full text of a speech he had sent to al Jazeera was actually broadcast in June.

Amid these lamentations, however, one area emerges about which the terror commander exudes great confidence: the media. The lesson he learned from Vietnam is that "more than half of the battle is taking place on the battlefield of the media." He clearly wants to use the media, in the U.S. and in the Arab world, to induce the U.S. to pull out of Iraq and default a position of strength to al Qaeda. He actually worries about the possibility that Zarqawi will blow victory on the media battlefield: Toward this end, he gently urges Zarqawi to discontinue his habit of beheading hostages, suggesting that perhaps instead he could just shoot them. "We are in a media race for . . . hearts and minds," he writes.

The long Zawahiri letter is a rough roadmap of the strategic vision for al Qaeda's intentions in Iraq and the global jihad. If it has a familiar ring, that's because George Bush has been warning the world about it for several years."


From: Rhody Date: 13-Oct-05 Private Reply


No NaVaGvUp, this is just a White House prapaganda hoax..... I can hear it already...


From: strangedays Date: 13-Oct-05 Private Reply


http://www.indepundit.com/archive2/2005/10/al_qaedas_woes.html#

Al Qaeda's WoesYOU MUST READ the captured letter from al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri to Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi (leader of al Qaeda in Iraq). Yes, it’s a long read, and full of Islamic flourishes, but take the time and read it all the way through. You won’t regret it.

In short: it's a mash letter -- Zawahiri is NOT PLEASED with the way Zarqawi is handling the jihad in Iraq.

Much has already been said about Zawahiri’s four-part plan for domination of the Middle East (see John Hinderaker and Austin Bay). I’ll have more to say on that later -- but first, check out this little gem that I found buried in the letter:

The enemy struck a blow against us with the arrest of Abu al-Faraj, may God break his bonds. [...] Our situation since Abu al-Faraj is good by the grace of God, but many of the lines have been cut off. Because of this, we need a payment while new lines are being opened. So, if you're capable of sending a payment of approximately one hundred thousand, we'll be very grateful to you. That’s right: Zawahiri is begging Zarqawi for more funds.

We’re winning.

http://cheatseekingmissiles.blogspot.com/

Z/Z Flop: Zarqawi And The Media The US Central Command has posted an analysis of the "Zawahiri/Zarqawi" letter. Central commands are often accused of being overly optimistic about the US prospects in the wars they are centrally commanding, but this analysis is largely exempt from such criticisms, since it's in the words of the enemy.

It's just a page or two long and spells out seven themes, four that refresh as Qaeda's goals, beliefs and strategies, and three that discuss how badly the GWOT is hurting them.

A major theme among the first set is aQ's recognition that the media is key to their success or failure:

Zawahiri clearly is worried they are losing public support in Iraq, and is attuned to the role of the media in the battle for such support.

Zawahiri emphasizes that the struggle is ideological, with each side competing for the popular support and loyalty of the Muslim world. Zarqawi’s methods are backfiring by alienating the Iraqi people with attacks against the Shia. Two points:

If Zarqawi follows commands, expect the campaign of suicide and car bombs against civilian Iraqi targets to slow or end with the upcoming constitutional vote -- and turn more aggressively against US targets. There's no PR for aQ in killing Muslims, so they have no choice but to take on strategically much more complicated missions.

Second, now that they have had their role clearly spelled out to them, how will the media respond. Z/Z is more concerned with the Arab media, which might just fall for a "PR campaign" based around killing Americans instead of Arabs.

But what about the US media? It's clear Z/Z is hoping for a media uprising against the Iraq war as effective as the one against Vietnam. Will knowing this affect their coverage?

I doubt it. Their eyes have been put out by the God of Objectivity, a bruttal god who is not to be confused with the much more munificent God of Fairness or the powerful but difficult God of Common Sense.

They will say that cannot let externals influence their coverage, and they will put this silliness ahead of the lives of our troops and the future of the world, to their eternal shame.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282424 - 10/13/05 02:14 PM Re: Please send cash?
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 783
Loc: Everett, WA USA
Wouldn't believe anything that comes out of the outhoust, I mean White house these days. Consider the source before you put too much trust in anything delivered from the G.W. white house. Open your eyes and ears, the truth will set you free all you DITTO HEADS.
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

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#282425 - 10/13/05 03:05 PM Re: Please send cash?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12530
TK,

Good news, if it’s true. I have no way of knowing, but would give it credence if corroborated by multiple sources. Like KK says, I too think it’s the wrong war, wrong place, and wrong time, but neither have I advocated withdrawal. This seems to be an opinion common to critical thinkers. I don’t know what the “free thinkers” think. Now that we’re stuck with a mess in Iraq, perhaps Zawahiri will give the U.S. a greater legitimacy for being there.

Recall that the terrorists, for the most part, were not in Iraq when Saddam was in charge. The U.S. presence seems to have attracted them, mostly from outside Iraq’s borders. However, it could also be that U.S. presence in Iraq has served to create more terrorists than there were before. Maybe “taking the war to the terrorists” has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I continue to believe that the most appropriate response to 911 would have been to hunt down anti-US terrorists, wherever they are, and kill them. The public supported it throughout the Afghanistan action and would support it still. To the extent that the public discerns a disconnect between responding to 911 and the war in Iraq, and as that war incurs costs in dollars and US lives with little or no perceived progress, support will wane, and opposition will increase.

If Zawahiri really is recentering Al Qaeda’s actions to Iraq, that’s unfortunate for Iraq and will probably extend misfortune to the U.S. Misfortune I think, because it seems to be nigh on impossible to fight an invisible army, which is what guerilla warfare is. It will be easier for Al Qaeda to win “hearts and minds” because they’re Arab and Muslim and can blend in with the Iraqis. It will be difficult, if not impossible, for the U.S. to win those hearts and minds because we’re invaders, non-Arabs, non-Muslim, and we kill multiple innocent Iraqi civilians for every insurgent or terrorist killed. That part is very reminiscent of why the U.S. lost in Viet Nam.

If Zarqawi heeds Zawahiri’s advice/request, insurgents will become easier targets for US military action. Whether that will allow us to actually win the war remains uncertain, although I think doubtful for the reasons I expressed above.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#282426 - 10/13/05 03:13 PM Re: Please send cash?
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
Yup,

"Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror."

No....Iraq HAD nothing to do with the war on terror.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#282428 - 10/13/05 04:30 PM Re: Please send cash?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Only took for posts for the conspiracy theroy to pop up and two one of them was yours KK. I would bet that is an offical record.

Stever, Saying everyhting someone says is a lie is no substitute for thinking.

Stlhd,

Just like Vietnam had nothing to do with the USSR and China ,Laos and Cambodia.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282429 - 10/13/05 04:38 PM Re: Please send cash?
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by Salmo g.:

It will be difficult, if not impossible, for the U.S. to win those hearts and minds because we’re invaders, non-Arabs, non-Muslim, and we kill multiple innocent Iraqi civilians for every insurgent or terrorist killed. That part is very reminiscent of why the U.S. lost in Viet Nam.


Sincerely,

Salmo g.
-----------------------------------------------------------


' and we kill multiple innocent Iraqi civilians for every insurgent or terrorist killed.'

How many innocent civilians were killed while Saddam Husein was calling the shots?

The innocent civilans that have died in Iraq at the hands of United States servicemen have lost their lives accidentally and without pre-meditation or the willful intent of the American service personnel.

Al Qaeda and the murderous Islamo-facists terrorist insurgents are knowingly and intentionally killing multiple innocent Iraqi men, women anc CHILDREN every chance they get
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#282431 - 10/13/05 04:56 PM Re: Please send cash?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Here is an interesting read. 112 pages of islamic terror attacks listed 3069 attacks since 911. I suppose using the lefty criteria of you can only attack if you have been attacked we would pretty much have the whole world dlowing the crap out of the middle east.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/default.htm#attacks


I will post another link soon that will show you how many Euorpean nations are expelling muslims and be out right discriminatory against the religion of peace.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282433 - 10/13/05 10:52 PM Re: Please send cash?
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
Bush needs terrorists therefore TK needs terrorists.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#282435 - 10/14/05 11:03 AM Re: Please send cash?
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 783
Loc: Everett, WA USA
Quote:
Stever, Saying everyhting someone says is a lie is no substitute for thinking.
I never said it was all lies but you did and I think you are right ;\)
Lets see now, first it was always mentioning Al'Quida and Iraq in the same sentence although there has never been any connection. Then there are the missing WMDs. Isn't that the reason we are currently in Iraq? In the mean time North Korea has several nukes in their hands but they don't have oil. Then there are the fake news stories that have been released by the current administration and the fake reporter that was planted by the White House. Oh did I mention he was a GAY Republican. Then there is the little story involving the president 's and vice prisident's chiefs of staff, Libby and Rove and the cover up that has gone on for the last two years to protect them. No I didn't say it was all lies but it kind of hard to separate the pepper from the fly sh!t. So I think it is prudent to at least question what ever the current adminstration says and for that matter whom ever is in power. Power corrupts and with the republicans holding all the power in both houses and the oval office there are no checks and ballances. They have mannaged to become consumed by it in the last 10 years like kids in the candy store. Under two republican presidents we have amassed over 90% of our current national debt, oh by the way you current share of it is over $35K. Time to PARTY $35K.
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

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#282436 - 10/14/05 11:06 AM Re: Please send cash?
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Yes I admit my real name is I Ben Pharting and I am an Islamo Facist. Allah Akbar!
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282437 - 10/14/05 03:51 PM Re: Please send cash?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12530
Rory,

You’ll probably never get it, but the Arab world gives a deference to Arab rulers - even Saddam - that they don’t give to Westerners, especially the United States. It doesn’t matter to them that the U.S. isn’t deliberately killing innocent civilians as collateral damage. It matters that the U.S. kills Arabs and Muslims that haven’t conducted terrorist activities against the U.S. Heck, they might even hold it against us for killing Arabs and Muslims who have committed terrorist acts against the U.S. The picture is getting kinda’ murky out there.

Just like in Viet Nam, NVA and Viet Cong especially, routinely killed innocent civilians. They didn’t like it, but they were all Vietnamese, and for the most part would stand together in opposing or at least not cooperating with the U.S. and the corrupt puppet South Vietnamese government we propped up. As was often reported, if an open election had been held in S. Viet Nam, Ho Chi Minh would have won by a landslide. Ethnic nationals don’t like governments that are U.S. props and puppets. They will stick together.

Although it would seem crazy, I wouldn’t be surprised if in an open Iraqi election, Al Qaeda candidates would draw more votes than U.S. supported and approved candidates.

Maybe Rory, if you ever develop your own critical thinking skills, you’ll catch on that Arabs and Muslims are generally distrustful of the U.S. And the more of them we kill, regardless of how accidental the reason, the more of them, and the more they are likely to think that way.

I resubmit, we will not win Arab or Muslim hearts and minds. Not in Iraq. Not anywhere.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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#282438 - 10/14/05 04:43 PM Re: Please send cash?
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Salmo,

We're not trying to get Iraqis to sing 'God Bless America'.

If representative government, free speach and free markets take root and blossom in Iraq so that anyone who works hard and applies themselves has a chance to prosper--that's what will win hearts and minds. That's also what has the best chance at spreading through out the rest of the Middle East.

When I made the distinction between innocent Iraqis dying at the hands of Americans vs. Islamo-facists (accidentally vs. intentually)--I wasn't commenting how the deaths were interpeted by muslims and Arabs outside of Iraq--I was referencing how I've heard the way their citizens of Iraq (the one who will ultimately have to defeat the insugent terrorists) are interpeted the cause of their deaths.

The Sunni leaders in Iraq have just agreed to sign on to the new Iraqi Constitutuon~these are the people (the Sunnis) who are believed to have helped hide and aid the insurgents terrorists. Their signing on to the Constitution is a huge step towards stabilizing Iraq and if they don't continue to help the insurgents (who have killing their own people) then they'll be easier to negate.

I can't believe the 'main-stream enlightened media' isn't giving much coverage to all the progress that's being made in Iraq--how Americans even know they're about to radify a historical Constitution in Iraq?
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#282439 - 10/14/05 04:46 PM Re: Please send cash?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 15195
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
I can't believe the 'main-stream enlightened media' isn't giving much coverage to all the progress that's being made in Iraq
You mean how the Sunnis are storming the HQ of the Sunni party and throwing grenades because their leadership turned coat and signed on to the new Constitution.

If you like their Constitution so much, how come you hate ours, Rory?
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#282440 - 10/14/05 04:56 PM Re: Please send cash?
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Dan,

I think the United States Constitution is a remarkable document~I want Supreme Court Judges appointed these days to strictly interpet it and not try and legislate from the bench (laws should be made in the legislative branch not in the court). If there's something in the Constitution that the American people feel needs to be amended the framers made provision for that to happen.

Do you believe SC Judges should be allowed to make rulings that have no Constitutional basis or merit?
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#282441 - 10/14/05 05:08 PM Re: Please send cash?
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
ARTICLE VI United States Constitution:

"Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. "

no religious Test, Rory.
So, what does you and your ilk say about "strict constructionist's" again?
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#282442 - 10/14/05 05:10 PM Re: Please send cash?
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
I'm thinking Miers first act should be to strictly uphold the constitution and step down from the supreme court.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#282443 - 10/14/05 05:32 PM Re: Please send cash?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 15195
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
I want Supreme Court Judges appointed these days to strictly interpet it
No you don't. Go lie to someone who will believe it.

The Constitution is interpreted by multiple justices every time a ruling is given. Let me guess...........your vast legal knowledge leads you to believe they are incorrectly interpreting the Constitution? In other words, you know more about Constitutional law than they do.



Face it, you're a US Constitution hater.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#282444 - 10/14/05 05:49 PM Re: Please send cash?
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Dan,

The Eminent domain case was just settled by multiple SC Judges~ Does that mean they made the right decision--do you believe because 5 judges (the most Liberal 'activist' judges on the court) rule a given way it's a Constitutionally sound ruling?

BTW--Still waiting for your answer to this question that wasn't meant to be rhetorical:

Do you believe SC Judges should be allowed to make rulings that have no Constitutional basis or merit?
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#282445 - 10/14/05 06:09 PM Re: Please send cash?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 15195
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
If that's what the Constitution says, then that's the way it is. Blame the framers of the Constitution.

Like I said, the Justices, ANY OF THEM, know the Constitution better than you do. Or are you a legal expert now?
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#282446 - 10/14/05 06:19 PM Re: Please send cash?
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
"Do you believe SC Judges should be allowed to make rulings that have no Constitutional basis or merit?"

Rory, can you name such a ruling ever? I'm not talking about your "opinion" versus Supreme court justices. Name such a ruling please.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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