This is very sad. If Todd's predictions come true and the chehalis system stays open despite failing to reach escapement I hope sport fisherman stay away. Perhaps we could even step up and petition WDFW to close the river. If the run has been over fished then sport impact should be avoided. If we just continue to fish knowing the escapement won't be met we are being no better then the tribes. I am sure not all of you will agree with me but I think we should be the bigger people and put our money where are mouth is if we as a group are so fed up with tribal over fishing then we as a group should prevent sport over fishing. My .02

1) Do guides have an association or group that can lobby for them? If not, create one to protect their interests.

2) Get the 3 main fishing boards together and set up a Paypal site for contributions for BIG ads in the major newspapers.

3) Prepare a standardized statement that people can download, fill in their names, etc. and mail to selected politicos.

4) Create an online petition.

5) Boycott 2005 licenses for a selected time period.

6) Get the media involved and let them know what we are doing i.e. license boycott.

The sporties don't have a COHESIVE voice to lobby. Maybe a guides association could be the central point for action. I'll put my money/time where my mouth is but there needs to be an organized, united front to represent OUR interests .

Even if the Chehalis (because of political fallout) doesn't close, attention needs to be brought to the BS that goes on. I'll be happy to help organize.

How many Washington residents do you think are registered on the 3 big fishing boards?

Just a few thoughts.

John

Funny how the WDFW purposely comes out & sez the rivers are NOT gonna close. Why would they say that? Yeah, leave it open so the run is wiped out & then we won't have to worry about if it's open or closed. Som Beach

I am all for action of any kind. If we could come up with a PayPal account I am in. I will volentarily not fish if escapement is not met and they keep the river open anyways. How about a hay bale fish-in like Bob did on the Quilliute a couple years back . Let's get this on the evening news. You would think thirty boats or more (sleds and drift boats together!) would justify some attention.

I do have a concern or question though, I am not sure that boycotting lisence sales is a good idea. Sure we could send a message to the Dept. but, what good could come from bancrupting our only "partner" in this regardless of their ineptnitude? Just curious if there is a logical argument there other than mere revenge?

The newest twist is that the regular season on the Chehalis and tribs will not be cut short, but that the projected extension for the season will not take place, as the extra fish for that extension aren't available anymore (already harvested).

Story continues to develop...I'm sure there will be some missing or inconsistent parts as this goes on...

Fish on...

Todd

Fishing the Quinault on the 5th with Robbin and will happily post my Hero shots on this board.

I'll leave it up to your imagination whether I just let those fish go, or just bonked them "because I could".

Oh yeah, and since you are all "experts" in the field of fisheries, I'll also let you decide if the fish I hold up are natives or just more of the plethora of unclipped hatchery fish you find on the Quinault.

:rolleyes:

Go ahead, take your best shots at me, DanS and Sparkey. I'm looking forward to it!

you need to get more sleep Parker.

Just got off the phone with WDFW, and here are the "official" numbers, so far:

Projected Tribal Take:
1955 wild fish, 2010 hatchery fish, 3905 total

Take to date:
1552 wild fish, 2372 hatchery fish, 3924 total

While the Quinaults are exceeding expectations with catch rate, they have not yet hit the projected wild fish harvest...the Chehalis and tribs will not close early, and the season extension (two weeks of WSR, hatchery fish retention) is still on the table.

That's the official word, as of right now.

Fish on...

Todd

Have fun parker. You whore! :p

The "co-managers" got more than their projected take, but will keep fishing till they kill as many wild steelhead as they are allowed???

Wow, I feel secure knowing these "co-managers" care so much about this resource. :rolleyes:

Todd wrote:
"...and the season extension (two weeks of WSR, hatchery fish retention) is still on the table."

This is what I was told by Fish Program Manager too

There are alot of rumors going around now, Fish Program will have something out by mid-week about this.

Last I heard there would be something out today...but I haven't seen it yet.

Greg Johnson from the PI will be covering the story, so keep your eyes on the papers, too.

Fish on...

Todd

Sent an email to Kirt Hughes, WDFW Chehalis river biologist

"Kirt:

Internet is full of "rumors" about Chehalis system and early closings.........What's going on????"


His answer......."It is a rumor; just a rumor. No closure is planned, thank you for asking."


email was sent---2/24/2005 12:36 pm

Now let find out if the "right hand, knows what the left hand is doing"????

"Worse day sport fishing still better than the best day working"

As much as I hate to see tribal abuses, the guides on the lower Quinalt are not part of it. They also do some netting, but only on the lower Quinalt, not anywhere else. So boycotting them is ignorant. They work for their money like any other guide on any river does. I have fished, and will continue to fish with them. But.........the rest of the tribal netters need some attention. I think maybe the feds need to come in and take over management for a while, as per the Boldt decision, and see how that works out. Remember, the only reason anyone knows anything about overfishing by tribes is because someone has a conscience at the WDF, but no voice to use it.

The state's attitude reminds me about one of my own character flaws that really used to pi$$ my wife off.

As she's waiting for me to get into the car for an appointment, she says "Hurry up, we're gonna be late" as I leisurely climb behind the wheel.

As we're speeding down the highway with only 10 minutes to get to a destination that's 20 minutes away, she would be screaming "We're late! We're late! You always do this"

I would matter-of-factly reply, "No we're NOT late.... yet."

A few miles later, as the clock would turn past the appointed time, I would turn to her and say, "Okay.... NOW we're late"

The state can see where this steelhead catch is gonna end up if it continues, but is too bull-headed to admit there's a problem and pro-actively do something about it until the moment that the overharvest actually occurs. "Nah, there's no problem.... yet"

Then when it does, they finally admit. "Okay.... NOW we have a problem."

FNP

Remember the Aberdeen meeting when the subject of this tribal netting came up and Phil Anderson said it they (WDFW) saw things going awry they would step in and do something about it...? Then I challenged his ability to do anything about it and a commercial guy really stuck it to him until Phil finally admitted they (WDFW) were, in fact, powerless to make the tribes do anything. They can only talk. Then when things go awry they can only spin and minimize the problem.

It appears that WDFW only does the bidding of the tribes and really can't do anything but restrict everyone else when the tribes overharvst.

Time for the feds to step in.

I like the checking account analogy FNP......


Quinaults exceed steelhead catch 2 months early
02/25/05

With two months left in the winter steelhead run, members of the Quinault Tribe have already caught more steelhead than preseason forecasts estimated prompting fears from local anglers that the fishing season on the Chehalis River would close early.

According to local angler Francis Estalilla, the chatter on Internet bulletin boards frequented by sport fishermen says the catch so far is a couple thousand fish more than predicted.

But state Department of Fish & Wildlife officials say, while it is true the tribe has caught more fish than expected in the Chehalis River Basin, there is no truth to the rumor the fishing season will be closed.

"Right now we have no plans to close the sport fishery on the Chehalis, Wynooche or Satsop rivers," said Bob Gibbons, state freshwater fish program manager.

Just how many fish the tribe has taken was not available this morning.

Representatives of the tribe could not be reached for comment

The department's staff has been fielding a deluge of phone calls from very unhappy, nontribal anglers for the past couple of days.

The preseason forecast estimated the Quinaults would harvest 4,000 steelhead from the winter run of 24,000 fish. Tribal members use gill nets to catch fish.

The run starts in November and ends in April.

"I think it is something we are going to work around," said Ron Warren, the department's Region 6 fish program manager. "Everybody involved is paying close attention to the issue."

He added the state and the tribe have been talking on a regular basis about it.

Gibbons said officials plan to hold a meeting next week to examine the impact on the fishery.

Last year, nontribal anglers took about 6,900 steelhead.

The department wants about 8,600 wild fish to spawn naturally on the rivers and another 410 hatchery-raised fish will be recaptured for the departments hatcheries on the Satsop River and at Lake Aberdeen.

For Estalilla, an Aberdeen ophthalmologist, the issue highlights the shortcomings of the state's co-management of its fisheries called for in the Boldt Decision and harkens to the Makah Tribe exceeding the preseason forecast for its catch of Chinook salmon that came to light earlier this month.

"There seems to be no oversight when the tribes are approaching their quotas," he said.

He added information about the tribes exceeding the forecast comes out after the fact, and usually is leaked to the public instead of in an official statement.

Estalilla likens the co-management of the fishery to a bad financial arraignment in a marriage.

"It is like a financially dysfunctional married couple with a joint checking account," he said.

Both are writing checks without telling each other what they spent and end up overdrawn, he said. "That is my frustration and I would say anglers across the harbor share my frustration."

He added that right now "the spin doctors at the Department of Fish & Wildlife are still creating their press releases that make it look all rosy," and still no one knows how many steelhead the Quinaults have taken.

It is a fairness issue between tribal and nontribal anglers and the health of the resource is at stake, he said.
http://www.thedailyworld.com
[http://www.thedailyworld.com/articles/2005/02/24/local_news/02news.txt]

Judge Bolt says the tribe is entitled to half the harvest. The tribe is allowed to take natives. Sounds like a court challenge to me. I'm going to take natives too.


"Without rules, we all might as well be up in a tree flinging our crap at each other".

The sport fishermans "take" of natives is tied up in incedental killing of CnR natives. In the law, and science any dead fish = "take" wheather you physically take the fish home or not.

Since our season appears to be still intact the big question now is:

Are the tribes still netting the Chehalis 5 days a week?

Are they going to a reduced schedule for the rest of the season or are they going to stop altogether, or is the rape and pillage going to continue?