Some of the recent posts regarding columbia springers are making my loins quiver and getting me thinking about gear prep.

I remember lots of discussion last year before springer season about changing out kwikfish trebles with gamakatsu 510 hooks. I couldn't find any locally at the time and never had a chance to try'em out.

What's the verdict out there? Are folks convinced these hooks are better than siwashes? Look forward to hearing your experiences.

I got em at GI Joes. They are definitely easier to release with them over a treble. They seem to work. My friend used them and said he had better results one trip on the Sky for Chum and silvers bending the hook to the side with an offset. Maybe just a coincidence?

Fished 'em a bit last year ... overall, I had better success with a 4/0 siwash with a slight bend of the eye towards the hook point

I haven't fished them, but they do hold some promise. A concern is the shank is pretty short and a siwash will put the point farther back from the lure.

With a siwash, at the same time as you are pinching the barb use your pliers to offset the point about 10 degrees and then bend the point down slightly. I've been doing that on my hootchie set-ups for the past couple of years and feel that it helps with retention as the hook rotates going in and needs to back out the same way.

I fished them this past fall. Waste of $ in my opinion. They lost fish 2 to 1 compared to Kwickies rigged with a siwash.

I think the short shank and extreamly thick diameter both lead to more lost fish.

I have several packs of 4/0 510's I'll sell anyone that wants to try for themselves...

If you want to try another variation on hook set-ups, especially with a spinner - put on a small split ring and then add an appropriate sized Octopus style, up eye. The hook point runs out of line with the shank of the spinner and can give a little better angle for a hook set.

I used the open eye style 510 hung from the screw-eye with a split-ring and a barrel swivel, as shown in the Gami ad. A 4/0 510 rigged this way on a K-16 has about the same hangback as a 5/0 siwash hung from double split rings or a 5/0 siwash hung from a barrel swivel alone (requires prying open the screw-eye to attach the swivel).

My limited experience with 510's vs siwash are a wash... they both lose equal percentages of fish. The 510 will lose more of them on the strike.... siwashes will buy you more hookups. Once hooked, I lost ZERO fish on the 510's. We still manage to lose a few siwash hookups during the fight. Overall percentage of strikes that make it to the boat is the same for both hook styles in my experience.

Yukon had excellent luck with the "510's on a rope" that you loop onto the screw-eye.

Sounds like he is rigging them up like a saltwater plug with the braided leader. I would think with that short shank a 510 wouldn't do well as it wouldn't be wobbling straight with the short shank. My big ocean plugs have huge open rounded hooks. They are 8/0 and 9/0. Wonder if these are too heavy for a Kwikfish? I would think offsetting a hook wouldn't work with a plug as when the fish bite down it, it teeter totters over the bottom of the plug. If the offset was facing the wrong way the point might be up the side of the plug? Some guides swear by the 510s. I put them on my Kwikfish but have not tried them yet. Hope this wasn't a mistake. A couple of years ago I bought some Tomic TNTs. I tried one for the first time at the Roche Harbor Derby. They reacted like a Kwikfsh. I have them in Mother of Pearl, Army Truck and other colors. They have multiple holes in the front to thread the leader through to change the action. Has anyone ever tried these before? They are dish shaped from side to side (shoe horned shaped with out the return lip).

I really liked hanging one from the back of the plug on the red rope and doubled around the split ring to shorten up the rope. I think they let the plug work better and my hook ups were solid with a high percentage taken down and landed, I did not miss many.

One thing i notice with siwash is that the very point of the hook is weak and most of mine were broken off after a little use. Go through all your siwash and check them. over 50% of mine were broken right at the tip.

I ran my own experiment last salmon season. I rigged up several sets of identical plugs, K14s and K15s, with both Gamakatsu siwash hooks and the Gamakatsu 510s. Both setup included a split ring attatched to the screw eye of the plug and a #50 barrel swivel connecting the hook to split ring. Results were that once hooked I landed more fish using the 510s. Several fish lost on the siwash hooks were due to hooks breaking at the eye and straighting of the hooks. Lost one fish on the 510 due to the swivel breaking and another due to the split ring opening up. My conclusion is that the 510s are much stronger overall but may not be worth the cost unless you are going for large fish. We landed three over #40 last season.

I was talking with some of the guys from Sportco at the Sportsman show. We were talking about the use of the 510s vs the siwash hooks. Both guys I talked to mentioned people who had purchased the 510s and then came back to put on siwashes instead.

I did not like the looks of the 510s due to the short shank and considerably heavier wire they are made from. Harder to squeeze down and lots more hook to stick up in the fish lips.

I ran and checked my siwashes. My one lucky kwikfish from last year has everything tight and no broken tip. I will keep an eye on the tips though. Dont want to lose a good fish.

Tight lines and may the fish hit the boat before the seals.

Steve

Breaking Siwash hooks? I have used gami siwash for ten years and can only remember a couple times where they were bent...never broken one or seen one broken.

Last year my buddy and I were fishing near the mouth of the Cowlitz. The outgoing tide was weak so the k-fish were barely thumping. Anyway, he must have cleanly missed 3-5 fish over two days with a siwash on the back while I never missed a single fish with the factory trebles. We found that the current was so slow that when we held his plug along the side the boat the siwash hung straight down instead of straight out where you want it. I'm sure the treble hung straight down too but the additional hooks seem to make a difference. In a light current I won't use the siwash on the back...with a good thump will certainly go for it.

RM

I quit buying Gami's after two straighten on big fish except the size Owner's wasn't producing at the time. My kwikies have siwash on the middle eye, bead chain siwash on rear or treble. This increased my hook ups. The Owner's stay sharp, can be re-sharpened by me, and no more tips broken like I use to see. I always had trouble sharpening gami's but that might be 'my impairment'. This year I want to really test both eyes with siwash to the rear trebble set up.

I will look and see if I have any broken siwash and will take a picture, I may have thrown them all away when I whiched to the 510's last year.
It is not a very noticeable break, just the very point. I was told by some people they are like that because they can't harden them like they do the octapus style because then you wouldn't be able to pinch down the eye.

That's really strange, I wonder Yukon if you could have just gotten a bad batch of hooks. I know at times manufacturers will get a poor run of metal that can lead to these kinds of problems. I generally run about a 3/0 gami siwash on the back with my drag set light on the strike and then tighten once he's hooked and have never had a problem with a siwash. The gami siwash are mean hooks but now you have me thinking.

RM

I used to run a 7/0 on the back of my K-16 until I noticed the problem and started looking at all my plugs, I will do my best to find one tonight and post a picture, I just have to remember to look. Again, it was just the point, maybe 1/2 mm of the point if that much but you could see the inner non-shiney metal and the outer finished layer.
Just something to look out for.

Adam

Post a couple of your Kwiks with the "510-on-a-rope" set-ups while you're at it.

Thanks!

Woohoo pictures!!

I've experienced some siwash breakage and was told the tempering process made these hooks somewhat brittle. In particular, the gami rep indicated that bending the hook shank was not a good idea at all and that even bending the bards could weaken the tip. Of course, this was after I had bent a bunch of hooks and rigged them on my kwikfish.

Riverman, I thought you said all those missed strikes were related to late nights and a few cocktails. You didn't mention you were having mechanical failures.

I have now switched all my Kwikies to 510's. At first I was getting a poor hook up rate, about 50%. Since I started to bend the point so it had a slight off set from the shank, it is as good as any other hook I have tried.

The great part about the 510 comes when it is time to release the fish, it is very easy to do and with the least possible impact on the fish.

I seam to be able to land the fish once it is hooked up. I use a barrel swivel between the 510 and the eye of the Kwikfish, to attach the barrel swivel to the eye, take a pair of pliers and bend the eye to allow the swivel to slide on.

By placing a swivel between the hook and the kwikfish also the fish to roll and not twist the hook out or enlarge the hole around the hook. Also when you need to release the fish you can grab the plug without worrying about the fish setting the hook into you.

One last note, these hooks are very STRONG, be very careful when you try to bend them. I suggest using a vice or at least vice grips to hold the hook while bending it..