I'm not going to be satisfied until I see more antlered deer than hunters when I am in the woods. Used to be able to hike for 2 hours or so and not see other hunters- not so anymore. And it doesn't matter where you go... at least for the Mod Opener. So I'm looking at a pack service/drop camp for this year... or maybe try and get my buddies to switch to ML.

What have you done to get away from other hunters and make your experience better? ML? Archery? Late Hunt? Pack-in/remote area? Tried a drop camp? Other state?

I'm not fishing for your 'spot'... just wondering how you've adapted or changed your weapon, season, area, etc.

out of state early archery hunts. Some states start in August for mule deer. We have done a few of these early archery hunts and they are great. can be damn hot though.

fishtuff,

Changing your hunting method can lead to more stuff that you need to purchase, unless you have the equipment already. I have the equipment already and I bounce back and forth between archery, modern firearm, and muzzleloader seasons to keep things mixed up. This will force you in some cases to try different spots, times of the year, and learn new areas. Here are some other suggestions.

Try building up some points for special permits and then put in for units that are permit only. Some years your out with the regular yahoo's building points and some years it seems like the unit is all yours.

Maybe its time to change your perspective on hunting. Dont go to traditional areas where people hunt. Use the people to judge where the animals are (game animals dont like people). Use a map to judge where people will be hunting. Most guys dont travel more than a mile from there rig. Remember one mile parralel to the road is a lot different than one mile perpendicular to the road.

If you can afford the out of state tags, gas to get there, then D3's option is a great idea, but if you dont do your homework on the out of state hunt you can find yourself in the same position of crowded areas.

I've been doing my big game hunting out of state now for 6 years and we don't see people during modern elk/deer (and the seasons overlap!).

We started leasing land in Eastern Wa. We have thousands of acres that we hunt. We are the only party that leases it and the only season that it is hunted is rifle season. Once we got access to this our success rate went way up. We still have to chase people out and deer do get taken by trespassers but it works out pretty good.

THATS GREAT!!!

So what have we suggested to fishtuff.

1. Run away from the problem by going to another state.

2. Buy yourself some privacy in eastern washington, but deal with trespassers because your only there a few weeks out of the year to manage it.

3. Buy new equipment and change stratagies.

These suggestions work but they only solve the problem for one guy. Maybe we should work to solve the overcrowding situation.

Why are some lands so heavily posted? It is because of idiots putting holes in signs, wounding animals, littering, off road travel, and just disregard for the property they hunt. The result of this is, "KEEP THE F@#! OFF MY LAND", attitude from landowners. This forces me, fishtuff, and most of the other licences buyers to hunt public land. When we get there we are supprised and upset that we find overcrowding of hunters and no animals to hunt.

What do we do? Run away from the problem by going to another state. Have enough money to lease some land and say "THIS IS MINE AND I WON'T SHARE". Live with it because it is not my responsability to fix it.

We need to change the image of the hunter to the landowner. We need to get the state more involved in cathcing idiots.
Dont be the idiot.
Let the idiots know they are idiots.
Dont assume everybody is an idiot.
Be active in providing suggestions to the WDFW (even if you dont think they listen).

If we change the image of the hutner to the landowner maybe they will let people hunt their land again. This will spread people around a bit.

Wow, where did that come from. We didn't just go over and lease land. We hunted Eastern Wa. for 10 years, knocked on doors, gave away smoked salmon, crab and oysters, drove hundreds and maybe thousands of miles looking for what we want. It's not about idiots. It's about to many people, period.What we have probably won't last. Then we won't sit around and whine, we'll go back and find something new. Alot of those farmers and ranchers struggle making ends meet and several thousand dollars (split up amongst our party) goes a long way.
Fishtuff asked what we have done to get away from other hunters and I was just letting him know how our group adapted.

Congratulations on the hard work, I didnt mean to sound like I was attacking you lazydrifter. I said we can solve fishtuff's problem by any of our suggested ways. My point was that our suggestions to fishtuff dont help the big problem.

You do help me prove my point. You said "We hunted Eastern Wa. for 10 years, knocked on doors, gave away smoked salmon, crab and oysters, drove hundreds and maybe thousands of miles looking for what we want." This says that you are willing to go the extra step to get what you want in a hunting experience.

The thing is, we all want that experience but we all wont make the sacrfice to get it. We expect it to just be there when we get there. I would guess that every person who purchases a license would like to get that first elk or that life time trophy they have been waiting for. We can all check the harvest reports on the web and see that these type of dreams did not come true for many. This is a direct result of to many people, not enough animals, and not enough public land to support it. You and your party have put a lot of time and money to get what we all expect from our state.

It is about Idiots. Can you tell me, that the story behind every door you knocked on had a pleasant experience with trespassing hunters or letting someone on their land (before the offer of smoked salmon)? Can you tell me that you have never seen a sign that read "Respect this Property"? I was fishing last weekend and farmer from the area was their talking to people at the launch. He told me that many of the landowners in that area dont want hunters on their land or they lease it and make a buck (eastern WA).

Not all farmers are poor. I have worked for enough of them to let you know that they are only poor on paper and to the goverment.

What we have, we can make last longer.

j7 - I agree that trespassers and unruly hunters are part of the problem, particularly in your neck of the woods where there are a ton of deer but very limited public land. I've hunted over there several seasons, but ultimately got tired of seeing bucks on the wrong side of the fence. But my take is that a bigger "problem" over there is simply that the landowners either lease out their land, or save it for their buddies to hunt, as was the case in the farm I hunted over there.

But for a lot of the state, the big problem is not the inability to access private land, but simply too many hunters in our national forests, BLM land and other public areas. Essentially a byproduct of our over-the-counter system.

So to get back to the original question, I had all the same frustrations as fishtuff. Instead of whining about over-the-counter tags, road access, etc., I'm now doing a bunch of those things suggested by others. I've gone to bowhunting. I apply in other states. I spend time in the offseason finding 'honey holes'. I trade info with others with local knowledge through this site, MonsterMuleys, bowsite, etc. In just a couple years of branching out, this last year I had a number of excellent hunts. Obviously the general modern season is difficult, but even with a rifle, I think there are ways to get around the crowds if you're willing to spend the time to find new areas. There are a lot of guys out there who have great hunts every year in the over-the-counter seasons. The key is that they either live in the area or spend a lot of time there to learn it well. Hard work obviously won't cut it on private land, but there's a ton of public land out there...some of which doesn't get hunted too hard.

Personally, I think moving from rifle to archery made the biggest impact. Sure, it's more difficult, and if you're simply looking to fill the freezer that might not be the best approach. But if you're looking for a good wilderness experience where you see a lot of critters but not a lot of orange, that's one good way to go. Personally, I love the added challenge of needing to get within bow range. In the last year since I started bowhunting, I think my hunting skills have increased dramatically. I didn't fill the freezer this year, but I had more close encounters with great animals than I've ever had.

Buy a mountain bike. I hunt public land on the coast in an area with a whole network of logging roads, but no motorized vehicles are allowed. There are lots of areas like this, and personally, I think there should be a lot more. Right off the bat, this seems to eliminate 95% of hunters and instantly makes for a much higher quality hunt. Get beyond a mile and there's even fewer as this eliminates the walk-ins. Even on the modern opener, I won't see more than a half dozen people throughout the course of the day. Thank god for lazy people!

After I get my deer, I just put the body cavity on the bike seat, rest the head on the handle bars, tie the legs to the spokes, hop on and I'm out of there. Kind of a strange site riding a deer out like that, but my buddy and I have each got our deer the last five years in a row hunting this way and have complete confidence that we will continue to do so.

I also feel like I'm really hunting the entire time versus just driving around in the truck all day hoping a deer runs across the road and complaining about everybody else doing the same. I've done plenty of that in the past with terrible results, but never again. I'll see and hear things that I never would have had there been the constant rumble of cars and four wheelers around. Not to mention, it's great exercise.

sounds like Fun .../.

well said salty.

I have seen people hunt elk the same way you deer hunt fish monger. But they dont ride the elk out, they put half of it on at a time and push it to the rig.

a lot of hunting for me is the country that i am hunting. each offers its own unique challenges and rewards. The country we hunt in NV is awesome. 10000 feet, sheep, goats, deer and elk... lots of trophy mule deer and its set up great for bow hunting. (If you are in good shape)
i went out of state to get something that i couldnt here in WA. Now for birds, i work harder and try to be smarter than the other guys. I hunt hard and am willing to go the extra mile to get a good spot. almost any idiot can shoot a lot of birds in WA as we have a lot of good land, but to be able to consistantly go get limits on public ground is something else

J7-

You make a great point - often times when I've talked to landowners in E-Wash... many of them I already know or my freinds know, it's 'guilt by association'. They've had bad experiences with other hunters and just don't want to deal with it at all-- even with people they know and trust.

Case in point- I read that over 1/2 of the farmers with CRP feel-free land have opted out of the program for 2007. Just too much hassle and problems dealing with the 'idiots' you speak of. (I like to call them goat-ropers...:)

My buddy and I have been working hard for 8-9 years, and have literally been all over the state trying to find something that's worth going back too. We've tried a new places every year- tried to develop relationships with famers, and hike our a$$e$ off to get away in public areas, but there are always crowds, nice 4pts on the other side of the fence, or the deer are just getting chased around. We've also tried AHE, but that is a big joke, unless.... guess what- you've got private land locked in. Even AHE doesn't mean anything with the landowners- many have had bad experiences w/AHE.

Sure, we've taken deer... maybe average 50% or better success rate, but it's always a little bitter sweet. That's why I'm trying to find something a little more pure... we've spent our twenties searching for that place to go back to every year- it's just not happening.

Again, you are right about the idiots-and It frustrates me to all ends... I'm just starting to think our collective 'bad rap' is beyond repair.

All- Thanks for the input... some good stuff.

I signed up for a drop camp this year with an outfitter (unguided). A lot less than out-of state- and still a 'do-it-yourself' hunt.

... will post pics and let all know how it went. Thanks again for the help- this is a great board!

Hey tuff guy...I thought that might be you, but couldn't quite tell from the avatar. I heard from Marco that you guys signed up for the drop camp. That's awesome...stoked that someone I know is finally going to hunt the high buck hunt. Can't wait to hear how it goes.

salty

a/k/a Brent

Hah ha! Nice call. I was waiting to see how long it took you I was a member of this board way back when and started visiting again last year when I ran into your elk stories and put 2 and 2 together.

I'm excited about the drop camp. Another freind and his bro-in-law are joining Marco and I to make four- they are serious hunters too.

This freind has been going to Idaho and MT and cleaning up with OTC tags. Hoping for an invite one day- Ill send you some pics of his deer- they are dandies. I still need to stay local this year and next- the wife and 2 young kids (1 and 3) wanted me close to home.

In two years I am planning to go with JJ Slim to Oregon on the branched bull elk hunt - guaranteed tags for non-res. through the outfitter. It's a drop camp too... prob do that every other year, and the high buck drop in Wa the other year.

Being originally from Pennsylvania, I must admit I struggled mightily trying to find worthwhile public hunting land and deer in eastern WA. If we had a deer here for every "POSTED" or "NO HUNTING" sign we'd have a 80% success rate! Anyways, I learned some valuable lessons over a course of 5 years while hunting public land, some of which are incredibly obvious. If possible, SCOUT, SCOUT, SCOUT during the off-season. The most important thing is to get as far off the beaten path as possible. Avoid dirt roads and old logging trails like the plague (especially if there's a lot of vehicle traffic or foot traffic) and get into the thickets and and heavy cover between these roads/trails. Let other hunters move the deer to you and don't freak if you have a hunter move through. I've killed 2 bucks within 15 minutes after a hunter moved through (one of which came from the direction the hunter headed). Head uphill and onto the "flats" and locate the bedding areas, usually in the thickest, hardest to reach areas, then locate their feeding areas and position yourself accordingly. Avoid hunting the same area day after day, you could very well contaminate the area despite your best efforts. Don't expect too much during the warm early season (I use it primarily for scouting), but hunt hard during the late season when the rut is on and it's colder. This one is a bit tougher but, if possible, avoid weekend hunts and hunt during the week.

You didn't say if you are a muley, whitetail, or blacktail hunter.
There are good places without roads or trails. It just takes time to find them. Find a bowl or flat area where deer from the high country will congregate.
Sounds like you're willing to put in the work, have you tried the high buck hunt?
Locked gates are a blessing for guys willing to walk or ride a bike.

To cupo, my apologies....whitetail deer in NE Washington. As crazy as it sounds, I've noticed that most hunters in this state aren't willing to "break brush" and opt instead to stick to established roads and trails. I've located several areas where a relatively simple 300-500 hike off an old logging trail will put you in prime whitetail habitat. From these locations I'm able to observe folks bumbling up and down these roads/trails, talking and smoking, weapons slung over their shoulders. It's hilarious!

If you guys think it's bad here, If I recall correctly last years' Deer Season in Pennsylvannia the hunters out numbered the Whitetail deer 5 to 1.

1. AHE - Gets you access to hunts not everybody can put in for, lessening the pool and increasing your odds.

2. Changed to ML - Early and late seasons equal about a month of hunting time. Much lower participation rate, I think about 5-10% of hunters go ML, depending on state. Lots of "any deer" hunts.

3. Ride a bike - Locked gates are my friend. I'll get back 3-4 miles in minutes, start hunting, and a while later maybe see the walk-in guys as I'm riding my bike/deer out of the woods.

4. Put in for specific hunts - I only put in for certain ML hunts for trophy tags. I don't need a trophy every year, as a doe eats just as good, or better. Right now there are only two hunts that I apply for deer, and two for elk. If I get drawn, great! If not, I just hunt locally.

5. Get off of the freakin' road - I can't tell you how many times I've bumped deer within 50 feet of the road, but they would have just sat there if I walked/drove by. Get out and get wet & dirty.

6. Barter - I have had more private land opened up to me with the use of a 5 pound pink gate key than any words I've ever spoken. This year I dropped off some salmon, smoked and frozen filets, to a guy who knows everybody in Ellensburg and I didn't hunt the land he has access to. I did it to keep the relationship alive. Even if they don't say yes, leave some fish, try again next year, leave some fish again, and they may change their minds.

15 deer in 15 years. 7 elk in 10 years. Hunt smarter, not necessarily harder. Horns are nice, but I'm out for meat.

One thing I failed to mention (not a "what did I do thing") is that Washington has less whitetail habitat than most states. Yes, the cover is there but the food isn't, especially on public/state land. Browse is in abundance is some areas, especially where logging once took place, but it's lacking in others. There are no mast crops like acorns and other nuts from trees that occur in high volume in northeastern states. Midwestern states have huge deer populations due to EXTENSIVE farmland. Rocky Mountain states are packed full of muleys because sage is everywhere. The lack of deer in eastern Washington is simply due to the lack of food necessary to support a large herd, hence the overall small numbers of antlered and antlerless deer. Combined with limited available land and it's a problem. That's my opinion after having hunted several states. Field and Stream or Outdoor Life had a deer density article a few years back, complete with a U.S. foldout map, which showed, if I remember correctly, whitetails at less than 10 per square mile in E.Washington. I can't recall the mule deer status. Pa's northern counties showed 30 and 40 per square mile. And having hunted both now, I submit that article had some truth to it! Anyways....good luck to all this coming season!

I Second the Mountain Bike, but also stay in shape, learn to read maps, and start reading books about game you hunt. I used to have drop camps in the past but that limited me to one area. Which a lot of the time is not bad but you never know whos been scounting that land previously and may find your self hunting an area with more hunters than you think. This happened to me a couple years ago and I still get mad at my self for this. (I should of known better). One bad hunter can send a heard of Elk a couple crow miles away in a morning. Then what are you going to do? I've noticed on this board there is alot of bashing the 95% catagory of hunters calling them dumb and lazy. Lazy I'll give you but dumb NO! Good hunting grounds are hardly a secret anymore, alot of it comes down to how bad do you want to reach them. A percentage of bad hunters will reach these spots and contaminate the ground for weeks to come,%$^#ing up your hunt for the season. With all this said buy a Mountain Bike do your research, Bike at least 4 miles back, then hike get to know the area (LONG BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS) Once youve figured that out find your BULLS in 3 different areas and treat them as if there your new best friends all summer long. You'll then know if anyone is eyeballing your area. Try hunting locally also, no body knows your back yard better than you.

drop camp -- horseback about 5 miles into a no vehicle area.

My grandpa has hunted in PA all his life, and I made the time to go with him this last year on opening day. You could see the orange of hunters everywhere, and shots were ringing out constantly for hours. It was nuts.

Same way in Michigan when I was growing up. Washington isnt so bad when you compare it to back east hunter numbers but there are more deer back east. In Mich. you could get 4 deer a year if did things right.

I was in the same boat until I figured out that if your willing to hike or bike your success rate increases but more importantly the quality of the experience is much better also.Don't sell AHE short, Ive been in since the beginning and they expanded the area I hunt last year into some great country. You just need to do your homework.

the past few years i have been hunting a small public patch of land surrounded by private property. there is one road in and its a good 2 miles of drving through some bad road. its very nice, right on top of a hill/mountain. and you can see everything

I started hunting walkin only areas that are within timber co. lands. During Elk season we camp at a gate and ride our horses into the walk-in area every day. My party of 3 has shot at least 1 bull every year for the last 5 years. We went 3 for 3, 3 years ago and see multiple Elk every day. Usualy the start of season sees several hunters ( 8 people last year ) by the end of season everyone disapears( 0 the rest of season last year). Ironicaly every bull we have shot in our area has been on the last 2 days of the season. We usualy hunt deer in the same area and I can't remember any of us not filling our tag with a self imposed 2point minimum. I would attribute our success to low pressure, hunting the same area and beating the woods every day the season is open. We also spend alot of time in our area during the off season. We can usually tell how many legal bulls are around by the time season starts. Works for us and we hunt modern firearm Western WA and see no reason to leave.