Sorry, I was not clear enough, what I was trying to say was that if the tribe wants to punish the rogue members, and they probably should, then thats their choice not ours. I am slightly torn between accepting the tribal members who did this as the jerks they seem to be and the fact that what they are doing is a form of civil disobediance against an unjust law.

Aunty, there is a huge difference between killing a whale under treaty rights and killing a human. I don't know if you are trying to insinuate that they both are federal offenses or point out that that is what tribes used to do that, and thats what put them on the reservation. In any case, one action you mentioned is specifically allowed while the other is not.

Boy, I am a slow typist.....

What ever they do, DO NOT TRUST THE MAKAh'S to punish there own....I have seen many other violations by the Makah's and other indian tribes with little or no repercusions for violators. Its about time the Fed's get involved, in fact all the indian treaty rights should be abrogated...no more special treatment. Ever since the Bolt dicision fishing has done nothing but go down hill, and when you drive by the Chehalis and other river's with nets all the way across not allowing fish to spawn it's no wonder. The indians have proven to be greedy..with all the natural resources...So I say take away the treaty fishing rights to All the tribes.
hip hip horray it would be about time

See what I mean ,Aunty?

The Makah nation should not be prosecuting these people, It should be the feds , They did not break a minor local law what they did was a federal offense but once again the tribes will get their way . What do you think would happen if I or one of you killed a whale do you think your local sheriff would handle this NO, you would be in federal custody ! The only real good that will come out of this will be public outcry . We all were created equal so we all should be following the same rules

Aunty, talking about your Fanny really makes me uncomfortable due to my anti sexist training. You are a worthy debater and I appreciate your critical thinking skills. We most likely agree on more than we disagree, and where we disagree, we just do

It should not be that way ,that is what frosts my backside

I got a question (and I maybe wrong on the law/ban for whale hunting by all countries).

Isn't there a ban on hunting whales that makes it illegal for any "Country" to hunt whales? So if Norway, or Japan can't hunt whales, and are not they sovereign nations, what would make it legal for the Makah's? If they want to be considered a sovereign nation, should they not follow the same laws, regulations that the rest of the world has agreed to follow.

Among the Indians, being tried by your own people has a much greater impact on them personally than any punishment by non-tribal members. Being shamed by your people is considered a lot more humiliating than doing some time in a federal jail. While it probably won't happen in this case, some tribes have banished members from their home rez. It is something that is not fully appreciated, understood or known by Anglos as their people have not been here very long. When you're banished from the land on which your people have resided for uncounted years, it affects the person in a profound way that can not happen to an Anglo citizen of this country.
A banished or punished Indian can move to another rez but the word of their actions that caused the punishment in their own tribe will eventually be known and they will be shunned in most cases.
Indian Country has it's own rules that most non-Indians aren't aware of. There will be pressure brought to bear by other tribes but it won't be known to most Anglo citizens. One of my cousins called from Montana to talk to me about it even though we're not tribal members here. The powwow telegraph spreads the word through out Indian Country.

So where's the whale now?

I still can't get over that all this occured while these guys we're "practicing" for a possible future hunt. So, let me get the story straight, they're a couple miles off shore with harpoons and rifles and along comes a whale? How was this practice supposed to go down? Were they supposed to just chase the whale and pretend to throw spears at it and shoot it? Like everything with this tribe, I don't believe a single thing they say. I believe there was more too this than some rogue tribal members taking a whale. Something smells like a rotten fish tote!

In Davy Jones' locker.

Fixed it for ya.

The Whale is being consumed by countless critters at the bottom (or somewhere suspended in the water column) in the pacific.

It is not....I repeat not....being consumed by or claimed for the Tribe.

RVW

Big Macs yummmm......whale not so yummm.

RVW

Aunty,
Despite what you may think, whale hunting is specifically allowed by treaty. It has never been determined that the tribes don't have this right in the end I the requirements for permits and such will end up being considered illegal too. In Boldt and subsequent rulings the right to fish in common has expanded to include all fish in the traditional area, modern methods, 50% of all harvestable fish, forcing the state to provide fish and improve habitat, pay for reduced fishing rights and lots more. How can the courts then ignore a statement in a treaty that says
"The right of taking fish and of whaling or sealing at usual and accustomed grounds and stations is further secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the United States, and of erecting temporary houses for the purpose of curing, together with the privilege of hunting and gathering roots and berries on open and unclaimed lands: Provided, however, That they shall not take shell-fish from any beds staked or cultivated by citizens. "
To do so would be to ignore Boldt and make new law, something we may like but will not happen.

The ban on hunting whales you are talking about GVbest is a voluntary treaty among whaling nations. I doubt that the Makahs have signed it, but in any case I am almost positive their hunt was allowed by the group you are talking about. The problem many people have with the Makahs whaling is that Japan and norway will try to use it to expand their hunting of whales. They are already violating the international treaty by doing what they call research fisheries and through other means. They have also threatened to back out of their agreements but have not done so due to international pressure.

didn't finish the thread, info already mentioned

Ok, so whale hunting is in the treaties, and its in there blood because they did it for centuries before they were conquered by the Whiteman. Now we have been compensating the Indians for the mis deeds of our ancestors for over a hundred years.
If you look at the history of James Island, they had to have outlooks on the island to see if the Makah's were coming to steal there women and children to use as slaves for work and sex. Have the Makah's ever compensated the other tribes for there mis deeeds? Or is it only the responsibility of the white man who works and tries to better society to compensate the Makah'. No other indian tribe that I know compensates other tribes for its mis deeds.
It is past time to bring the treaties up to the 21st century...I encourage all to write their representative and Senators about this, I know I will.....

I was dissapointed to not see any coverage of this on the Today show or other national news coverage. Kind of dissapointing. I guess this will just get swept under the carpet like everything else that goes on out there.-T

surprise... surprise... surprise...

The Indians certainly didn't live like super citizens while their treaty rights were being ignored, the agreed to items to be furnished by the Great White Father in the treaties were not provided and all the rest of it. It's only been in the last years that they have finally been able to create some wealth for themselves.
Are you aware that there may be as much as 40 billion, yep- billion, dollars misappropriated from the oil, gas and other leases from the trusts of the BI, Fish-Bite?.
I'm not suggesting that this some how makes it ok for the whale hunt, but if you are going to suggest that Indians have supercitizen status, you should do some research on how things have been until the last few years. It just points out your own personal ignorance.

You know I really dont have a problem with them doing what they have done for many years. The fish, the wildlife, even the whales but if you are going to say you have the right because it was that way before then go ahead and do it like your ancestors did before. Not with jet boats and nets on the fish but with spears and canoes. You know, like your ancestors did. Hunt with old recurve bows not a new 300 win mag when you go after the elk and deer. And as far as the whales go, a 50 cal was probably not in the works hundreds of years ago either. If it is all cultural then do it like your culture did. Then I will have no complaints.