In the ripple effect,
from the gut, written by GL

I am not sure if its ok to quote the piece. So I will just use the numbers given and maybe somone else that has read it will chime in.

It states the Alaska's commerial season landed 212 million fish.
Then goes on to give numbers landed
Coho 2.9 million
Sockeye 47 million
King Salmon 499,000

So I assume that roughly 160 million were Chums, and Pinks.

Then it says "Millions of fish that should be returning to our rivers and streams are being harvested in the ocean. We are allowing Alaskas commercial fleet to harvest the majority of out salmon"


Now with the number of Coho, Kings, and Sockeye, roughly 50.5 million the balance of 160 million fish appear to be Chums or Pinks. Which fish are ours that they have harvested?

The projected return for Bristol Bay was 40 million, they beat the estimates bu 7 million. Those fish were Sockeye, caught in the Bristol Bay. I don't believe that any of us would concider them ours.

Half a million kings, concidering the projection was 789,000 I would say that Alaska's commercial fleet didn't catch any of our fish.

Anyway, I am thinking that its possible that the number 212 million is WRONG. Hopefuly a typo, not something to stir up sportsmen.

I feel that the "Millions of fish that should be returning to our rivers and streams are being harvested in the ocean. We are allowing Alaskas commercial fleet to harvest the majority of out salmon" is totally misleading.

The sockeye aren't ours. Their king return was poor, their coho return was poor, their chum return was poor. Not one of those species met the projections.

Flame away

But aunty

The number don't jive!

The numbers that are used just don't work. Bristol Bay Sockeye are just that.

The AK king returns, were down from projections. So were the Coho numbers.
So if Alaska was expecting 789,000 King Salmon. And they were only able to land 499,000. Are you saying that some of those 499,000 were supposed to go to the Columbia, the Sol Duc, Skok?

Do you believe that Alaska fisheries managers were so inept that not only did they miss the projected return by 289k. But they were counting some Washington fish to meet there projections?

I really don't believe that they are counting on any Washington,Oregon fish to meet their projections.

[quote=AuntyM]

I hate apear totally ignorate. So I have to ask, what Alaska fishery is trageting Salmon in the Ocean?

Which I will immedetily follow with Which BC fishery is targeting salmon in the ocean?

Where they know they are targeting salmon that return to WA,OR

Jason,

There are indeed Columbia River and Puget Sound salmon caught in both B.C. and Alaska...but if you believe that it's causing the lack of recovery in Washington State, then do yourself a favor and take a break from logic and facts...

It's the same type of emotional, not necessarily accurate type of information that Gary uses in his CCA presentations every week...it sounds devestating if you don't bother checking the facts, and it sounds pretty weak if you do...

At the first of the several CCA meetings I went to to hear Gary talk, I challenged him on his imaginary numbers and scenarios, and he had absolutely nothing whatsoever to say about it...but he didn't need to, because the rest of the sportfishermen there got all up in arms for him...

"How can you question what we really want to hear? It's all the nets' fault!"

This is all I'll have to say on this thread, since it's been hashed out before in the other various Rah Rah CCA threads.

Fish on...

Todd

Yup, Marsha is pretty much correct. She knows more than I, and others know more than her, but the basic nuance of the issue is in her statements.

Here's what is going on in SE Alaska. Commercial trollers have a winter troll season in terminal areas that target alaska hatchery King Salmon. This same type of season in terminal areas goes on again in the spring. On July 1st is when they are allowed to fish anywhere they want and harvest treaty fish which are headed to BC and farther south. So to answer your question they do kill some Washington fish but so do the sporties up there. I have harvested Hatchery King Salmon up there that were destined for columbia river hatcheries and other places in washington.

All the data is available on ADFG website if you are willing to look for it.

Aunty,

First of all I believe that "212 million fish were harvested" is a typo should have read 212 million pounds were harvested

There is no way that 160 million pinks were harvested. Fuel prices are through the roof. Pinks are historically worth pennies.

That being said, the bycatch number in the pollock fishey have shot through the roof. I think it was like 150,000 king salmon. But then Alaska itself was missing 289,000 kings. So I am not sure they were ours.


I think we all, And I mean anyone that cares about Salmon or Steelhead needs to be careful about blaming one user group or another.

There are so many problems with fisheries that picking a starting point is hard.

Myself I believe that if there is no HABITAT there will be no SALMON

I believe that Habitat = SALMON

Anyway yes I am a member. I have fished for a living for 15 years of my adult life. I have seen first had the devistation that the High Seas Drift Gillnets caused in the Albacore fishery.

We in the albacore fishery had get this 100% hard to imagine but yes 100% net maked ablacore.

Thank God, that in the early 90 the fishery was eliminated.

Around the same time I am sure many will recall they "High Seas Gillnetter" were netting WA's Salmon, in there so called squid fishery.

...and Todd chimes in with more info. (He knows way more than I on this) It isn't just one specific issue, but we gotta start somewhere.

Jason, have you ever been to AK and seen the fishery for pinks?


Hundreds of boats doing this all day long for weeks on end.

My camera took this photo.

That's what has kept me from joining, the man that seems to be leading this is spewing alot of propaganda, unfortunately, alot of people seem to think since its G. Loomis, he must know what he's talking about.

Well back to the 212 million fish that has to be WRONG.


Andy- Yes I have seen it, I have seen first hand most fisheries. But even if you caught 160,000,000 pinks that weighted 5 pounds each.

You would have to find a buyer for said fish.

Thats 800,000,000 pounds of fish who would buy them


Thats EIGHT HUNDRED MILLION pounds

I am sure that with a little searching we could figure out that the 212 is a typo.

some might be interested in reading this:


http://www.cf.adfg.state.ak.us/region1/pdfs/salmon/rir_1j07-11.pdf

Alaska report

From the horses mouth

The numbers are correct.

Crickets.......

Over the din of that crickets, that was 143,000,000 pinks and 17,300,000 chum.

ALASKA TOTALS
avg wt / $/lb / #fishx1,000 / # lbs / $ x 1,000
CHINOOK 15.43 / $2.68 / 562 / 8,674 / $23,265
SOCKEYE 5.88 / $0.75 / 47,072 / 276,954 / $206,461
COHO 6.71 / $0.83 / 3,670 / 24,628 / $20,354
PINK 3.51 / $0.17 / 143,949 / 504,906 / $84,771
CHUM 7.59 / $0.30 / 17,337 / 131,512 / $39,520
totals / 212,589 / 946,675 / $374,372


Numbers aren't my game, but they look good. Click below for source.

Source.

Jason,

As Dogfish pointed out, the numbers are correct. AK harvests pinks, chums, and sockeye by the millions. The AK fisheries is SE AK harvest some WA coho and a lot of WA chinook. Most of them are taken in the troll fishery. BC takes another 65% of WA chinook and coho. WA catches the smallest % of the chinook and coho it produces.

Even if WA had pristine habitat, AK and BC would accrue more benefit from it than WA. Harvest and habitat degradation are the double edged sword limiting the number of salmon available for harvest in WA. OK, make it the 4 Hs, but I couldn't conjure up a 4 edged sword.

Sg

Gotcha covered on the 4 edged knife.

4 bladed knife

OK funny guy. That looks like a carbide tipped shaper blade. Anyway - covered.

Sorry about that, had to take my daughter to School.

First I should thank you for the link, to the numbers. I really didn't believe it.
But now you have proven that the numbers do indeed jive.



So Lets go back to, Chinook Projected 789,000 fish actual 499,000. If you add in the 120,000 bycatch king salmon the Pollock fleet caught they still didn't meet their projected returns.

Then the Coho numbers for AK the projected return was 4,700,000 actual catch was 2,900,000. So Alaska is missing 1,800,000 Coho and 150,000 King Salmon.

The title of the Article is "Where Did All the Salmon Go" then it proceeds to pretty squarly place a bullseye on the 212,000,000 fish that the Alaska commercial fleet landed.

But when you look at the break down by species and Alaska's projected returns. Maybe Alaska should be asking the same thing, Who Caught all of our salmon!

Once again, I think that placing the blame for 2007 poor returns in WA, and OR. Squarly on the shoulders of the Alaska Commercial fishing fleet, Is a mistake.

Salmo G,

That 4 bladed thingamajig was from a MEAT GRINDER. I thought it was appropriate.