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#433954 - 05/11/08 04:39 PM Umpqua wild steelhead need help
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
Umpqua Wild Steelhead Need Your Help!

On Monday May 5th 2008 Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife (ODFW) announced their proposed changes to the 2009-2012 Oregon Sport Fishing Regulations. Please visit the ODFW website and download a copy of the “2009 Oregon Sport Fishing Regulation Development: A Public Process May Meeting Packet”: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/2008/may/050508.asp or contact Rhine Messmer of ODFW for a copy (phone: (503) 947-6214 email: rhine.t.messmer@state.or.us). There are eight different proposed regulations that would allow for the harvest of wild winter steelhead on the Umpqua system. A very vocal, organized group is doing their best to get the 1 wild steelhead/day, 5 wild steelhead/year kill regulation re-instated. We need all advocates of wild steelhead from far and wide to speak out strongly and in large numbers against the proposed kill regulations if we are to see the current wild steelhead release regulation stay in place on the Umpqua. ODFW adopts the sport fishing regulations through a “public process”—it is up to the public to let ODFW know which regulations they support or oppose. This is your opportunity to speak loud and clear to ODFW regarding your stand on killing Umpqua wild steelhead. Here is how to get your voice heard:

1. Write a letter: Share your thoughts with ODFW on the proposed regulations. Address letters to: ODFW, Angling Regulations, 3406 Cherry Avenue NE, Salem OR 97303 or you can email your letter to Rhine Messmer (Angling Regulations Coordinator) at the email address listed above. All letters and emails will be forwarded to the Fish and Wildlife Commission as part of the public record. Anyone who is affected by the proposed regulations is encouraged to write, one does not have to reside in Oregon to participate.
2. Attend a Public Meeting: Throughout the month of May are ten public meetings where ODFW staff presents an overview of the Public Process and proposals for statewide regulations. Then district staff will present the proposals for a given Angling Zone—there should be several Zones represented at most meetings. There should also be time for questions and comments from the public. Meeting details are listed below:

May 13 Blue Mt. Conference Center 404 12th Street LaGrande OR, 97805
May 14 Central Oregon Community College, Hitchcock Auditorium 2600 NW ollege Way Bend, OR 97701
May 15 OSU Extension Service 3328 Vandenberg Road Klamath Falls, OR 97603
May 16 Jackson County Auditorium 400 Antelope Road White City, OR 97503
May 19 North Bend Library 1800 Sherman Avenue, North Bend, OR 97459
May 20 Douglas County Library 1409 NE Diamond Lake Blvd, Roseburg, 440-4311
May 21 Lane Community College Forum Building (#17), Room 308 4000 East 30th Avenue Eugene, OR 97405
May 22 Hatfield Marine Science Center 2030 SE Marine Science Dr. Newport, OR 97141
May 23 Oregon Dept. of Forestry 5005 Third Street Tillamook, OR 97141
May 27 Oregon Dept. of Fish & Wildlife Headquarters 3406 Cherry Avenue NE Salem, OR 97303
May 28 Sunnybrook Service Center (Clackamas County Building) 9101 SE Sunnybrook Center Clackamas, OR 97015
3. Testify at a Commission Meeting: There are two Commission meetings where the public has the opportunity to comment: August 8th at ODFW Headquarters in Salem and September 12th at Oregon Hatchery Research Center near Alsea. You can find details on presenting testimony to the Commission at the ODFW website: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/co...procedures.asp

The Steamboaters will issue a position paper on the proposed Umpqua regulations, highlighting problems we see with re-instating the kill fishery—we will distribute this paper in the coming weeks. The position paper will have plenty of points one can use in their letter writing efforts and talking points for the public meetings. The intent of this notice is to let you know what is happening and ask you to get involved in the public process. It cannot be stressed enough how important it is to have a large show of opposition to all variants of the kill regulation. One version of the 1/5 regulation proposal was submitted 175 times. Not only is there a large contingent of sport fishers that support killing wild winter steelhead on the Umpqua, ODFW Staff is in favor of re-opening the river to wild steelhead harvest. Steamboaters are in the process of crafting a detailed, in-depth formal argument against the kill regulation that we will distribute to the Commission in late June. We will make this set of documents available to any interested party at that time. Until then, please get involved--start writing letters and plan on attending a public meeting this month. Get the word out to as many people as possible—that magnificent race of wild winter steelhead that call the Umpqua home are depending on us.

One of the major issues is the fact that they haven't set any real escapment for the basin. They are saying that 25% of the 30 year average is a healthy run and that it has to meet that number 3 our of 5 years. No one thinks that would be the case but yet that is the number is being used. They can't use science as they don't have any science to back up what they "think".

Please write the Commission as mentionted above and let them know that there are sportsman that support keeping ban on killing wild winter steelhead. If you have any questions regarding the Public Process, please contact the Steamboaters at steamboaters@hotmail.com.

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#434175 - 05/13/08 10:57 AM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
Going to bump one time hope people take this seriously.

JJ

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#434334 - 05/14/08 10:23 AM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 774
Loc: Everett, WA USA
WSC members should be all over this one. Time to open a chapter in Oregon.
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

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#434354 - 05/14/08 12:57 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: stever in everett]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: stever in everett
WSC members should be all over this one. Time to open a chapter in Oregon.


The WSC has been working with the Steamboaters on protecting the Umpqua and its fish for the past several years...they've been good partners to us down there in Oregon. I think that there will be a presentation from one of the Steamboaters at the upcoming Steelhead Summit Alliance, hosted by the Wild Steelhead Coalition.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#434880 - 05/17/08 05:08 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Todd]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
I'm looking for any data that would show that a limited kill fishery on the Umpqua is not justifiable. Like stock population trends declining etc.
I can't seem to be able to find anything.

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#435003 - 05/18/08 07:28 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Illahee]
NWaddict Offline
Smolt

Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 79
Loc: Oregon
With the stable run levels the umpqua supports, I definately support allowing harvest in the mainstem. I could see putting the deadline at winchester to protect the north umpqua fish (even though they are very, very healthy as well), but keeping the whole mainstem closed doesn't make any sense. Few, if any, of the lower river tribs are open to fishing at all and the main is usually only fishable during a few weeks of the year.

Mainstem harvest should be reinstated. I dont think it is possible for a limited kill fishery to harm that system's run.

Dom

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#435037 - 05/18/08 11:57 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Double Haul Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1440
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
August 1, 2007

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
3406 Cherry Avenue NE
Salem, OR 97303
RE: Angling Rules Proposals

Dear ODFW,
The Wild Steelhead Coalition would like to submit comments on the proposed rule changes to
steelhead harvest policy in the Umpqua River. We support a ban on the wild steelhead kill fishery
on the Main stem and North Umpqua.

We strongly oppose the proposal to increase the allowable harvest on wild steelhead. Our
concerns are based on our review of your research report entitled Biological Assessment of the
Impacts to Wild Winter Steelhead on the Umpqua River from the Recreational Fishery. First, we
must applaud ODFW’s considerable efforts to develop rigorous estimates of steelhead population
abundance and productivity in the Umpqua River system. We understand the data and modeling
described in this document to be the basis for your proposal to maintain a wild kill fishery. We
accept that the information provided is based on sound research methods and science, but we
have some lingering questions about how it was interpreted to support your management proposal
because the presentation was quite confusing.

We feel that ODFW has not adequately considered the potential effects of wild kill at harvest
rates approaching 30% on the long-term viability of this critical population. Our concerns are
twofold. First, we are not convinced that the factor of safety you have defined on the basis of
intrinsic productivity is sufficiently robust in the face of a changing natural environment in the
Pacific Northwest. Second, we do not feel that your have considered adequately the potential
effects of such a high harvest rate on wild fish diversity, a critical component of population
health.

With regard to our first point of contention, modeling of population productivity based on habitat
capacity is inherently a backwards looking exercise. It relies on existing and in many cases older
data on habitat capacity and smolt production rates to forecast the future. We submit that this
implicit presumption is no longer viable in the face of what is likely to be increasingly rapid
environmental change in the Pacific Northwest. We may not be able to count on a high level of
intrinsic productivity in the future as a changing climate exerts its influence on the hydrologic
regime and stream temperatures of our rivers. A 30% harvest rate is perilously close to the factor
of safety bounds that you have defined around this population without taking future uncertainty
into effect.

With regard to our second point, we again agree that ODFW has developed an excellent base of
information for estimating the abundance and productivity of Umpqua winter steelhead.
However, we must point out that these are only two of the four elements that constitute a robust
population. The spatial structure and, perhaps most importantly, the diversity of the population
must be considered as well. These four elements are key criteria in recovery planning under the
Endangered Species Act, and they will ultimately define performance goals that your agency will
be required to pursue.

Your own fisheries scientists have acknowledged the importance of diversity to population
health. On page 6 of the document cited above the authors state:

“(Genetic diversity is partitioned within and between stocks and populations. It provides the
essential resource upon which natural selection acts in the face of changing environmental
conditions, thereby allowing future adaptation to each stock’s local environment.”

ODFW has provided no information regarding how a 20% to 30% harvest rate on Umpqua River
wild steelhead would affect the diversity of this stock. The biological assessment suggests that
harvest pressure may be distorting population diversity. Your fisheries scientists have
acknowledged that harvest practices affecting a particular segment of a stock in time or space
may lead to genetic changes (pg. 7), and note that the high percentage of repeat spawners in the
Smith River stock relative to the other stocks in the basin may be attributable to the reduced
angling pressure that this stock receives (pg. 15). This is intuitively logical. Repeat spawners are
typically the larger trophy fish that anglers find desirable. It is no leap to state that these trophy
fish are disproportionately impacted by wild kill fisheries, and that this effect would be extended
to other components of the population.

Repeat spawning is not the only aspect of population diversity that needs consideration. Your
productivity focused modeling approach does not appear to provide any accommodation for
disproportionate effects on stock components with early and late run timing. It is well known that
high harvest rates on early run wild fish mixed with hatchery returns have effectively eliminated
this component of population diversity from many wild steelhead populations in Washington
State.

We also note that wild South Fork Umpqua fish will be taken in the main stem at a rate that can’t
be defined based on current information. This run has been declining, and since they receive no
protection from harvest until they reach the South Fork we will not know the incidental impact of
main stem harvest fisheries. This presents the potential for disproportionate impacts on a segment
of the run representing unique spatial structure, and perhaps adaptation to specialized
environmental conditions. Again, we must argue that as we look forward to a changing
environment, every effort must be made to ensure that these critical components of population
diversity are fully and adequately considered in our management decisions.

In summary, we feel that ODFW has not adequately considered the effects of a wild kill fishery
on the population diversity of wild Umpqua steelhead. Your data and modeling have been
organized and presented to support a maximum sustained yield approach to managing this
population. Experience throughout the range of west coast wild steelhead shows that managing
for MSY escapement goals has proven to be unsustainable for far too many wild steelhead stocks,
and instead we support more conservative harvest management schemes that err on the side of
spawning escapements that far exceed MSY escapement goals. In implementing this
precautionary approach, we must also argue for the protection of key elements of population
diversity that will allow our steelhead to adapt to environmental change. ODFW needs to
consider this argument not only from the standpoint of responsible management, but also in
recognition of requirements imposed by the Endangered Species Act.

The harvest rule for the main stem and North Fork Umpqua was passed in a time of very good
runs, yet now the runs have dropped and the impact of harvest fisheries will likely pose greater
risks to the affected populations. We find this to pose unacceptable and unnecessary risks to one
of the last completely wild runs of steelhead left in the Northwest. We recommend the complete
ban on any wild steelhead kill fishery on the Umpqua system.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Wild Steelhead Coalition

Rich Simms
President
www.wildsteelheadcoalition.com
_________________________
Decisions and changes seldom occur by posting on Internet bulletin boards.

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#435055 - 05/19/08 11:27 AM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Double Haul]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
If the runs are such bad shape, why not curtail all fishing? C&R has a mortality, if the runs are so bad then no fishing should be allowed.
If the runs are so far down why are they not designated as threatened?

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#435064 - 05/19/08 11:42 AM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Double Haul]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
The ODFW hasn't set a scientifically base escapement. They say 25% of the 30 year average is a healthy run. Even their biologist says that 25 % of the 30 year average is a junk number and if they were harvested down to that level the river wouldn't be healthy. They haven't made the case that the run is in good enough shape scientifically.

I think that the letter Rich posted above hits it on the head with respect to more of the junk data and being ignored.

Having Bad data isn't a reason to open up a kill fishery. Isn't it time to try something different? As a whole is the current management working? If you say yes you aren't paying attention. Maybe give maximum recreation a chance not maximum harvest.

JJ

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#435075 - 05/19/08 12:38 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
In what way is is it bad data? Your basing your opinion on a conversation with a bio?
If the data is faulty then let's see where it's gone wrong.
Saying it's bad and proving it are two distinctly different things.

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#435078 - 05/19/08 02:00 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Illahee]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
Laura Jackson the biologist for the region said the numbers are Junk. Does that meet your standards. She said that the river can't handle the harvest rates that would still allow the river to be deamed healthy. Is that good enough for you? They have a nonscientific defintition of healthy which is why they biologist say it is Junk.

JJ

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#435084 - 05/19/08 02:32 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
OK, let's presume that this particular bio is correct, and she has got it correct.
My question is just why is she correct? Any data that would back up her allegations? Or are we to believe that just because she says it's true, then it must be true.
I'm going to need a little more information please, biological hear say just isn't enough.
Your accusation is the deciding data on the health of these stocks is flawed, I'm saying show me where they are wrong.
If your going to attack the accepted science, you need to be able to prove where it's wrong, otherwise it's called a rumor.

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#435093 - 05/19/08 03:50 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Illahee]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
What accepted science are you talking about? There 25% of the 30 years average isn't accepted science. I am not anti-harvest of hand but when I don't see any scientific data (so I don't have any to give you) I can't support it. I figure it is safer to error on the side fo the fish rather then harvest.

I will ask you what science do you have that supports harvest?

JJ

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#435095 - 05/19/08 03:55 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Assuming that there is a question about the health of the stock, or what level of harvest it can, or cannot handle...and I think that's assuming a lot...what would make more sense?

1. Harvest and hope you're right, and if you're wrong, yer fukked.

2. Don't harvest and hope you're right, and if you're wrong, the only thing that didn't happen is a bunch of wild fish didn't get eaten.

"Harvest first, then health of the run" is what got us into trouble on lots of other stocks...erring on the side of letting more fish spawn has never hurt a steelhead run, and you can take that to the bank.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#435097 - 05/19/08 03:58 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Todd]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
Amen to that Todd.

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#435102 - 05/19/08 04:17 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
I can tell you exactly why ODFW is considering changing the rule back to a limited harvest.
And that is a very vocal C&R advocacy group convinced the Fish Commission to resend the retention rule, knowing full well there was no biological reason for a C&R only fishery.
It would appear that this is nothing but a backlash reaction by those that oppose a nonbiologcal decision.
Special interests have changed many fishing regulations in our state, this is just a grass roots effort to change it back to what the science said in the first place.
A one size fits all steelhead management concept is wrong, if the science is flawed then lets see where it's wrong and fix it, otherwise we need to go with what the majority of the fisheries sentients, not what one individual says.

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#435111 - 05/19/08 05:00 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: Illahee]
JJ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 203
Loc: redmond, WA
Noticed you failed to address where is your science behind saying the run is healthy and can handle a 75% harvest rate. You asked me a question to give you example of where the science if flawed I can't because there isn't ANY SCIENCE TO SUPPORT EITHER WAY. If there own biologist says that it isn't sustainable then no evidence will convince you.

So majority rules seems to be your idea of good fishery management. So if there is more support via letters, testimony, etc for CnR then you are OK with that being the law of the land?

Who was the one person that pushed this? THere were multiple individuals that supported this, multiple fishing and fish groups that support, support of many local guides. Etc.

Please show us the science that says this a good thing?

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#435118 - 05/19/08 05:37 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
Not at all, the science that is in place is peer reviewed.
75% harvest rate? I don't think so, hook and line fisheries are not nearly that efficient, where did that number come from?
So other than what one bio said, there's nothing to suggest that the biological opinion is flawed.
If what you are suggesting as to the health of these stocks, why are they not being listed as threatened?
Seems like if they are as weak as you want us to believe, then they should already be listed, but they are not.

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#435120 - 05/19/08 05:42 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: JJ]
floatinghat Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 387
Loc: West of Seattle

Freespool,

Can you tell me why retention is a good thing without the science to support anything, let alone a kill fishery? One thing to remember is ODFW reminded us a few years ago about the record springer returns on the Columbia. They for got to mention it was Post Dams, oops for the historical estimates were 16-17million fish not close to the new "record" 1 million. Why risk something that can never be replaced?

BTW, I have no issue wacking the right fish.


Edited by floatinghat (05/19/08 05:45 PM)

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#435122 - 05/19/08 05:53 PM Re: Umpqua wild steelhead need help [Re: floatinghat]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3776
Who is saying ODFW doesn't have a sound biological opinion on native harvest? So far it's one biologist, I need more information regarding the in place opinion.
I just want to know what is flawed about it.

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