Hi guys, My name is David Grix and I am the VP of Fishing For Freedom - http://fishingforfreedom.net . I saw your thread on the CCA. The CCA tells their members whatever they want them to believe in Florida. I ONLY have a problem with that when it disregards the truth. For years I've been warning Florida Sportfishing Anglers that the CCA wants a "catch and release ONLY fishery." And for those years I was scoffed at simply because I am a commercial fisherman. If you never want to eat a fish, well, the CCA is heading down that path and might be for you. I said "might." It depends on your patriotism and love for our laws in this country in my OPINION. The CCA's true colors are finally being exposed to their members... and about 1/2 of them (from what I can tell) are not very happy about it. Simply research whether or not I am telling the truth and make up your own mind. Don't follow lemmings off the cliff! Because someone belongs to an organization doesn't make them right or an authority. The truth is straight and narrow, and that is all I offer. I have come against my own industry when it is wrong.

To those who think the CCA brought back the redfish by banning the nets in Florida, look at the true statistics that are posted on my site in the link below. The truth is obtainable from the NMFS by anyone that wants to research whether or not I... or the CCA... is telling the truth. I have posted where you can find the truth. What more can I do? Truth be known, we had a hard time AVOIDING catching redfish when the CCA wanted to ban their capture. Most commercial net fishermen in Florida wanted NOTHING to do with capturing the useless and not very valuable redfish. But hey, the CCA was able to buffalo the public into believing whatever they wanted because the newspaper writers were beholden to them...And their alleged cause gave them a name and made them look good to certain individuals and groups.

http://fishingforfreedom.net/The-CCA-Redfish-Their-Symbol-Exposed

Remember, the redfish IS THE SYMBOL of the CCA.

I care about our resource no matter who is fishing. If the data controlling your sportfishing or my $20K per year commercial fishing is flawed, I'll point it out. (Much to the dismay of the CCA) Example below...

http://fishingforfreedom.net/CCA-Helps-R...dustry-s-Throat

Click on the CCA Board of Directors in the link below. Walter Fondren (Exxon) is the oil baron. I have nothing against Exxon or their profits, but I do take exception when those profits are used to destroy lives and our democracy.

http://www.capitalresearch.org/search/orgdisplay.html?org=CCA300

Then click on Grant Information >

By the way, "Reliant" and the "Fondren Foundation" are part of the oil industry money that aren't as visable as the companies like "BP."

What happened in Florida is the CCA came in and destroyed our net fishing culture with a lot of false information. Almost every scientist in Florida will tell you that the CCA information was not correct and that they had almost every species under control and on the increase... So be it. THAT is the PAST.

NOW... HERE IS WHAT YOU, YES YOU... MUST BE AWARE OF... Once the CCA get their foot in the door in a state, they (with their money and power) manage to take control of government and DUE PROCESS by helping to create anti-American types of dictatorial environmental management based solely on "politics." Example: The CCA helped create the FWC in Florida... A constitutional body of 7 appointed individuals that make rules that can not be challenged no matter how absurd. They are NOT under the control of the Executive, Legislative or Judicial Branch of our government... There are NO checks and balances over their authority, It IS happening in America! Watch the video below to observe an example of FWC rules that can NOT be challenged in any way... PS I injected some humor for watchability and understanding for the common citizen, but the entire 35 minute court video is available on our FFF site.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sBJem9WDHug

NEXT...AND THIS IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU... When a completely "GREEN" governor takes office, he is allowed fire the 7 other political appointees from other regimes and appoint new commissioners. If he appoints only 4 new "green" commissioners, they can stop all fishing, diving (and hunting -though I am not a hunter) and there would be NOTHING the public could do about it. That includes recreational catch and release fishing too.

The CCA controls and supports this type of political management. We have documented, written proof that the CCA has lobbied and is against Constitutional Due Process. And as of right now, we have NO constitutional due process because of the CCA's power over Florida's government. Imagine YOUR life completely ruled by a commission beholden to the CCA with NO avenue to appeal rules that devastate the environment, economy and citizens? THAT is where we are at now. Watch that "funny," yet serious, youtube video a paragraph above to get a glimpse of what I am speaking of.

Many state governmental fishery managers have contacted me about the CCA entering their state and spreading lies. They are searching for ways to combat the lies. It is that bad.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that most of you have an open mind and care about what the truth is. If you have any questions, just E-mail me and I'll answer to the best of my ability with the FACTS.

I am beholden to God. Best wishes, and happy fishing! Don't let what has happened to us in Florida happen to you in the NE. Live free, stay free and die free. Dave Grix VP Fishing For Freedom

What happened in Florida is that you guys were netting for mullet and porgys ect.... and killing thousands of juvenile redfish, snook, mangrove snapper, sea trout, blue crab, pinfish, pufferfish,( I could go on ). I saw this first hand in the Indian and Bannana rivers and near the beaches from Port Canaveral to Sebastian Inlet. I wont make any assumptions and will just go with what I have seen first hand. When the nets were in fishing really started to stink, numbers of redfish, and snook as well as other fish mentioned started to drop off dramatically. Shortly after the nets were removed the fish populations started to come back and fishing improved. I dont think you are really giving everyone the whole story man. BTW bag limits in Florida are very similar to Washingtons. There are slot limits on size and small bag limits for most species. I think that things have gotten so bad here that most of us are already participating in catch and release and would be happy to continue to do so. We have more issues to deal with than commercial fishing in this part of the country so things are a little different here than in Florida. -T

I am beholden to God. Best wishes, and happy fishing! Don't let what has happened to us in Florida happen to you in the NE. Live free, stay free and die free. Dave Grix VP Fishing For Freedom [/quote]

Real personal there...we're NW there bud.

Interesting to get the opinion of somebody in a state where CCA has been around awhile. Thanks. I'm not knocking your post at all, but a few things came to mind at first glance.


Wouldn't be all that bad, considering we're headed for NO fisheries in the future.



Newspapers here are currently beholden to the indian tribes. According to the papers in our area, the tribes are the saviors of the environment. Those who see how the tribes harvest, sell, and waste fish and game know better. And before anyone jumps on me for it, I'm not saying what the CCA can or can't do about tribal issues.



That's bad? It beats the net fishers destroying your fish populations.



We have scientists from the state and tribes saying a lot of things. Many times they don't add up. Fisheries get netted to death and we're told it's bad ocean conditions that caused the low returns.



I suppose it would be similar to a commission beholden to commercial and tribal netters, only better.



Many state governmental fishery managers have led us to this point.

It was so nice of you to warn us who live in the NE about cca. US in the NE have so much in common with you in Florida. Us with our fishing poles and you with your nets.

After several overturned decisions, Florida residents passed a constitutional amendment to ban the nets, by a margin of 75-85% voter approval and those cannot be overturned by a judge. The people have spoken and that is democracy.


You remind me of Ryan O'neil in Paper Moon. You would fit right in with the traveling gypsies, who travel around *&^%$&* people out of their insurance check for rebuilding their homes.

Right on guys. That guy is full of it.

Awesome string of rebuttals, cupo!

You saved me a lot of typing!

Gosh a commercial netter doesn't like CCA. Talk about a great endorsment!

The messanger has been killed.

If you look around some there are other non-commercial entities who have the some of the same feelings as our visitor from Florida. But if you dont look, you wont have to think about it. For some,Its easier that way.

Reminds me of Pandora's box. Who knows whats going to pop out once the lid opens!

Perhaps an STD?

[quote=Dave FFF VP]Hi guys, My name is David Grix And for those years I was scoffed at simply because I am a commercial fisherman.

This is where I stopped reading your post.

fp= member of CCA

Elkrun, If you cant tell the difference between killing and discrediting, its no wonder you're still trying to save us from ourselves. Fifteen other states already opened the box and pandora wasn't anywhere around.

By the way, how did your Y2K disaster campaign work out?

Hi TBJ,

If you notice, I stated the nets we used were in the past... 10 years ago. Fishing, by the way, is actually worse in Florida, though the CCA promised that people would be able to scoop up fish in baskets 7 years after the so-called net ban.

As far as your statement... "What happened in Florida is that you guys were netting for mullet and porgys ect.... and killing thousands of juvenile redfish, snook, mangrove snapper, sea trout, blue crab, pinfish, pufferfish..." I'm not surprised, guides are in the business for their own reasons. I bet you make slightly more than 20K per year. My earnings should tell you why I am in this fray. It's not for my own good, I'm in it for the environment, economy, citizens and the principles our country was founded upon.

I must take exception to your references about nets, which are the exact same as others I read for years on CCA posts. My nets NEVER caught juvenile fish because the mesh (hole) sizes were large... Thus juvenile fish escaped everytime. I never caught a snook because they busted through the webbing, leaving holes. I never caught mangrove snapper because they lived near structure, not the beach sands I fished. I caught sea trout when they were legal, but never caught them when they were prohibited. I, like most fishermen, know where the trout lived. Bluecrab was an extremely rare catch, though there are millions down here. Pinfish were a rare catch in large mesh nets until the CCA (in 1997 to date) encouraged the FWC to make the meshes on a net a maximum of 2" stretch. (1" square.) I've never seen a puffer fish captured in a net.

The absolute truth is... and you can witness it for yourself in the courtroom video I placed for all to see on my site, the CCA & FWC have intentionally forced Florida Fishermen to use nets with 1" square holes that capture 98% juvenile fish. That's 98% wasted resource. The FWC's own tests (actual documents are on my site) and the court room video is irrefutable. Men throughout this state are CURRENTLY forced to capture ALL of the fish you mentioned (except maybe those puffer fish) and unnecessarily kill and waste all of those fish you mentioned because they are all juvenile fish. Insane? If you have any logic within, the only conclusion a logical person can derive from this is that the FWC and the CCA are insane. Simply watch the video and if you can't see the insanity, then there is no reasoning with you. If you can see what is happening in front of you, then you aren't blind or a "lemming."

The so-called gill nets that supposedly wiped all life out of the sea (CCA Claim) were more selective than any gear invented. My by-catch with a large mesh net was only 2%... Yes, 2%. The CCA/FWC turned that net into a 98% by-catch waste machine, and continue to fight to keep that environmentally disasterous standard. (See video)

To those of you who mock my description of how the CCA have entered our state and have taken over the resource, well, that's your poragative. But, if it happens to you, don't say you weren't warned.

Those of you who have any sense of fairness, judge me by the content of my message. Anyone that hates someone simply because he is a commercial fisherman (and I've seen it in posts for 10 years) will be blind to the truth anyway.

By the way, on my site is the actual tests using a 2" CCA backed net versus a 3" net that we proposed was the minimum size hole. As you can clearly see, the CCA backed 2" net had a 98% by-catch rate while killing many of the species the writer I just responded to claimed were killed in the past. The 3" net set side by side had only a 2% by-catch rate... Just like the nets I fished in the past had. So which net makes sense? This is the truth. One thing I've learned about the rabid Koolaide drinking CCA'ers is that when confronted with the facts, the next thing they do is to call me names.

If you like catch and release... as most guides do, here's some food for thought. (BY THE WAY, I'M NOT AGAINST ANYONE'S WAY OF FISHING IF THE RESOURCE IS NOT IN DANGER OR UNNECESSARILY KILLED AND WASTED) Is there anything really CONSERVATIVE about a catch and release fishery? Fossil fuel is used simply for someone to feel a fish struggle on the end of a line, then let it go without benefit. On top of that, there is a mortality rate on caught and released fish. Some fish like the snook (Florida Sportfish) have a 30-35% catch and release mortality rate. Think about it. Most guide don't want to because they make a great amount of money working their business. That's just something to think about. I am not condeming the practice... My feelings are as long as there is a forever sustainable harvest or fishery, live and let live.

In Florida we are restricted to two 500 square feet of mesh area nets. (A combined total pile of netting that is of 37 yards long by 3 yards deep.) Who out there really has a problem with that size of net to make a commercial living with? And we aren't fighting for MORE net, just nets that don't unnecessarily kill and waste 98% of the resource.

Dave

Thanks for your post Dave FFF,
As far as my income goes it is really none of your business but I have a full time job that pays alot more than you assumed my annual income is. I am new to guiding and do it part time because I enjoy sharing my passion for fishing for the PNW's Salmon and Steelhead with others. Guiding is not nor will probably ever be my primary source of income. I now reside in Washington but as you can probably guess have lived and fished in East Central Florida. I make semi annual trips there to fish for Snook and Flounder at Sebastian inlet and Grouper and Snapper out of Sebastian, Fort Myers and the Dry Tortugas. I have found that despite growing numbers of anglers that the fishing is quite good. As far as the legitimacy of your claims I call it like I see it. Good Luck-TBJ

Why is it that some new guy can come on here or anywhere and profess to be some kind of an expert in how we should do things here and everyone gives this person credence? Just because one can copy and paste certain quotes and press releases it suddenly makes them an expert. We know nothing about this person,he has no history here and professes to be some kind of advocate. Beware of any entity or person that says that they can solve all of our problems, we have been fed this line from the WDFW,Tribes,Commercials and politicians. They have always won here by creating dissension, dividing us and creating distrust amongst ourselves and that is how they have always won in the past.
Remember we are CCA and we vote on how it proceeds here, we at least get a say in our own direction. This would be the first time since I have lived here that we could actually have some power in making the decisions here.

It’s pretty funny to see a netter sour at CCA.

I grew up in Texas. If you went out 30+ miles, 27 years ago, you might see a king mackerel or two, fishing all day, and that’s if you were lucky. Same with the red drum.

Same with the red snapper…all netted to death and we rarely saw $hit. That was fishing with my dad’s best friend who knew how to fish very well…just no fish. I can’t tell you how many days we came home with not one fish.

Three summers ago, I put two newbies on 7 king mackerel (5 of the 7 released) in less than 45 minutes, 8-9 miles out. This is the rule now, not the exception and applies to just about every fish in the Gulf including Red Snapper. Sight casting to Redfish on the flats is a blast. You can have 15 plus fish on in a day and that's on the fly. I never would have believed it since they were very few and very far between when I was growing up.

CCA was instrumental in this recovery.

Sorry dude…you’re probably on the list for handouts from the government… “Well, we netted all the fish, there ain’t none left and we can’t make no living.”

I know habitat is a huge part here too and I’m on that boat but boy, as one example, 120,000 chinook as by-catch in Alaska Pollock nets sucks.

Ed

Cupo!!

I owe you a beer!

Cheers!

Pretty ballsy for a netter to come onto this board and expect a sympathetic ear.

That's like a Weyerhauser shill showing up at an ELF meeting.

Did you really read that before you hit "submit"? That is 100% EXACTLY what the CCA backers are doing...exactly that, to a "T"...

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, if you are going to quote someone please do it right, seems like you left something out on purpose to suit your own ends. You and the gillnetter could be in the same boat, the way you go on and on, like a broken record. Ok I have vented now, have a nice day.

Vent away...

Group or entity that's going to solve all our problems? Do I really need to find the fifty or so quotes from the new CCA members who say this?

"Experts" who read CCA press releases? Touting a "list of wins" that they know nothing about, other than it is a list, and it's on the CCA website.

No history here, professes to be our advocate? Never been here before, has no track record or history here, but is here to solve all of our problems.

Divisive, distrust? I think the whole bunch of the "You're either with us, or against us!" and "If you're not a part of the CCA, you're part of the problem!" crowd has got that one handled up very nicely.

The fact that a CCA member could actually say that stuff about some other group or person frankly is hilarious...is there a complete and utter lack of any self-reflection or recognition going on here?

Fish on...

Todd